Need affected Anand members to aide in investigation of the Rhinopoint "bad deal"

[Onepotato]

Rhinopoint.com was a deal posted here on Anandtech HOT DEALS several months back. Many paid for memberships and completed surveys with a contractual promise of receiving cash towards their I.S.P. bill BUT GOT NOTHING INSTEAD.

Investigation is underway regarding Rhinopoint.com for fraud. I have contacted several agencies namely the Attorney Gerneral in both my home state and the state in which New Millenium Concepts (Rhinopoint's parent company) is located as well as the F.B.I.

An investigator from S.L.E.D. (South Carolina Law Enforcement Division) has begun investigation into allegations of interstate wire fraud by Rhinopoint. The investigator is looking for individuals who have paid for membership to Rhinopoint and didn't get paid for doing surveys. Any email records and membership payment information will help aide in the investigation. The more who can at least prove payment and report this the better the chance of getting a full blown federal investigation! There may be NO monetary compensation but hopefully there will be the satisfaction of a prison sentence and fine if this information helps to prosecute those who operated Rhinopoint.

This will post on myshopping board. Anyone may post and is encouraged to copy this and post on other boards. Please change the portion of the text to reflect the particular board being addressed.

Please send any Rhinopoint email correspondance( along with full header), membership payment proof, your name, telephone number, and mailing address to:

IMPORTANT* ALSO PUT IN THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN THE SUBJECT LINE OF YOUR EMAIL TO THE INVESTIGATOR:

your name/Rhinopoint/HUDSON

asimmons@mail.sled.state.sc.us[/email]

---

~~~ Moderator's Note ~~~

We will leave this thread open as long as it remains on topic as constructive consumer activism. Rude OT comments will not be tolerated.

Thank you, and good luck to those who lost money in this affair.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[spec411]

havent you ever heard of "failed internet business"

they used the membership fees to pay for their expenses and the advertisers and survey sponsors just didnt pan out....you were taking a risk by trying out their program, trying to get $22 or so every month just for an $15 application fee...cmon now!

just like with all@advantage and pay to surfs and other sites, internet ventures are just failing left and right...ust swallow hard and be wiser in the future

 

[SLEEPER5555]

spec that was kinda rude, can we please be civilized here. When people get taken it makes em mad (as it would you) and in life everyone eventually gets taken sometimes more that once and somtimes for big $$$. But the last thing you want to hear is "well what did you expect" imagine if you were this dude and he told you too bad you are SOL, Wouldn't you be peeved? I feel for this guy and to him i say, go get em! while your money is long gone it may turn up somthing that makes you feel good so might as well.

 

[joefart]

I was in on this... just remember if it sounds too good to be true it ain't real

 

[DirkGently]

Hey, if folks entered into a contract, and fulfilled their part of the contract (paying the registration, completing the surveys), but Rhino did not fulfill their part (paying the ISP bill), then that's actionable. (though I'm not a lawyer, and don't know all the particulars)

I do know that some folks took the MSN $400 deal, then signed up for Rhino to pay the bills they incurred by agreeing to subscribe to MSN for 2 years. If I'd done that, and was now stuck with two years of paying for MSN, I'd be a bit upset, too.

Plus, look at the flipside. If you'd failed to meet your obligation under the contract, after they'd met theirs, do you think they'd just chalk it up experience?

 

[MontyBurns]

Question: In this "contract" you all agreed to, exactly how much $$ did RhinoPoint promise to toss your way? How many surveys did they promise to let you fill out? How long did they promise to be in business?

 

[rahvin]

<<Hey, if folks entered into a contract, and fulfilled their part of the contract (paying the registration, completing the surveys), but Rhino did not fulfill their part (paying the ISP bill), then that's actionable. (though I'm not a lawyer, and don't know all the particulars)>>

Yea, and if the company legitimatly ran out of money and filed bankruptcy your &quot;action&quot; isn't going to mean sh!t.

 

[db]

yep. if they filed bankruptcy, uncle sam is first in line to get paid...and their employees and subscribers are pretty much last in line to get paid. life sucks.

 

[jrichrds]

Rhinopoint even got their members to sign up for PayPal promising payment through that service. But I guess that was really just to collect $5 referral bonuses from everyone.

 

[Wangel]

I remember this deal. I looked it over, and then when I saw there was a $22 fee to enter, I thought, what the heck? They want me to answer surveys and pay me for that, but I have to pay to start? This is crazy and possibly a rip-off. I sent them an email, stating that I would be happy to join, but just deduct the $22 from the first few surveys. They did not respond. I agree with you, that this appears more than a company going out of business. They have all the tale-tale signs of a premediatated scam. All the other internet survey or ad money makers (All Advantage) do not require you to pay upfront. This Rhino smells of scam.

 

[Onepotato]

spec411,

A failed business is one thing but Rhinopoint sent emails stating they were seeking funding all while leaving their site up luring new cusomers to pay for a service they weren't delivering to subscribers who had already paid. They took the initial subscribers money, the money they made from the surveys the subscribers completed, and the new customers money, yet few ever received compensation.

Only after I filed with the Attorney General in both states and the F.B.I. did Rhinopoint change their site. They first placed a &quot;temporary&quot; halt on new customers signing up, then the site was removed and now there seems it is completely removed as if it never existed.

This company didn't explain anything about what the real deal with them was; they came up with story after story and finally disappeared. This seems like a PONZI scheme and if the investigation proves it out and they can locate the operators a prison sentence will be their reward.

Yes, it was $12.95 to $15.95 to sign up and this is small potatos until you multiply that times the thousands who lost that money. It seems cavalier of you to tell me or anyone else to just learn our lesson when it's our money. In other post you scream injustice when you were directly effected.

Those here who have the courage and fortitude to fight crooks on the web are helping all to a safer web and deserve the respect their efforts demand. Many won't do anything when an online company rips them off for a small amount of money so these crooks keep coming back and doing it over and over.

Let me say &quot;THANK YOU&quot; to those who sent information to the investigator. I appreciate your efforts and encourage others to do the same. The investigator emailed me that information has begun arriving and she expressed her gratitude as well.

 

[aperry]

I thought I would throw in my two cents. When I signed up with Rhinopoint, it was through an arrangement with ProNet USA ISP, so it only cost me $9.95 to start. I got a total of 7 months of free internet service, so I can't really complain. ProNet USA had a neat setup in that they took care of getting payment from Rhinopoint, so I never had to write a check and wait for reimbursement, at least until the end of the gravy train.

Shortly before Rhinopoint folded, we got an email from ProNet USA stating that due to payment problems with Rhinopoint, they were going to make us pay up front and then Rhinopoint would reimburse us. That worked for almost a month, and then we got an email from ProNet stating that Rhinopoint had suddenly and unexpectedly closed operations. They actually talked with the owner of Rhinopoint who told them that their attorney had advised closure of the service. Apparently, their business model was not as solid as they thought.

And we wonder why venture capitalists are not so quick to fund Internet startups any more...

 

[Hoeboy]

if i remember correctly, didn't rhinopoint at one time say that they have over several million dollars that it was ready to use to pay members but was not sure of an effective way to do so?

 

[rahvin]

Onepotato,

The problem with a business is usually the owner's want to succeed so they keep trying even though they might be failing. Now if someone just set up a website to collect money it would be one thing, but from what I've heard they actually tried to make a run of it and failed. You just happened to get caught at the tail end of the failure, just because the failure took 3-6months to happen doesn't mean it was a scam. I'm not saying that what they didn't wasn't illegal but I'm willing to bet you that they did legitamately fold. *shrug*

 

[Onepotato]

rahvin,

Paying a select group of initial investors and using these &quot;satisfied&quot; customers to promote others into joining and not delivering to the goods/services/money to the masses who follow is exactly how a PONZI scheme works (otherwise called a pyramid scheme).

Rhinopoint coming up with a new story every few weeks for their complaining customers and then a disappearing act makes it most likely there are questionable legal business tactics Rhinopoint used. Rhinopoint obviously has much to hide.

A company with a legitimate enterprise usually gives its customers news of the closing of its operations and information on how and where to file a claim if there is a bankruptcy.

I have seen so many post from Rhinopoint members trying to get any information on what happened that I've tried to share what little information I gather.

 

[spec411]

i didnt mean to disrespect anyones claims, i only think that this deal was basically a something for nothing promise that is different from other deals..this was more like a pay to surf (pay to survey??), or &quot;earn points&quot; site (troca, mypoints, echo) only difference is you had to pay to signup for...

...im sure on the Rhinopoint site they noted that payment was based upon the completion of surveys, and that the amount of surveys was based on the # of advertisers, or &quot;survey-requesters&quot;, etc...their business failed and they simply couldnt make it...

now if there were activities such as using new member fees to pay off older members, no legitimate surveys, etc. thats a diffreent story...its too late to dispute cc charges, but I seriously doubt anyone is ever going to see any money from this, thus my opinion to just eat the loss and bear it...

...if the company was still doing this, they need to be gone after..but since their dead, theyre not scamming anyone else and its over...ive eaten the loss from what xcom and paypal did to me, and they are still in operation..when they are dead i will be very happy, and im sure a lot of other people (who still have money in their accounts) will then start complaining, after its too late...

 

[MrBeetle]

Also... how many &quot;real&quot; companys ask you to sign up for pay-pal, under their referral?

Return-Path: survey@rhinopoint.net
Received: from [144.92.9.41] by mail6.doit.wisc.edu
id PAA82266 (8.9.1/50); Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:16:01 -0500
Received: from [216.214.52.250] by mail2.doit.wisc.edu
id PAA15692 (8.9.1/50); Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:16:00 -0500
Received: from rhino [216.214.52.250] by rhino.rhinopoint.com
(SMTPD32-5.05) id ADC536550240; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 16:21:25 -0400
From: rhinoPoint <survey@rhinopoint.net>
To: Scott Laupan <salaupan@students.wisc.edu>
X-Priority: 1
Priority: urgent
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:21:25 &quot;GMT&quot;
X-MSMail-Priority: High
X-mailer: AspMail 3.03 (SMTP70129B)
Subject: Survey Reimbursement
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=&quot;us-ascii&quot;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <200006171621500.SM00207@rhino>

Dear Scott,
Recently we sent you a notice that we are now using a
new service to credit your survey account. Ultimall has
arranged a corporate account for us with the nation?s
largest online payment service, ?PayPal?. PayPal is a
safe and secure way to transfer money over the Internet.
They handle thousands of transactions a day for companies
like E-bay and other large online retailers. They keep all
information private. While the account you setup with them
is for your rhinoPoint payments, it is your account to use
as you wish. You can send money to your kids in college or
send a reminder to your cousin in Alaska to send you the
$50.00 he owes you through your PayPal account. It?s free.
For a limited time, they are paying a $5.00 bonus when you
register to get your money from us. Our account link is
below:

https://secure.pay-pal.com/refer/pal=paypal@rhinopoint.net

This system has worked well for the first few thousand test
batches we have done. There has only been one small hitch,
Paypal only notifies us of the people that sign up through
our account link. They send us an update twice a week so we
can transfer funds. If you do not use the link, it can take
us weeks to track down your account. You do not need to
notify us that you have signed up because we get a confirm-
ation from them. If you are due for more than one survey,
remember that we are crediting people based on the closing
date of the survey. You will only receive payment for one
survey at a time.

If you already have a PayPal account (be aware that they
have 2,000,000 members), you need to make sure that your
PayPal email address matches your rhinoPoint email address.
If it does not, you must add your rhinoPoint email address
to your Paypal account (do not change your rhinoPoint
address to match your Paypal address). Paypal has confirmed
that this is all you need to do. Please email us at
paypal@rhinopoint.net with your member ID, so we can track
accounts not setup through our account link for proper
reimbursement.

Paypal does not require much information to get paid, but
you must register completely for us to get the notification
in a timely manner. We want to get you paid ASAP.

Again, you must use the link above if you do not already
have a Paypal account. If for some reason the link does
not work by clicking on it, please type the entire link
in the address bar of your Internet browser. If you need
assistance signing up, you can contact PayPal support
directly at 1-877-6-PAYPAL (1-877-672-9725), Customer
Service Hours: 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM (Pacific time).

Thank You.
rhinoPoint Member Services







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To complete your surveys, go to
https://www.rhinopoint.com/login.asp
Your Member ID: SL14301
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


When you recommend us to your friends,
remember to give them your User ID.
That way you get credit for the referral.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[MrBeetle]

More info...

Rhinopoint.net is registered to

Exodus Technologies, Inc. (RHINOPOINT2-DOM)
P.O. Box 857
Worcester, PA 19490

Did a search on switchboard...

Exodus Technologies Inc
2152 Bethel Rd,
Lansdale, PA 19446-6077
Phone: (215)661-8740

Worcester, PA and Lansdale, PA are 2.5 miles apart. Think this company could help us at all?

 

[bannor11]

Rhinopoint kept telling me they'd pay me, that they were handling over 200-300 payments a day in July. After filling out two surveys and receiving a bunch of bs emails, they just stopped emailing me. I hope someone pays for this. I already sent in my complaint, everyone who got screwed over on this deal should too.

 

[Softballslug]

I agree, RhinoPoint was leading people on. First there was my payment which was &quot;in the credit process now&quot;! How long does it take to credit a credit card? About 3 days max! This was just a stall tactic on their part. Lets get all we can from them!!!

Here are my emails as proof!
=================

This was a survey that the ending date was extended to May 31. It is in
credit process now.

Thank you,
Donna
Member Services

Be sure to include your member number
in all of your email to rhinoPoint and don't forget to refer your friends
and earn bonus
points!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXXXXX[mailto:XXXXXXXXXXX@inetmail.att.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 11:23 AM
To: Donna
Subject: RE: Your rhinoPoint.com membership has been processed!


Donna,

It is now the 10th of June and still no credit to my account?!?!
Any idea when I will get credit?

-----Original Message-----
From: Donna [mailonna@rhinopoint.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:52 PM
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: Your rhinoPoint.com membership has been processed!


It takes approximately two weeks after the survey closes for credits to be
issued. The survey you took closes on May 19. You should see your credit
after that date.

Thank you,
Member Services

Please remember to include member ID # with all email.

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXXXXXXX[mailto:XXXXXXXXXXXX@inetmail.att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:21 PM
To: RhinoPont.com Member Services
Subject: RE: Your rhinoPoint.com membership has been processed!


Dear Sirs;

I completed my first survey over 2 weeks ago. I still do not have a credit
to my account. What is going on? I upheld my part of the deal by signing
up and paying the setup fee. I waited the almost 2 months before a survey
was ready. I completed the survey within 1 hour of getting your email. Now
are you going to uphold your end of the deal by properly crediting my
account? Thank you...

/s/ XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

[spec411]

Softballslug: get all you can from them?? theres nothing to be gotten! rhinopoint is dead and i doubt anyone will see anything at all...

 

[Onepotato]

I've grown tired of the negative attitude spec411 expresses. I stated in the beginning of the post there was probably nothing to gain monetarily.

Spec411, I would appreciate you dropping your input. It is obvious you think we should suck it up and eat our loss. The intention of this post is to aid in an investigation regarding possible online fraud of Rhinopoint.

Any persons who fell cheated and are willing to seek justice are asked to assist. If the investigation proves the charges and a conviction occurs as a result it will be well worth what I paid to Rhinopoint. If convicted, there will be an order of restitution. It doesn't mean those who would be found guilty would ever be able to pay back all the money but any money they make in their lifetime will be subject to the court order of restitution.

 

[Softballslug]

Spec,

Who is to say that RhinoPoint just didn't get all of our money and close shop. They could be in the process of changing company names and starting another scam such as AligatorPoint! This needs to be tracked to the people doing the business and as Mr. Potato has said, we don't expect any money from this, but I do expect the proper authorities to investigate!

 

[OzzieGT]

Spec, until it has been proven that they have filed for bankruptcy, there is no reason whatsoever for anyone to give up.

Ozy

 

[DirkGently]

&quot;Yea, and if the company legitimatly ran out of money and filed bankruptcy your &quot;action&quot; isn't going to mean sh!t. &quot;


That's not necessarily true. Even if they've filed bankruptcy, you should be able to get yourself named to the creditor list, and get at least partial payment for the months you fulfilled your contract.


But, with as screwy as bankruptcy laws are, it's just as likely they'll skate. Or pay pennies on the dollar.