Need an opinion from the collective

[SavageOne]

Hello AnandTech Community,
Well its that time of the decade where I have no choice but to get another PC because my 2001 AMD Compaq Presario 5000t is really showing its age. I wanted to build a new PC earlier this year but classes really stressed me out. This will be my first PC build from scratch and I am not sure about a couple of things. I just need some opinions, ideas and constructive criticism on my build. I am unsure about how well my Motherboard, PSU, and GPU choice is, so if anyone has any good alternative let me know. I want to spend around $1000 but I can go up to around $1500, so far this build is going to cost me at the most $1200 without rebates, so I am okay with it.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Mostly Gaming (orange box, emulators, some other current games and maybe I will get back into WOW) until it gets dated, trying to mess around with Photoshop, graphic modeling, AutoCAD, some programming, Also at times I can be a heavy a multitasker but I don't think a quad is worth it yet unless some one can convince me its good, also im not going vista yet maybe later
2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
preferably $1000 can go a little higher
3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA, Newegg.com (heard good things) and xoxide.com (anyone have experience with this site? How are they?)
4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc, etc, etc, you get the picture.
I wanna try out nVidia and Intel cuz my last PC was a AMD and so is my brothers laptop with a ATI graphics card
5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
Only 22in Westinghouse wide-screen monitor ($167 Black Friday) and Sony surround sound speakers (free friend gave me)
6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
Many threads on here as well as other forums and youtube videos
7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Not right away but I wanna leave the door open if I do consider it

Here is what I am looking at:

Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115037 $189.99 - no rebate

Motherboard - ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813127030 $179.99 - $149.99 after $30.00 Mail-In
(leaning towards this)

Ram Memory - Patriot Viper 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820220293 $94.99 - $79.99 after $15.00 Mail-In
(leaning towards this)

OR

Ram Memory - CORSAIR XMS2 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145194 $109.00 - $79.00 after $30.00 Mail-In

OR

Motherboard Choice #2 - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059 $109.99 - no rebate

Ram Memory - mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820146785 $134.99 - $114.99 after $20.00 Mail-In

OR

Ram Memory - OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227289 $125.99 - $100.99 after $25.00 Mail-In

Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136073 $79.99 - no rebate


Graphics Card - EVGA 01G-P3-N816-AR GeForce 8800GT AKIMBO 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130351 $262.99 - $232.99 after $30.00 Mail-In
(leaning towards this)

OR

EVGA 640-P2-N824-AR GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130327 $224.99 - $194.99 after $30.00 Mail-In


Power Supply Unit - KINGWIN ABT-600MA1S ATX 12V Ver.2.2 600W SLI Certified Modular Power Supply 115 - 120 / 200-240 Vac - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817121012 $114.99 - no rebate
(is this overkill?)

Power Supply Unit - Rosewill RP550V2-D-SL L 550W SLI Ready-ATX12V V2.01 Dual Fans Power Supply 115/230 V CSA,UL,TUV,FCC - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817182030 $59.99 - no rebate


Case - Raidmax Sagitta 2 Case - Black/Blue
http://www.xoxide.com/raidmax-saggita-2-case.html $79.99 - no rebate

Thermal Compound - Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835100007 $5.99 - no rebate


CPU Cooling fans - ZEROtherm ZEN FZ120 120mm CPU Cooler - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835887016 $39.99 - no rebate

OR

Thermaltake Blue Orb II CPU Cooler
http://www.xoxide.com/thermalt...orb-ii-cpu-cooler.html $39.49 - no rebate
(leaning towards this, is the site realiable?)

Keyboard - Super Slim Acrylic Illuminated Keyboard - Black
http://www.xoxide.com/supersli...um-keyboard-black.html $16.99 - no rebate
(anything better for a low price range?)

Mouse - OCZ Equalizer Laser Gaming Mouse
http://www.xoxide.com/ocz-equalizer-mouse.html $34.99 - no rebate
(anyone know anything better for the same price range?)

DVD Burner - LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R Cache SATA DVD Burner with LightScribe - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827106072 $37.99 - no rebate

I am really unsure about how much power I will need and what to really look for in a GPU so if anyone could help me out I will be very greatful and Thanks for all the help guys.

P.S. Sorry its so long. Oh and does anyone know what the thing is called that connects two towers to one monitor, mouse, and keyboard. Thanks!

 

[DSF]

1. No need for DDR2-1066. If you really want to leave the door open to max out your chip, DDR2-1000 is all you need, and it'll save you some money as opposed to 1066.

2. Deciding between the IP35-Pro and DS3L comes down to features. Do you need the second PCI-e slot? Not from what I can tell. Extra SATA ports/RAID? Not really. The DS3L is probably the better use of your money, but that's not to say there's anything wrong with the IP35.

3. That's too much to pay for an 8800GT when they can be had for as low as $150 nowadays. The 640MB is the older version of the 8800GTS which is slower than the 8800GT. If you buy an 8800GTS you want the 512MB version. (Confused yet?)

4. Kingwin and Rosewill aren't the most reliable power supply brands. 450-500W is all you need, and good brands include Corsair, Seasonic, Antec, OCZ and Coolermaster. Even within a brand not all models are of the same quality though, so make sure you're getting a good one. (Just about all Seasonics and Corsairs are good.) Buy.com tends to have the best deals on PSUs a lot of the time, especially if you're a first-time Google Checkout user.

5. You may want to consider the 640GB version of the WD Caviar for only $20 more.

 

[SavageOne]

Thanks for the info DSF, so on the IP35-Pro can I add another video card for SLI? also doesn't the DS3L require DDR2-1066 because on the specs it says memory standard so I thought it would only use that. Same with the DDR2-800 on IP35-Pro. Also for the IP35-Pro's SATA is their a limit to the amount of Hard Drives connected (not raid, just more stoarge). Sorry I didn't know the gts is an older model compared to the gt but why is the one with the less MB better (kinda confused here LOL) clock speed? bit transfer rate? So how is the GPU below?

EVGA 768-P3-N968-TR GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB 192-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130362
$159.99 - $149.99 after $10.00 Mail-In

Not exactly sure what too look for in a GPU clock speed? MB? or stream processor.
or this one (sorry I haven't kept up to date with graphics cards)

EVGA 512-P3-N861-AR GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130334
$149.99 - $139.99 after $10.00 Mail-In

The names they give confuse me sometimes (GT, GTX, GTS). Lol the power supplies have been deactivated and what do i need to look for in a PSU? (Like what makes it good and what makes it worthless) How could I have missed the 640 GB verison for $20 more gonna get that. I am gonna place my order for some of the stuff tonight and I will update the list in a bit.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: SavageOne
Thanks for the info DSF, so on the IP35-Pro can I add another video card for SLI? also doesn't the DS3L require DDR2-1066 because on the specs it says memory standard so I thought it would only use that. Same with the DDR2-800 on IP35-Pro. Also for the IP35-Pro's SATA is their a limit to the amount of Hard Drives connected (not raid, just more stoarge).

The limit to the number of hard drives that can be connected is simply the number of available SATA ports. (Minus however many you need for your optical drives.) As far as the memory issue, the memory standard is simply the highest memory speed the board is guaranteed to be able to use. I wish they wouldn't include it in the motherboard specs, or at least state it in a clearer fashion, because it's a source of great confusion for new builders.

Edit: By the way, the second PCI-e slot won't let you use SLI. SLI is only available on motherboards with Nvidia chipsets. Given your budget and the fact that you're playing on a 22" monitor though, I wouldn't even consider it. It's not going to be worth the money.

If you want to leave the door open for overclocking, DDR2-800 has enough headroom to potentially take your chip up to 3.6GHz. DDR2-1000 would take the chip as far as it will go - in the neighborhood of 4 Ghz depending on the exact chip.

Since you're open to overclocking though, I would consider going with the E7200. It will overclock past 3.0Ghz, and some people are going as high as 3.8 Ghz with it. It will save you around $70 over the E8400.

Originally posted by: SavageOneSorry I didn't know the gts is an older model compared to the gt but why is the one with the less MB better (kinda confused here LOL) clock speed? bit transfer rate?

The short answer is that you can't compare things like clock speed except between video cards of the same model. Add into this the fact that different games run better on different cards, and it can be difficult (impossible really) to simply look at a card's specs and decide which is the best.

What you want to do is go by reviews and benchmarks which give you an idea of how well the card performs in real-world situations.

The 8800GT and the 512MB version of the 8800GTS are based on a newer core than the old 8800GTS. It's built with smaller transistors, which has several effects on the processor. First, they can pack more transistors onto the chip to either make it more powerful (which they did) or introduce other functions (like some video decoding features, which they did). Second, the chip can do more work with less power, since the smaller transistors require less energy to switch.

That's why the newer 8800GTS is faster even though it has less RAM.

Originally posted by: SavageOne
EVGA 768-P3-N968-TR GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB 192-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130362
$159.99 - $149.99 after $10.00 Mail-In

Not exactly sure what too look for in a GPU clock speed? MB? or stream processor.
or this one (sorry I haven't kept up to date with graphics cards)

EVGA 512-P3-N861-AR GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130334
$149.99 - $139.99 after $10.00 Mail-In

Not that either of those cards is bad, but an 8800GT or 8800GTS should be faster. On a 22" monitor I'd want to have one of the beefier cards.

Originally posted by: SavageOne
Lol the power supplies have been deactivated and what do i need to look for in a PSU? (Like what makes it good and what makes it worthless) How could I have missed the 640 GB verison for $20 more gonna get that. I am gonna place my order for some of the stuff tonight and I will update the list in a bit.

There are some great stickied threads in the PSU Forum that will give you a primer on PSU features. You want one that meets the newest specification, ATX 12V v2.2. Buying an ATX 12V PSU from a quality manufacturer like Seasonic or Corsair will ensure that you have all of the other features/protections you need.

For a setup like yours you don't need more than about 500W. The highest I'd shoot is probably the Corsair 520HX. It has modular cables, which allow you to only plug in the power connectors that you need. The rest can be stored elsewhere, so it reduces clutter in the case, especially for a build like yours that doesn't need much besides a PCI-e power connector and a couple SATA connections. If you don't want to pay the extra cost for modular, the Corsair 450VX or 550VX, Seasonic 430W or 500W, or Antec Earthwatts 430W or 500W would all be fine choices. There are some good units in that price/power output range from OCZ and Coolermaster as well.

Buy.com tends to have the best prices on power supplies.

 

[s44]

The 9600GSO is the same as the 8800GS, which is a cut-down 8800GT. Confused yet?

You should probably wait a few days and get the 4850, though.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: s44
The 9600GSO is the same as the 8800GS, which is a cut-down 8800GT. Confused yet?

You should probably wait a few days and get the 4850, though.

He brings up a good point that I forgot to mention. New video cards are going to be released in the next week or so, and one of ATI's offerings may best Nvidia's current cards at a similar price point.

 

[SavageOne]

Thanks for the info guys. I am going to stick with the E8400 for now because I am not 100% sure I am overclocking. Good to know the standard Ram is not the limit on the motherboard. Is the 4850 a radeon? is it compatible with intel chips and mobos? I will be ordering the basic stuff tonight case, HD, DVD, etc. Is the 8800GT/S price gonna drop with the release of the 4850? Thanks again for the info and I will have my specs posted up in a little while.

Edit: Just looking around but what is the difference from these two boards? except for the solid capacitor

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128337

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059

 

[mancunian]

The difference is that the top one is newer and has energy saving features, and I believe a BIOS has just been released for it that fixes a few bugs, while the bottom one is older but a proven overclocker.

I'm running a P35 DS3L with an E7200 @ 3.4Ghz, very slight voltage increase. I just checked the CPU fan speed, 333 rpm. These chips run COOL, which means this machine is also very quiet.

I'd save a bit of cash and go for an E7200, they're supreme chips, and very cool running ones too.

 

[SavageOne]

Here is an update of my build

Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115037 $189.99 - no rebate

Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059 $109.99 - no rebate

Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136073 $79.99 - no rebate

Optical Drive - LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R Cache SATA DVD Burner with LightScribe - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827106072 $37.99 - no rebate

Ram - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145
$84.99 - no rebate

GPU - EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130318
$169.99 - $10 Mail-in

PSU - CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX 520W ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC Class B, TUV, CCC, C-tick - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...01&Tpk=Corsair%2b520HX
$119.99 - $99.99 after $20.00 Mail-In

Case - Raidmax Sagitta 2 Case - Black/Blue http://www.xoxide.com/raidmax-saggita-2-case.html $79.99 - no rebate

Thermal Compound - Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835100007 $5.99 - no rebate

Thermaltake Blue Orb II CPU Cooler
http://www.xoxide.com/thermalt...orb-ii-cpu-cooler.html $39.49 - no rebate

Keyboard - Super Slim Acrylic Illuminated Keyboard - Black
http://www.xoxide.com/supersli...um-keyboard-black.html $16.99 - no rebate

Mouse - OCZ Equalizer Laser Gaming Mouse
http://www.xoxide.com/ocz-equalizer-mouse.html $34.99 - no rebate

Total = 970.38 after rebates 940.38 + shipping/tax

Let me know if i am forgetting anything. Is the GPU okay? and PSU? And I am going to wait a week before I order my GPU in case there is any price drop.
Thanks for the info Mancunian

 

[DSF]

DDR2-1066 is a waste of money. DDR2-1000 is just as good and will cost around $20-30 less.

The PSU you chose isn't bad per se, but it's slightly outdated in terms of the way it distributes current across its various rails. The power that a PSU puts out is divided along 3.3V, 5V and 12V lines. High amperage on the 12V rails is becoming increasingly important. The PSU you chose has one 12V rail that can deliver up to 14A and one that goes up to 15A. That's a total of 29A, but it may not be able to supply all of that at the same time.

Something like the Corsair 520HX can supply up to 40A on its 12V rails. In the short term it's not going to be an issue. Nvidia recommends a PSU that can put out 24A on the 12V for the 8800GT, but in reality you probably won't even need that much. A slightly beefier power supply will simply put you in better shape for the future if you anticipate upgrading the video card down the road.

So the short answer is, if I'm going to buy a 500W PSU that's not the one I'd pick. But it won't hurt anything.

I'm also not sure of your choice of CPU cooler. What led you to that one?

 

[SavageOne]

OOPS Meant to put up the DDR2-1000 Ram going to edit it out and I am going to keep looking for a better PSU, I just saw that one on the attention to system builder thread and thought it might be good. I see what you mean about the rails. Also I forgot to ask the windows xp they sell on newegg is it only for one build? or many builds because i don't know if they want to use the "for system builders" line to throw people off.

Edit: forgot to ask is my GPU okay? And about the fan I don't know how I came to the conclusion but I thought it would do. Any problems?

Edit: I am gonna go with the PSU you suggested DSF, the Corsair looks really good. gonna update the build list.

 

[mancunian]

Originally posted by: SavageOne
Thanks for the info Mancunian

No probs mate, you're welcome.

I'd go with DSF's recommendations, especially with the Corsair PSU. I'm also running one of those, the VX550, and it's a super PSU. 41 amps on its 12v rail and very quiet. The thing just purrs along.

I've actually also got that Western Digital drive and while it seems fast enough, it's noisier than the Seagates I have. You might want to look into a Seagate drive, they're pretty solid while also being rather quiet.

You *should* be good for 4Ghz with the E8400 and Gigabyte board though. :thumbsup:


Happy building!

 

[SavageOne]

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it. I am going to put the order in tonight. The noise on Western Digital Hard Drives doesn't bother me much. Do you know what is meant by the "for system builders" version of Windows XP on Newegg (does it mean it can be used on more then one pc). Also any links or ideas about what to do after I have the PC built but before I install the OS, like bios setup or anything else in between I may need to know. This is my first build so I would like to have a reference just in case.

 

[DSF]

I believe for system builders means it's an OEM copy that ties itself to your motherboard when you install it. It shouldn't really be an issue as long as you only plan on keeping it on the one machine. If your motherboard dies and needs to be replaced (or if you upgrade your computer) you should be able to reactivate it with a call to Microsoft.

 

[SavageOne]

Ah I see thanks a lot I will post pictures of my build as soon I get it done.

 

[SavageOne]

Hey whats up guys, got my pc build done. Here are some pictures of it. Thanks for all the help.

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[SavageOne]

Hey whats up guys, got my pc build done. Here are some pictures of it. Thanks for all the help.

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[DaveSimmons]

:thumbsup: good job, you probably saved at least $500 over buying prebuilt from someone like Alienware, and when eventually some part gets too slow for you it will be easy to upgrade.