Need Advice on TVs

[thephatp]

I'm looking to buy a new HDTV soon, and I've been trying to do some research on it. However, sometimes the best advice comes from those who use the product (or make it).

Honestly, from what I've seen, Samsung makes one of the best HDTVs. I been looking for quite some time now, and they are really up there. Of course, you have to find stores that have great component feeds.

Here are my thoughts on other brands:
Sony - Overpriced
Philips - Not as good of HDTVs
Magnavox - Good, but a little overpriced
Panasonic - Decent

Samsung hasn't become popular enough yet (in TVs) to make a consumers pay for their name. But the quality seems top of the line with the rest of them.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Anyone have any really good or really bad experiences with Samsung TVs (of late)?

Any thoughts on this are welcomed.

Thanks for the help!

 

[rbV5]

I disagree about Philips not being as good as HDTV's. My Philips RPTV is very good, especially concerning price/performance. Biggest drawback is lack of 720p support, but as a display for my HTPC, its been very good,and even has outstanding SD IQ.

A good source of info is the Displays forum at AVSforums. Lots of user feedback of virtually every model available.

 

[thephatp]

cool...thanks for the info, rbV5!

Anyone else?

 

[Ken90630]

If money's no object, definitely check out sets by a German company called Loewe (pronounced "ler-vuh"). They are arguably the best TV sets on earth. I haven't checked lately, but there's probably a Loewe.com or Loeweusa.com or LoeweTV.com or some permutation thereof. It's not a fringe company or anything -- they're well established in Europe.

Last I checked, which was probably about a year ago, Good Guys was the only mainstream dealer here in the states, and they carried several of their models. They are quite expensive -- about 1 1/2 to 2 times other brands (probably due to the importation & such). I watched part of a Stone Temple Pilots concert they had playing on one of the Loewe HDTV sets one day as I was walking thru the store, and the image was jaw-dropping. It looked like the band was playing right in front of me and I was watching them thru a pane of clear glass. (And that was 1080i, which I think is inferior to progressive scan!). Loewe had a U.S. HQ or distribution center or something in Arizona too at the time, if memory serves.

I would also take a good look at JVC and Toshiba as well. I think either will compete very well with any of the other brands you mention, and Hitachi makes some nice large HDTVs as well.

And yes, Sony is overpriced (and you can bet a Sony will be in the shop within a year or two for one problem or another). I kinda like the Samsung sets I've seen too, although the significantly lower prices make me a bit uneasy about longevity (just what did they cut corners on to get the price that low?). Or maybe Samsung just has a very efficient "business model" (like Dell) and keeps costs down that way. Who knows?

Good luck!

Ken

 

[Dulanic]

Really depends if your talking about direct view tubes which it seems you are. Sony makes the best quality ones overall, but they are expensive, but sometimes you can find a good deal, like CC right now has the 36" Sony HS510 for like $1281... normal price is like $1799.

My honest opinion of samsung... CRAP, absolute crap. Just go into the store and watch one... if they run a loop and it has a logo in the corner for the channel or whatever watch what happens when a scene goes from light to dark, youll see that logo shift a good 2" or more. The gemoetry is usually messed up too, the 32" one I saw would commonly warp the picture on the sides when using component input.

 

[Ken90630]

Hi, Dulanic: Not to start an argument or anything, but by what criteria does "Sony make the best quality ones overall"? I just don't see it. And they certainly never fare dramatically well in any reliability/repair surveys that I've ever seen (Consumer Reports, et al.).

Re your statement, "The gemoetry is usually messed up too, the 32" one I saw would commonly warp the picture on the sides when using component input," you may have been seeing a phenomenon known as blooming. This occurs when the contrast on ANY direct view TV (except LCD) is set too high (whether its Samsung or Sony or any brand). It causes vertical lines & images to bend, particularly on the left and right sides of the screen. Virtually every TV you'll see in a store has its contrast maxed out (set that way at the factory) 'cuz the stores & mfgrs want to create an artificially saturated picture that will attract viewers and make us go, "wow" and buy them. The problem is that this creates the aforementioned blooming (and also dramatically lessens the life of the picture tube). Next time you see that, ask the salesperson if they'll let you turn the contrast down to about half where it is. I think you'll see the warping disappear or at least subside dramatically.

I know this from personal experience. I recently bought a new 24" (non-HD) set and nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out what was causing the warping. Drove me nuts -- door frames in scenes were bent, picture frames were bent, trees looked bent .... Finally bought a DVD test disc and ascertained the problem. I kid you not -- I literally could watch the badly warped test patterns straighten themselves out as I held the button down on the remote and reduced the contrast value! Now, having said all this, the prob can also be caused by a weak power supply in the set. And if the Sammy you looked at has a weak power supply, well, there you go! (And my uneasiness about Sammys could therefore be validated by what you saw!)

I'm just mentioning this because the prob you saw could possibly be fixed very easily by simply adjusting the contrast to what it should be, and the set could be just fine. Don't ask me why mis-adjusted contrast causes blooming -- I just know it does.

That stupid test disc set me back $40, but I'll tell you, I'll won't buy another TV again anytime soon without popping the disc into a DVD player at the store, firing it up, and checking the set out with it first. The salesperson will just have to stand there and wait for me if he/she wants my money.

 

[sumrtym]

I personally think you are correct. Samsung offers the best TV widely available on the market now in terms of their DLP TVs. I recommend you look other than Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. though. The TVs there are lower end versions than say at Ultimate Electronics. The ones there have built-in convertors to upscan any resolution that isn't 720p to that.

The Samsung sets even have in addition to the electronics version of DVI, a standard COMPUTER DVI connector to hook up to a PC.

 

[Dulanic]

Originally posted by: sumrtym
I personally think you are correct. Samsung offers the best TV widely available on the market now in terms of their DLP TVs. I recommend you look other than Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. though. The TVs there are lower end versions than say at Ultimate Electronics. The ones there have built-in convertors to upscan any resolution that isn't 720p to that.

The Samsung sets even have in addition to the electronics version of DVI, a standard COMPUTER DVI connector to hook up to a PC.

CC and Ultimate carry the exact same DLP. And I dont think he is refering to DLP, more Direct view.

And to Ken... I sell these TVs every day, and Sony does make the best direct view tubes, no question, the XBRs. Their too expensive, but they are the best picture quality out there. As for what I've seen... it is not that problem, even with the contrast down the problem exsisted. Replaced the TV 4 times and they all had the problem. I havent seen it in a while but I havent been able to see one on component input lately, all ours are on coax except one, and that one seems ok. But seriously go watch one and watch if it has a logo in the corner, if so watch it for a bit, youll notice it shifting all over when the screen goes from light to dark. I also agree it is likely a power supply problem, that is a common thing you would see in PC monitors with weak power supplys. After selling TVs every day for years I can say I would never buy a sammy tube TV. Can't say the same about the DLP, Id buy that in a heartbeat.

And please NEVER refer to consumer reports, never listen to what they say. In a big screen review, they rated the Hitachi base series #2 and the Ultravision #3 saying the base series has a better picture quality, they must have been smoking something. I remember a few years ago when they did a washer review, there was 2 washers, EXACT same machines except different manufacturer labels... one was rated in the top 3... the other was somewhere in the 20s.

 

[Ken90630]

Good to know. Not having the benefit of seeing the sets you're describing, I think I'll concur with you that it's probably a weak power supply. (Maybe that's where they cut a corner to get the cost down!) I'd be as annoyed as you if that logo shifting phenomenon was going on with sets I was trying to sell.

And I'll also agree with you, to some extent anyway, about Consumer Reports. What I mainly use it for is their readers' reliability surveys -- at least those aren't as subjective in the way that a reviewer's ignorance or bias can be in terms of rating a product. When 30,000 people fill out a survey and the overwhelming consensus is that Brand X products break down significantly more than other brands, and Brand Z breaks down 1/10th as often as others, and this pattern repeats itself year after year for five years straight or something, then there's probably something valid to be gleened from that. But I will also say I've found some of their computer articles to be somewhat shallow and geared mainly for Carl Cubicle and Wendy Websurfer rather than more 'sophisticated' users. But then that's their readership, so ....

I also remember an air purifier test they did awhile back that was highly questionable to me. When I e-mailed them about their testing methodology, they were very evasive and a little 'testy' (okay, pun intended). Figured I'd better drop it or have to worry about some shadowy figure in dark glasses showing up on my doorstep some night .... Like I said, I mainly refer to their reader surveys on reliability, and the non-subjective product info they have can sometimes be useful when comparison shopping (specs, features, warranties). I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a CR "fanboy," however.

Like a lot of things these days, use what you find useful and discard the rest.

 

[mboy]

Have a 32" Samsung 4:3 Directview HDTV for over 2 years now. Not 1 problem (other then factory geometry which EVERY direct view, flatscreen has). Once properly tweaked (AVIA, Video Essentials disk or if u have the $$ ISF calibration), it looks GREAT.
Decent 480i to 480p upconversion. DVD"s look awesome and HDTV via dishnetwork looks even better.
I really enjoy my Samsung and would reco it, especially for the $$ compared to what else is out there.

 

[thephatp]

Thanks for all the good info. I guess I haven't looked that closely at them all, because I haven't noticed much warpping. I've definitely looked at Ultimate Electronics as well as many others. I've found that the best setups are in home theatre stores and such that specialize in TVs or home electronics. The only retail store that's a "generic" store (with all kinds of electronics) is actually Circuit City. The one I went to have a very nice setup with component video feeds to all the TVs that had component video input.

As far as the prices and being uneasy, this is my take: From what I've seen, Samsung has been at least competitive with other brands. The prices aren't as high because the name isn't has big (say as Sony or Philips or Panasonic). But I do see what you are saying about the power supply, and yes, perhaps they are "cutting corners" there. Can anyone else that has owned a Samsung (of late...like one produced in the past 2 years) give some insight into what they have found?

Price is an issue for me. I'm trying to stay around $600 or less, but can flex up to $700. But that is MAX I can spend (getting married and have to have $$ for "more important" things...ha).

FYI, I never trust the settings in the stores when looking at TVs. I ALWAYS adjust them to my liking to see where the levels are. If they don't fit somewhere in the middle range, (e.g. if they are near an extreme to get it to my liking), then I know there is a problem. I'll steer away from those. But when I'm looking for a nice HDTV, what ALL should I be looking for? I don't want to get something and be unsatisfied with it later, but I also have to stay in a price range.

Thanks for all the help! More comments are welcome!

 

[otispunkmeyer]

would agree with samsung......their products are fantastic for fantastic prices......in the UK their mobile phones have the best screens and polyphonic speaker systems..sheer quality for the right price.

but money no object......bang and olufsen, bose, sony etc

LG i would say are like samsung....dunno if they make HDTV tho

bang and olufsen should .... i hope

 

[Ken90630]

I don't sell TVs for a living like Dulanic said he does, so he'd probably be better qualified to address the cost issue, but my experience shopping for my new TV a couple months ago leads me to think that you're not likely to find ANY HDTV other than Samsung in the $600 or $700 range. I almost bought one of those myself -- I think it was a 30" Sammy. The ONLY reasons I didn't were my aforementioned paranoia about where they might have cut a corner to get the price that low for an HDTV, and the fact that it's 2" too wide to fit into my entertainment center. :-( My superficial view of the set (I was in a hurry that day) was that the picture looked pretty good though! But I certainly didn't test it for warping/blooming or any other anomalies.

Something you might consider: Find a store that has 2 sets you think you'd like and that'll let you return a set if you want for exchange or refund. Buy your first choice, and if you're not happy with it, take it back and exchange it for your second choice. Your odds of ending up happy should be significantly increased. You could buy the Sammy, see how you like it, and take it back if you don't. I know that Sears, for instance, has a VERY buyer-friendly policy when it comes to returns: you can return a TV "within a resonable period of time" for any reason. They don't limit you to 5 days or 30 days or any specific period of time (I asked). Oddly enough, they have a pretty wide selection of TVs too: Sammys, Hitachi, Panasonic, Philips, Sony, and others. I bought my new JVC set there (not an HDTV though) after looking at all the usual suspects (Circuit City, Good Guys, Target, Fry's, the Web, et al.).

I'd spend a few minutes looking at various channels and a DVD or two that you've brought along. To test for blooming or "warping," look at scenes with multiple straight vertical lines in them -- things like door frames, picture frames on walls, trees, outside edges of buildings, that sort of thing. Check to see that the line/edge doesn't warp near the top or bottom. Another good test is the square boxes in the "scene selection" part of the menu on DVDs. Look for a bent line on the boxes. Other than that, most other aspects of the picture on any name brand HDTV should be pretty adjustable to your liking and not likely to be a problem. In an A/B comparison is a Sony likely to look a little better than a Sammy? Probably, but then you could say that about a lot or products and drive yourself nuts in the process!

That's gonna be it for my input -- I'm afraid we're all gonna get flamed off this forum for posting non-computer related stuff (although it is "video" related). Good luck, amigo!

PS: You might PM Dulanic since he said he sells TVs for a living.