Need an education in car audio

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm thinking of upgrading my 2005 Impala OEM car stereo. I'm not current on what's out there so I don't know what to expect to pay or what's good and what's trash. I do not need my teeth rattled. I listen to classical to rock so fidelity is important. I'd like to connect my droid x for pandora. Satellite radio I don't need. Suggestions for equipment/sites for learning more?

 

[MotF Bane]

Crutchfield. You input your car, they'll show you a list of compatible equipment, and have details on what each unit can do - such as plugging in an auxiliary device, et cetera. You may find your speakers are limiting you; I really don't know on that. Again, Crutchfield will show what speakers will fit your car too.

 

[Pulsar]

For speakers, you'll want to make sure that yours have significant overlap in the frequencies they are best at. Don't believe the literature as to what frequencies they drop off at etc, look for the actual graphs showing what their responses are, then make sure the mixture of speakers you choose cover the full range and have similar DB ratings for those ratings (because your deck will likely power them equally so you'll want similar volume levels from all of them). Then you can use the EQ on your deck to make up for any inadequacies in how they sound.

Remember. Start with good speakers. You can't fix bad speakers with a good deck, but a bad deck will still sound pretty good with good speakers.

If you're not interested in boom, I'd suggest 8" subwoofers. They take a lot less volume than 10's and don't require near the power.

 

[kornphlake]

What are you really looking for? Features or sound quality, the budget for features can be pretty small, to get good sound quality you'll need a much larger budget. A headunit with lots of features will run $200-300, you'll probably think an aftermarket headunit sounds better than the factory even if you don't replace the speakers. Adding a power amp and aftermarket speakers will really make music come to life but you'll have to double or triple the budget. A sub, setup properly, won't really do much if you listen mostly to music recorded before 1980, there isn't much content below 40hz, a good set of 6.5" speakers should play down near 40hz after accounting for cabin gain. If you like boomy obnoxious bass a subwoofer will get you that sound, but it doesn't appear that is your goal.

Are you planning on doing the installation yourself? What kind of budget do you have?

 

[mvbighead]

Just bought this one myself (haven't yet received it though):

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MEX-BT280...0192333&sr=1-1

Has built in bluetooth for wireless streaming of music from the phone, as well as hands free calling. Least expensive unit I could find with Bluetooth actually built in, and actually not any more expensive than ones I was looking at without Bluetooth. Should work well with your Droid I'd be willing to bet.

 

[96Firebird]

It sounds like he just wants a new head unit, but if you want a whole system...

-Pioneer/Apline/Eclipse head unit
-6 3/4" (oversized 6.5") coaxials (Infinity, Pioneer, Polk Audio, Kicker, Focal)
--Upgrade to 6.5" components for some better sound (need to amp them)
-D-class amp for sub
--A/B class amp for components
-Good sub and box
-Sufficient wiring

Before I start naming brands for components and amps and subs, I would like to know if you want a complete system or just a head unit...

For basic knowledge on car audio, a must read: http://www.bcae1.com/

 

[mvbighead]

Also, Crutchfield is a very good suggestion to get you started... I just didn't wind up ordering from them because Amazon was $50 less expensive on the head unit, the steering wheel control unit was half as much as crutchfield, and the installation accessories we about $20 locally.

Definitely check prices if you find that you like something on Crutchfield, as their prices aren't always the best. But they do offer free shipping and free installation accessories on select head units, so keep that in mind before ordering something for $10 less elsewhere. Like I said, in my case, the difference was $50, so well worth ordering elsewhere. YMMV.

 

[KIAman]

For any good car audio system, the first thing you should address is the amplifier.

You can have the best head unit and speakers but the amplifier does the real job of improving your sound experience.

If you are on a budget, you can buy a decent amp and connect it to all your existing speakers and your HU and you will immediately notice a huge sound improvement.

Here would be my order of purchase

1. AMP for speakers
2. Head unit
3. AMP for subwoofers
4. Subwoofers

That way if my budget doesn't allow, I can at least enjoy the best benefit in relation to cost.

 

[96Firebird]

Yes, Crutchfield is expensive. However, I have heard that they're CS is great. I have never ordered from there so I cannot comment.

Some other good online retailers include...

www.sonicelectronix.com (got my subs from here)
www.woofersetc.com (got some accessories from here)
www.onlinecarstereo.com
www.knukonceptz.com (wiring, got mine from here)
www.ikesound.com

 

[mvbighead]

Yes, Crutchfield is expensive. However, I have heard that they're CS is great. I have never ordered from there so I cannot comment.

Some other good online retailers include...

www.sonicelectronix.com (got my subs from here)
www.woofersetc.com (got some accessories from here)
www.onlinecarstereo.com
www.knukonceptz.com (wiring, got mine from here)
www.ikesound.com

I've heard the exact same on Crutchfield. I was very close to ordering, but then saved a lot of money elsewhere. But as far as CS goes, sounds like they're top notch.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'd like to upgrade the entire system and am willing to spend in the 300s for the head unit alone and then whatever would go with it. I'd like to install it myself if practical.

 

[dpodblood]

One other thing about crutchfield: If your car has a non standard dash they will send you the dash kit and wiring harness for free along with the HU.

 

[Lotheron]

One other thing about crutchfield: If your car has a non standard dash they will send you the dash kit and wiring harness for free along with the HU.

This is not always the case, i'ts almost 200$ for mine since the entire bezel needs replaced and the OEM HU is tied into the HVAC as the beeps for the HVAC are played over the speakers. One of the main reasons I still have the OEM HU as any upgrade will likely cost me at least $400-500.

 

[96Firebird]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'd like to upgrade the entire system and am willing to spend in the 300s for the head unit alone and then whatever would go with it. I'd like to install it myself if practical.

I need a total for the whole system before I can recommend a head unit, but for now do you want DVD playback or just a single-DIN cd/mp3 player?

 

[kornphlake]

Pick a head unit from Pioneer, Alpine, Eclipse, Clarion, etc that has the features you want in your price range. I'd suggest good component speakers for the front and a set of coaxials for the rear, generally the top shelf head unit manufacturers don't make top shelf speakers, MB Quart, Focal and Rainbow are supposed to be the better sounding speakers, Boston Acoustics, Infinity, Polk and Kicker would be good, anything like Kenwood, or Pioneer I'd pass on. If possible you want the component tweeters to be mouonted roughly ear level and firing toward you (like a set of home stereo speakers) rather than firing into the windshield or towards the opposite side of the car. If you have factory component speakers you might not get the best placement possible, but it will look a lot cleaner to use the factory location.

I disagree with the above who claims the amp will make the sound good or bad, while a bargain basement amp may sound bad, an average or better amp should have lower distortion than the speakers. I'd personally put more money into good speakers if you have to choose one or the other. High end speakers will resolve details in the music you'd never know were there if you had a high end amp and average speakers. I'd pick a 2/3/4 channel amp with built in cross over. If you decide to add a subwoofer in the future you can power the rear speakers off the head unit and bridge the rear channels of the amp to power a small subwoofer.

If you choose to install an amp, be aware that the installation becomes several times more difficult, you'll have to pull wire for the speakers, power and signal cables, in some vehicles this is easy, in others it can be a challenge to do without making it look like a hack job.

 

[Pulsar]

Pick a head unit from Pioneer, Alpine, Eclipse, Clarion, etc that has the features you want in your price range. I'd suggest good component speakers for the front and a set of coaxials for the rear, generally the top shelf head unit manufacturers don't make top shelf speakers, MB Quart, Focal and Rainbow are supposed to be the better sounding speakers, Boston Acoustics, Infinity, Polk and Kicker would be good, anything like Kenwood, or Pioneer I'd pass on. If possible you want the component tweeters to be mouonted roughly ear level and firing toward you (like a set of home stereo speakers) rather than firing into the windshield or towards the opposite side of the car. If you have factory component speakers you might not get the best placement possible, but it will look a lot cleaner to use the factory location.

I disagree with the above who claims the amp will make the sound good or bad, while a bargain basement amp may sound bad, an average or better amp should have lower distortion than the speakers. I'd personally put more money into good speakers if you have to choose one or the other. High end speakers will resolve details in the music you'd never know were there if you had a high end amp and average speakers. I'd pick a 2/3/4 channel amp with built in cross over. If you decide to add a subwoofer in the future you can power the rear speakers off the head unit and bridge the rear channels of the amp to power a small subwoofer.

If you choose to install an amp, be aware that the installation becomes several times more difficult, you'll have to pull wire for the speakers, power and signal cables, in some vehicles this is easy, in others it can be a challenge to do without making it look like a hack job.

I wouldn't rule out any manufacturer based on name. I'd look at the frequency response graphs and give them a listen. This is where you WILL need to go in to your local stereo stops. Absolutely do not buy speakers without listening to them first or you will be disappointed. Also make sure what size enclosures they have them in (this matters even for smaller speakers like 6x9's) to insure yours is similar.

Korhphlake is absolutely right: an amp will not make anything sound better. The ONLY thing it can do is amplify the signal it is given: if that signal is noise, the amplified signal will be even more noisey. The signal is a function of your head deck. As I said, start with the speakers. That will give you the requirements for your head deck output. Then you'll know if you need an amp or if you can get a head deck that supplies the power you'll need.

Most head-decks provide decent signals now-adays. The only major differences are feature set, power and channel output, seperate subwoofer output, etc.

In the end, the majority of sound differences in your system are going to come from the speakers.

 

[CRXican]

I would start with a solid head unit and see how things sound. Made a big difference in my car.

 

[KIAman]

Sorry to all the car audio theorists that claim the amp has nothing to do with sound quality but you have to realize that if one is going to piecemeal the audio components, the amp will make the biggest difference in sound quality simply because the stock amp inside the head unit can barely drive even the crappy paper speakers in most stock systems.

You can upgrade the speakers to nice components and exotic materials but almost all of them will have a reduced efficiency compared to a paper cone and will further the cost of watts required to drive them correctly. Yes, the sound quality will increase but you will never be able to turn the volume past half without distortion.

Speaking of distortion, the majority of it is NOT generated by the source unless it doesn't have preamp outputs. The head unit will have something called the SNR ratio and even crappy stock HU have enough to not produce noticeable noise to the preamps. The most noticeable distortion comes from the amp producing a square wave where the peaks are litteraly cut off. The others come from the speakers being pushed with too much power which bottom out.

If the OP is piece-mealing his installation, he will get the most bang for the buck in sound quality by going with an AMP, then headunit, then speakers. Changing out speakers only will produce clean sound at a low volume. Changing out a headunit will offer more features but won't make a difference in the actual sound output. Changing the AMP will clean up the sound at ALL volumes.

If he decides to go the whole shebang, then it won't really matter which components he purchases first as the installation will happen all at once.

 

[96Firebird]

Speaking of distortion, the majority of it is NOT generated by the source unless it doesn't have preamp outputs. The head unit will have something called the SNR ratio and even crappy stock HU have enough to not produce noticeable noise to the preamps. The most noticeable distortion comes from the amp producing a square wave where the peaks are litteraly cut off. The others come from the speakers being pushed with too much power which bottom out.

And this has nothing to do with the quality of the amp, it has to do with setting the gain correctly. And if you are running the speakers of the head unit, the quality of the head unit. All head units will distort the signal at a certain volume. So if gain is set correctly on the amp, and the volume is kept below that distorted volume, the amp only outputs an amplified signal.

And good luck running an OEM head unit with an amp. All this talk about noise, this will introduce even more noise into the signal. LOCs are not a good way to get sound quality...

So, head unit first to get the pre-amp outputs, set gains correctly on the amps and you have a good setup.

 

[kornphlake]

Sorry to all the car audio theorists that claim the amp has nothing to do with sound quality but you have to realize that if one is going to piecemeal the audio components, the amp will make the biggest difference in sound quality simply because the stock amp inside the head unit can barely drive even the crappy paper speakers in most stock systems.

You can upgrade the speakers to nice components and exotic materials but almost all of them will have a reduced efficiency compared to a paper cone and will further the cost of watts required to drive them correctly. Yes, the sound quality will increase but you will never be able to turn the volume past half without distortion.

Speaking of distortion, the majority of it is NOT generated by the source unless it doesn't have preamp outputs. The head unit will have something called the SNR ratio and even crappy stock HU have enough to not produce noticeable noise to the preamps. The most noticeable distortion comes from the amp producing a square wave where the peaks are litteraly cut off. The others come from the speakers being pushed with too much power which bottom out.

If the OP is piece-mealing his installation, he will get the most bang for the buck in sound quality by going with an AMP, then headunit, then speakers. Changing out speakers only will produce clean sound at a low volume. Changing out a headunit will offer more features but won't make a difference in the actual sound output. Changing the AMP will clean up the sound at ALL volumes.

If he decides to go the whole shebang, then it won't really matter which components he purchases first as the installation will happen all at once.

I agree a sound system with an external amp pushing say 40W RMS will sound better than a system using a headunit with 40w peak power.

An external amp will make music sound better because it delivers more power to the speakers than the amp integrated into a headunit. This doesn't mean you should buy the best amp you can afford though, unless you have very high quality speakers you won't be able to hear the difference between an average amp and a premium amp assuming both have the same power rating. If I my choices were:
A) $400 amp + $100 speakers
B) $200 amp + $300 speakers
I'd choose B assuming both amps had the same RMS power.

 

[MJinZ]

For any good car audio system, the first thing you should address is the amplifier.

You can have the best head unit and speakers but the amplifier does the real job of improving your sound experience.

If you are on a budget, you can buy a decent amp and connect it to all your existing speakers and your HU and you will immediately notice a huge sound improvement.

Here would be my order of purchase

1. AMP for speakers
2. Head unit
3. AMP for subwoofers
4. Subwoofers

That way if my budget doesn't allow, I can at least enjoy the best benefit in relation to cost.

Why does an Amplifier help?

What if your stock system is already:

1) Too loud
2) Too bassy

I want clearer highs and nicer mids. Cuz I like music, and bass thumps ain't music.

 

[kornphlake]

Amplifiers add distortion as the amplification increases. An amp rated at 5 watts RMS (about what I expect from a factory stereo) may have 10% distortion at 5 watts, whereas an amp rated for 50 watts RMS shouldn't have more than .1% distortion at 5 watts. An external amp makes music louder as an added benefit, but the main benefit is that there is less distortion introduced at tyipcal listening volumes. Less distortion means that the music sounds more like the original recording and less like a reproduction.

If your stock system is too loud and too bassy you need to turn down the volume and adjust the EQ. You'd probably benefit from some upgraded speakers to get more clarity in the mids and highs.

 

[MJinZ]

Amplifiers add distortion as the amplification increases. An amp rated at 5 watts RMS (about what I expect from a factory stereo) may have 10% distortion at 5 watts, whereas an amp rated for 50 watts RMS shouldn't have more than .1% distortion at 5 watts. An external amp makes music louder as an added benefit, but the main benefit is that there is less distortion introduced at tyipcal listening volumes. Less distortion means that the music sounds more like the original recording and less like a reproduction.

If your stock system is too loud and too bassy you need to turn down the volume and adjust the EQ. You'd probably benefit from some upgraded speakers to get more clarity in the mids and highs.

Yes, my settings are around -3 on the Bass and -1 on the Treble. This brings out the mids a bit more and I just turn the volume up a bit higher to the get the effect.

I want nicer Mark Levinson Lexus type sounding music though, or Lexicon sound... mmm

 

[Imported]

Also recommend poking around on the DIYMA forums.

 

[kornphlake]

Yes, my settings are around -3 on the Bass and -1 on the Treble. This brings out the mids a bit more and I just turn the volume up a bit higher to the get the effect.

I want nicer Mark Levinson Lexus type sounding music though, or Lexicon sound... mmm

That's pretty typical, boom and sizzle sells stereos. I thought that sounded good too at one point, then I heard a well eq'd system and was blown away how much better it sounded without exaggerated highs and lows.

I haven't heard the Mark Levinson system, but more $ doesn't always mean better sound. Bose systems probably the worst offenders, yet plenty of high end vehicles offer a "premium" Bose package.