Need advise on buying a MAC

[vanvock]

Not sure where to post this so I'll try it here. My daughter is wanting a iMac G5 for college to do graphic design with Adobe PhotoShop, Illustrator, In Design & maybe Maya. She's looking at a 1.9ghz PowerPC G5 with 512mb of 533mhz DDR2 ram, 160g HDD, 8x DL burner & a ATI X600pro(128mb) video card. Neither of us have any experience with them & would appreciate any input before we make a purchase. I've searched around a bit & have heard that they are coming out with x86 processors by Intel & I'm not sure how that impacts the whole thing. Will OSX soon run on PC's? I thought she should get at least 1g of ram would that be enough? Any thoughts on that vid card? Is this a bad time to get a Mac? Any links to info would be great. Thanks.

 

[leegroves86]

Whatever you do, get a newer mac with the Intel processors. The old mac processors have bit the dust and they would be a total waste of money anymore... so you are right when you want an intel powered imac. I would reccomend getting 1GB of ram, nothing less whatsoever. And if she will be doing lots of graphics then 2 GB would be a wise investment. As far as I know, OS X will not run on regular pcs. the new macs have a special built in chip on the motherboard that confirms with OS X that it is a genuine mac computer and not another intel pc. Get the best video card you can with DEDICATED ram. Good luck, macs are awesome.

 

[vanvock]

Thanx for the reply. I'm not sure what you mean by DEDICATED ram. I assume the Intel Mac's will be called something other than a G5. Are they available now? Why would the older ones be a total waste, because newer software won't work on them?

UPDATE: I've found a new one with 1.83g CoreDuo Intel cpu, 667mhz ram, ATIX1600(128mb) & other spec's the same which looks like a better choice. Anyone know of any reviews?

 

[kamper]

So far as I'm aware, Adobe's stuff isn't out in x86 versions yet so she'd have to run them through the emulator which won't be as fast (if you get one with an intel proc). Of course, if this is a long term investment, then it might be worth the trouble, since I'm sure it will be out soon.

 

[vanvock]

Thanks, that's something to consider. I wonder if they have dual channel memory, they seem to hint at it but I don't see it actually listed as such.

EDIT: If we were to get the Intel box would Adobe CS2 for the G5 run on it? Is this emulator an add-on that they use for the windows version & if so can it be downloaded?

 

[jwhitt]

ok what i would recomend is getting the mac and doing the ram upgrade yourself (save a few bucks) but then again im a poor college student. the new macs (macbook, and x86imac are scheduled to ship starting in feb, intel cant get enough chipsets made fast enough. the new desktop systems are probbly going to be released this summer, id wait till summer to get one unless its imparitv to get one now. the professional software ie adobe etc will be out shortly, also id maybe look into the apple program apature? ive heard good reviews from digital photographers and what not.... my 2 cents

 

[Nothinman]

Whatever you do, get a newer mac with the Intel processors. The old mac processors have bit the dust and they would be a total waste of money anymore... so you are right when you want an intel powered imac.

PPC Macs won't lose support for many years with the Rosetta system and universal binaries Apple has in place. Hell it might be better to get one of them since the release of the Intel based Macs will probably cause the PPC based ones to drop in price.

 

[vanvock]

Yet another point to consider. As of now they are the same $. The intel's have better mem & video.

 

[Wuzup101]

Once they start shipping you probably will see some drop in price for the G5 iMacs. I would personally opt for the newer intel processor (as a powerbook G4 user myself). The G5 is a great chip, but the intel chip will be the way of the future. OSX is pretty good at using dual processors (in this case dual cores) already, and yes the ram will be dual channel. For graphics work I would definitely recomend going for 2gb of ram and possibly an extra external HDD. Current versions of software designed for the G4/G5 will work on the new intel macs with emulation but should run just about as fast if not faster on the newer machines given the extra processing power. I'm sure Adobe and Microsoft, along with other major developers, will be very quick to release native intel/OSX versions of their programs - Adobe probably will have a new version of Photoshop out shortly after the new intel macs start shipping.

As mentioned above, the powermac and iBook have yet to be released. There is still a lot of stuff comming with the move to intel. I personally wouldn't buy right now unless you intend to start using the machine right now. If the computer is for next fall semester put it off until atleast the beginning of summer.

Another thing to consider... as a college student myself I can't help but recomend a laptop. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have an iMac, but I would be lost without my powerbook. The new MacBook Pro's are going to be pretty powerful. Sure, they will cost a bit more than the iMac (make her get ajob... or another job). The ability to take all your work with you on a college campus is worth every penny - atleast for me. And don't worry about buying late. As long as she gets the machine a few days before school starts she'll be fine. OSX has next to no learning curve... and the programs (like photoshop, dreamweaver, etc...) all work pretty much the same.

 

[chcarnage]

Don't worry about the dedicated memory because there hasn't been a Mac without it for ages. (The opposite system, called shared memory, means that there is no separate RAM on the graphics card, thus slowing down the memory access for the graphics chipset).

Maybe your daughter qualifies for an educational rebate?

Apple isn't exactly famous for big warehouse stocks, so if you're hoping to catch a discountinued G5 iMac for a reduced price, you got to pay attention. The timeframe for such deals will be short and Apple itself won't have special offers on its website.

The x86 iMacs were introduced to the public only 8 days ago and it'll take them a few weeks to hit the shelves. The new series is equal or better than the G5 iMac in every aspect (except they may need a bit more power, and a 32 bit CPU replaces a 64 bit one, but this isn't important).

The architecture change forces all software companies to adapt or rewrite their software. This may take weeks or months but it will be worth it. Adobe CS2 for PPC will run in the emulator called Rosetta but not with full performance. Rosetta emulates a G3 processor but Adobe products intensely use the Altivec unit (PPC counterpart to SSE) which is part only of the G4 and G5. I wouldn't go as far as calling Rosetta an emergency solution but it should be a transitional solution. Don't buy any PPC Mac software if you plan buying the x86 iMac. Windows versions won't run at all for the foreseeable future.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
Apple isn't exactly famous for big warehouse stocks, so if you're hoping to catch a discountinued G5 iMac for a reduced price, you got to pay attention. The timeframe for such deals will be short and Apple itself won't have special offers on its website.

Thesale section has refurbs and stuff, and they listed G4 powermacs for MONTHS after the G5s came out. Although, with the popularity of the iMac G5, I doubt it will be the same.

The x86 iMacs were introduced to the public only 8 days ago and it'll take them a few weeks to hit the shelves. The new series is equal or better than the G5 iMac in every aspect (except they may need a bit more power, and a 32 bit CPU replaces a 64 bit one, but this isn't important).

It is important. The G5 is a better CPU.

The architecture change forces all software companies to adapt or rewrite their software. This may take weeks or months but it will be worth it. Adobe CS2 for PPC will run in the emulator called Rosetta but not with full performance. Rosetta emulates a G3 processor but Adobe products intensely use the Altivec unit (PPC counterpart to SSE) which is part only of the G4 and G5. I wouldn't go as far as calling Rosetta an emergency solution but it should be a transitional solution. Don't buy any PPC Mac software if you plan buying the x86 iMac. Windows versions won't run at all for the foreseeable future.

Benchmarks here.

 

[sourceninja]

Wow, I didn't know apple released the intel stuff already. I must be slippin. I'm surprised to see that they are priced near that of the dell price for compatable hardware. In fact at the 1999 price point you can only get an extra 512 megs of ram from dell. Way to go apple.

 

[Wuzup101]

Oh and... make sure you get all allowable student discounts on both the hardware and software. If she's going to college, she's definitely going to be able to use the discount (it's not much... butg 10% is 10%). Software is where you really save... gotta love the whole adove suite for like $100...

 

[ValuedCustomer]

The G5 is a better CPU.

Not according to the benchmarks you posted. Granted the PowerMac G5 "beats" the Duo setup in most of those tests (not all) but it needs an extra CPU and over a gig more processing power to do it. - I have a freind that has a PM G5 that he swears by, and I'll admit it's pretty dang sweet, but I'll take the Duo.

 

[vanvock]

Thanks for all of the input. She has a Windoze laptop this machine will pretty much be a tool.

Wuzup: How do I find out about these discounts?

 

[Noema]

I think I'm going to get a Mac Mini for my folks as soon as I have enough dough for it.

Darn, they are so sexy. Even I with my somewhat jaded anti-Mac biases must admit they look wonderful, and the price is nice (the base model now comes with 512MBs RAM).

The hard thing will be making my father give up using Outlook (or is there an OSX version out there? )

 

[Nothinman]

MS makes Office for Mac OS, Outlook is called Entourage.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/

 

[CaptKevMan]

There is a lot of good info in this thread already; I just want to add my $.02:

Go with the new Intel machine. I would reiterate the recommendation for the MacBook Pro for portability's sake, but the iMac is a damn good machine for a desktop. I wouldn't worry too much about the emulation: it's called "Rosetta," and it's built in to Mac OS X to run invisibly in the background. As a student, any performance hit that emulation might make on her workflow would be mostly offset by the architecture difference. This will be her "starter" Mac, and when she's ready for a more powerful machine (whatever they're going to call the new towers) a couple of years down the road, she can relegate the iMac to more pedestrian/utilitarian uses around the house.

As was stated before, the G5 isn't going to stop working any time soon, but if you're going to invest in an all-in-one system (which are typically not very flexible in the upgrade department), you may as well get the most bang for your buck.

Also, spend a few extra bucks and go for the 20". It'll be worth it.

If she's used to Windows, definitely get her a multi-button mouse (the Mighty Mouse is standard, but it's receiving mixed reviews, from what I can tell).

Mac OS X will not run on non-Apple hardware. Someone may hack it to work eventually, but the whole point of the Mac is that it's a great OS running on specific hardware...I wouldn't trust Mac OS X on a non-Apple system for anything other than geeky tinkering.

Adobe CS2 should run fine (if a little slower) in the Rosetta environment (remember, it's transparent to the user); I'm sure Adobe will release optimized versions for the Intel Macs in the not-too-distant future. Apple's Pro apps (Final Cut Pro, Logic, Shake), OTOH, won't run on the Intel Macs until their optimized versions are released in May 2006.

As far as where to find deals on Macs, the best places I've found are:
DealMac - a site that has literally saved me thousands of dollars over the past 7 or so years.
The Apple Store - there are links there to the education store, as well as the "special deals" section, where Apple sells refurbished equipment that carries the same warranty as their new equipment.
The Low End Mac Swap List - this is a subscription mailing list, but there are often good deals to be had on gently used or older equipment.

Which leads me to my last statement: there is no shortage of friendly Mac communities on the internet. To me, that's one of the greater benefits of being a Mac user -- there's never any shortage of people to help you find your way when you get lost.

(I'm currently a Mac help desk tech and I've been a Mac enthusiast for the past 12+ years, so take this advice however you like )

Good luck to you!

 

[Illusio]

I would also say go with an intel mac. while its true that the Power PC ones will be supported for a while now, macs have a very long shelf life compared to PCs. Some people use their computers for 4-5 years. So i would go wtih the system that will allow her to stay ahead of the game during the transition.

Also, adobe should be coming out with its creative suite for the intel chip in the next few months. Adobe's products have been a staple on the mac for many years and I can't imagine them putting that off for the intel computers. Even Quark has announced their intel version coming out soon (and quark SUCKS with updates).

Everything else said has been good. I'd look into the student discount from the apple store, should save you like 10% or so.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: vanvock
Wuzup: How do I find out about these discounts?

On the main apple store page there should be a link to 'Education Store' or something like that. I think how it works depends on where you are, but I just have to tell it my school and my student number and then all the prices are magically 10% lower. If you just want to see price differences and aren't really a student (or don't have the correct info handy), it's pretty easy to lie to it but obviously you woudn't want to try that when you actually make an order.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

The G5 is a better CPU.

Not according to the benchmarks you posted. Granted the PowerMac G5 "beats" the Duo setup in most of those tests (not all) but it needs an extra CPU and over a gig more processing power to do it. - I have a freind that has a PM G5 that he swears by, and I'll admit it's pretty dang sweet, but I'll take the Duo.

The Powermac is dual processor, the intelMac is dual core. It's about the same there.

The iMac G5 is single proc. single core. It doesn't do too poorly in the tests.

Did I say the G5 out performed the Intel CPU? If I did, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. I just meant it's a better CPU.