Need advice on Recommendations for my best friend

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
So one of my best friends who i will refer to as Kz is not doing anything productive with his life, and seems to be going "down hill"

Heres his story. Kz is 23 years old and has grown up in South Orange County (CA). He graduated HS back in 2002 and has been in and out of CC ever since just taking core classes unsure of where he wants to go. I have told him repeatedly that he needst to quit dicking around and just pick a degree that he doesnt "hate" and that would be better than spending so much time not really accomplishing anything or working towards anything. Currently he is not in school this quarter, and he is working as a security guard for around 10 bucks/hr i believe. He works this security guard job for about 42 hours a week or so, and lives with his father. He just told me today, that his dad was marrying this woman and they would probably be moving to North Carolina. Now I havent been to NC, but im pretty postitive that its not better than So Cal.

What I am trying to do, is convince him that he needs to decide on what he plans on doing with his life. The way I see it he has about 3 choices...
1. he can stay with his dad, move out to NC and kinda start new as far as finding a job, friends, etc.
2. he can stay here in So Cal and
a. Find a decent job that he maybe wants to make a career out of
b. Finish his school, get his Associates Degree, and either get a job, or continue school and get a real degree.
3. Other... i dunno

Anyways, we have been friends for about 6 years now and I dont really like watching him do nothing with his life. He works sh1tty hours at his security job like thursday -Sunday 3pm-1am or so, and the rest of the time, he just hangs out at his dads house playing WOW i think.


Does anybody have any advice on what i should recommend to him. I have been trying to nudge him toward school for the past few years, but he just wont seem to do it.

Any body been in his situation, or seen their friends in it and been able to help them out?
 

blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,453
10
81
there was a blog that had an entry written by one of the officers who had been around the longest at one of the oldest and biggest guilds who finally decided to quit one day because it was ruining his life and others around him both in game and IRL.

let me see if i can dig it up.
 

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
there was a blog that had an entry written by one of the officers who had been around the longest at one of the oldest and biggest guilds who finally decided to quit one day because it was ruining his life and others around him both in game and IRL.

let me see if i can dig it up.

I would be interested in reading that
 

mcvickj

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2001
4,602
0
76
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
there was a blog that had an entry written by one of the officers who had been around the longest at one of the oldest and biggest guilds who finally decided to quit one day because it was ruining his life and others around him both in game and IRL.

let me see if i can dig it up.

I would be interested in reading that

http://soulkerfuffle.blogspot.com/2006/10/view-from-top.html
 

blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,453
10
81
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
there was a blog that had an entry written by one of the officers who had been around the longest at one of the oldest and biggest guilds who finally decided to quit one day because it was ruining his life and others around him both in game and IRL.

let me see if i can dig it up.

I would be interested in reading that

here you go
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
there was a blog that had an entry written by one of the officers who had been around the longest at one of the oldest and biggest guilds who finally decided to quit one day because it was ruining his life and others around him both in game and IRL.

let me see if i can dig it up.

I would be interested in reading that

here you go

Can someone post the entry here? It's blocked for me.
 

blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,453
10
81
The top of what you ask? The height of World of Warcraft greatness.

A few weeks ago, a good friend of mine quit playing Warcraft. He was a council member on what is now one of the oldest guilds in the world, the type of position coveted by many of the 7 million people who play the game today, but which only a few ever get.

When he quit, I asked him if he would write a guest blog post about the experience. What follows is a cautionary tale about the pull an escape from reality can have on you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

60 levels, 30+ epics, a few really good "real life" friends, a seat on the oldest and largest guild on our server's council, 70+ days "/played," and one "real" year later...

Mr. Yeager asked me to write this "guest blog" for him. I figured I should oblige him this request - it was none other than Mr. Yeager who first introduced me to (begged for me to buy, actually :p) the World of Warcraft. It was the "perfect storm" for me; a time in my life when I was unemployed, living at my family's house far from my friends, and had just finished my engineering degree and was taking a little time to find a job. I had a lot of free time on my hands and WoW gave me a place to spend it.

This could be a many page epic tale, but I figure I'd give you the brief history and pertinent information. The guild Mr. Yeager got me into and with which I became an officer is the oldest and largest on the server I played on. It is around 18 months old and extremely well-versed in endgame instances. I was both the "mage class lead" and an officer. I have many very good friends I met through WoW (in real life - no kidding) and even have been "involved" with another councilor in real life (yes, I know, I'm weird for meeting girls through an online video game but honestly, ask Mr. Yeager, she's head and shoulders better than all the girls I met DJing, waiting tables, in college, and bartending at clubs in Philly). But I digress...

I just left WoW permanently. I was a leader in one of the largest and most respected guilds in the world, a well-equipped and well-versed mage, and considered myself to have many close friends in my guild. Why did I leave? Simple: Blizzard has created an alternate universe where we don't have to be ourselves when we don't want to be. From my vantage point as a guild decision maker, I've seen it destroy more families and friendships and take a huge toll on individuals than any drug on the market today, and that means a lot coming from an ex-club DJ.

It took a huge personal toll on me. To illustrate the impact it had, let's look at me one year later. When I started playing, I was working towards getting into the best shape of my life (and making good progress, too). Now a year later, I'm about 30 pounds heavier that I was back then, and it is not muscle. I had a lot of hobbies including DJing (which I was pretty accomplished at) and music as well as writing and martial arts. I haven't touched a record or my guitar for over a year and I think if I tried any Kung Fu my gut would throw my back out. Finally, and most significantly, I had a very satisfying social life before. My friends and I would go out and there were things to do every night of the week. Now a year later, I realize my true friends are the greatest people in the world because the fact I came out of my room, turned the lights on, and watched a movie with them still means something. They still are having a great time teasing me at my expense, however, which shows they still love me and they haven't changed.

These changes are miniscule, however, compared to what has happened in quite a few other people's lives. Some background... Blizzard created a game that you simply can not win. Not only that, the only way to "get better" is to play more and more. In order to progress, you have to farm your little heart out in one way or another: either weeks at a time PvPing to make your rank or weeks at a time getting materials for and "conquering" raid instances, or dungeons where you get "epic loot" (pixilated things that increase your abilities, therefore making you "better"). And what do you do after these mighty dungeons fall before you and your friend's wrath? Go back the next week (not sooner, Blizzard made sure you can only raid the best instances once a week) and do it again (imagine if Alexander the Great had to push across the Middle East every damn week).

What does this mean? Well, to our average "serious" player this equates to anywhere between 12 hours (for the casual and usually "useless" player) to honestly 10 hours a day, seven days a week for those "hardcore" gamers. During my stint, I was playing about 30 hours a week (and still finding it hard to keep up with my farming) and logging on during my work day in order to keep up with all the guild happenings and to do my scheduling and tracking for the raids. A lot of time went into the development of new policies which took our friendly and family-oriented guild further and further away from its roots but closer to the end goal. Honestly, what that end goal is I'm not totally sure - there is truly no end to the game and every time you feel like you're satisfied with your progress, another aspect of the game is revealed and, well, you just aren't as cool as you can be again.

There are three problems that arise from WoW: the time it requires to do anything "important" is astounding, it gives people a false sense of accomplishment, and when you're a leader, and get wrapped up in it, no matter how much you care or want people to care, you're doing the wrong thing.

First off, let's go back to the time it takes to accomplish anything in the game. To really be successful, you need to at least invest 12 hours a week, and that is bare minimum. From a leadership perspective, that 12 hours would be laughed at. That's the guy who comes unprepared to raid and has to leave half way through because he has work in the morning or is going out or some other thing that shows "lack of commitment". To the extreme there is the guildie who is always on and ready to help. The "good guildie" who plays about 10 hours a day and seven days a week. Yes, that's almost two full-time jobs. Funny, no one ever asks any questions, though.

The worst though are the people you know have time commitments. People with families and significant others. I am not one to judge a person's situation, but when a father/husband plays a video game all night long, seven days a week, after getting home from work, very involved instances that soak up hours and require concentration, it makes me queasy that I encouraged that. Others include the kids you know aren't doing their homework and confide in you they are failing out of high school or college but don't want to miss their chance at loot, the long-term girl/boyfriend who is skipping out on a date (or their anniversary - I've seen it) to play (and in some cases flirt constantly), the professional taking yet another day off from work to farm mats or grind their reputations up with in-game factions to get "valuable" quest rewards, etc... I'm not one to tell people how to spend their time, but it gets ridiculous when you take a step back.

The game also provides people with a false sense of security, accomplishment, and purpose. Anyone can be a superhero here if they have the time to put in. Not only that, a few times I've seen this breed the "rockstar" personality in people who have no confidence at all in real life. Don't get me wrong, building confidence is a good thing and something, if honed appropriately, the game can do very right. But in more than a few cases, very immature people with bad attitudes are catered to (even after insulting or degrading others "in public") because they are "better" than the rest. Usually this means they played a lot more and have better gear. I'd really hate to see how this "I'm better than you attitude" plays out in real life where it means jack how epic your loot is - when you say the wrong thing to the wrong person it's going to have repercussions and you can't just log out to avoid the effects of your actions.

And people put everything on the line for these accomplishments with which they associate much value. I know of children and spouses being forced to play and grind for their parents, threats of divorce, rampant neglect, failing grades in school, and thousands of dollars spent on "outsourcing" foreign help. For what, you ask? Honor. The desire to be the best for at least one week. To get the best loot in the game. What do these "heroes" receive? Why, cheers and accolades of course as they parade along in their new shiny gear... which is obsolete the first time they step into one of the premier instances. The accomplishment and sacrifice itself are meaningless a few days later. Then it's usually off to the races again.

Finally, when you're a leader there is a call (or more appropriately a demand) for success. Usually those you represent want to keep progressing. They want to keep improving. They want more access to the best things. It is on you to provide it. In my experience, when you fail to progress fast enough, waves ripple throughout the guild and people become dissatisfied. It's your fault, no matter what. Everything you've done to keep things fair and provide for everyone does not mean a damn thing. A few will stand up for you, but when you have 150 people who all want 150 different things, you end up listening to 150 voices complaining about the job you're doing. This volunteer job usually takes at least 10 extra hours a week (on top of regular playing). Towards the end of my year of service, I apparently couldn't do anything right with my class. I had to rotate people to make sure everyone was getting a fair shot. I wrote actual mathematical proofs the allowed for fair and effective (yes, both) raid distribution according to efficiency, speed, and guild class population. I even rotated myself more than any other class member. People still took it upon themselves to tell me what I was doing wrong (constantly) and how their way was more fair (usually for them).

The thing that kicked me in the ass more than anything else was I really cared if my guildies were getting what they wanted out of the experience. I truly thought my efforts would make them happy. I wanted to make a difference to them. The greedy and socially phobic high school kid I thought I could help through the game, all of the couples (both married and not) who were falling apart because of the game I thought I could rescue, the girl who was deeply wounded by a guy who left her for the game but was herself addicted I thought I could save, not to mention a host of others, I thought my efforts were helping. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: I was providing them with an escape from their problems and nurturing the very thing that was holding them back. Oh yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks after I had changed so much and lost enough of myself that the most wonderful girl I ever met broke up with me.

I remember clearly after fumbling around life for a few weeks that I dragged myself into the bathroom to get ready for work. I was tired because I was up until close to 2 AM raiding. Every week I read though email or I would run into one of my "real" friends and I'd hear "Andy, what's up, I haven't seen you in a while." I looked in the mirror and in a cinemaesque turn of events and a biblical moment of clarity, told myself "I haven't seen me in a while either."

That did it. I wanted to do the things I wanted to do again and be with the people who appreciated me even if I abandoned them for a year and sucked to high heaven as a friend. The prodigal son returned and my friends were happy. The best advice I got was from the girl who dumped me for being a jackass (and after I decided to really quit and be "myself again" became one of, if not my best friend in the entire world), who said "your real friends like you even when you screw up." It's true.

Funny side note was the reaction I got from the guild that I spent a year pouring my heart and soul into. I made my post in the guild forums saying I was leaving (half of it RPing - something that doesn't happen after you start raiding) and that it was time for me to move on. Three days later I didn't exist any more. The machine kept on moving without this gear. A few people asked me over email (and when I logged on to clean out the old bank) when I was coming back (I'm not going to). There are a few others I keep in contact with and am planning on going to visit sooner or later so I can hang out in person and they can finally meet me. But in the end being forgotten about so soon after still left a bittersweet taste. But one that was a lot easier to swallow than the one I chugged down every day for the better part of a year.

Don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right. At times it was a fun game that allowed me to keep in contact with friends who lived far away. More importantly it introduced me to some of the best real life friends I've ever met. However, it did take an undeniable toll on me and is taking a far greater one on many, many people when taken too far.
 

InlineFive

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2003
9,599
2
0
Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
The top of what you ask? The height of World of Warcraft greatness.

A few weeks ago, a good friend of mine quit playing Warcraft. He was a council member on what is now one of the oldest guilds in the world, the type of position coveted by many of the 7 million people who play the game today, but which only a few ever get.

When he quit, I asked him if he would write a guest blog post about the experience. What follows is a cautionary tale about the pull an escape from reality can have on you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

60 levels, 30+ epics, a few really good "real life" friends, a seat on the oldest and largest guild on our server's council, 70+ days "/played," and one "real" year later...

Mr. Yeager asked me to write this "guest blog" for him. I figured I should oblige him this request - it was none other than Mr. Yeager who first introduced me to (begged for me to buy, actually :p) the World of Warcraft. It was the "perfect storm" for me; a time in my life when I was unemployed, living at my family's house far from my friends, and had just finished my engineering degree and was taking a little time to find a job. I had a lot of free time on my hands and WoW gave me a place to spend it.

This could be a many page epic tale, but I figure I'd give you the brief history and pertinent information. The guild Mr. Yeager got me into and with which I became an officer is the oldest and largest on the server I played on. It is around 18 months old and extremely well-versed in endgame instances. I was both the "mage class lead" and an officer. I have many very good friends I met through WoW (in real life - no kidding) and even have been "involved" with another councilor in real life (yes, I know, I'm weird for meeting girls through an online video game but honestly, ask Mr. Yeager, she's head and shoulders better than all the girls I met DJing, waiting tables, in college, and bartending at clubs in Philly). But I digress...

I just left WoW permanently. I was a leader in one of the largest and most respected guilds in the world, a well-equipped and well-versed mage, and considered myself to have many close friends in my guild. Why did I leave? Simple: Blizzard has created an alternate universe where we don't have to be ourselves when we don't want to be. From my vantage point as a guild decision maker, I've seen it destroy more families and friendships and take a huge toll on individuals than any drug on the market today, and that means a lot coming from an ex-club DJ.

It took a huge personal toll on me. To illustrate the impact it had, let's look at me one year later. When I started playing, I was working towards getting into the best shape of my life (and making good progress, too). Now a year later, I'm about 30 pounds heavier that I was back then, and it is not muscle. I had a lot of hobbies including DJing (which I was pretty accomplished at) and music as well as writing and martial arts. I haven't touched a record or my guitar for over a year and I think if I tried any Kung Fu my gut would throw my back out. Finally, and most significantly, I had a very satisfying social life before. My friends and I would go out and there were things to do every night of the week. Now a year later, I realize my true friends are the greatest people in the world because the fact I came out of my room, turned the lights on, and watched a movie with them still means something. They still are having a great time teasing me at my expense, however, which shows they still love me and they haven't changed.

These changes are miniscule, however, compared to what has happened in quite a few other people's lives. Some background... Blizzard created a game that you simply can not win. Not only that, the only way to "get better" is to play more and more. In order to progress, you have to farm your little heart out in one way or another: either weeks at a time PvPing to make your rank or weeks at a time getting materials for and "conquering" raid instances, or dungeons where you get "epic loot" (pixilated things that increase your abilities, therefore making you "better"). And what do you do after these mighty dungeons fall before you and your friend's wrath? Go back the next week (not sooner, Blizzard made sure you can only raid the best instances once a week) and do it again (imagine if Alexander the Great had to push across the Middle East every damn week).

What does this mean? Well, to our average "serious" player this equates to anywhere between 12 hours (for the casual and usually "useless" player) to honestly 10 hours a day, seven days a week for those "hardcore" gamers. During my stint, I was playing about 30 hours a week (and still finding it hard to keep up with my farming) and logging on during my work day in order to keep up with all the guild happenings and to do my scheduling and tracking for the raids. A lot of time went into the development of new policies which took our friendly and family-oriented guild further and further away from its roots but closer to the end goal. Honestly, what that end goal is I'm not totally sure - there is truly no end to the game and every time you feel like you're satisfied with your progress, another aspect of the game is revealed and, well, you just aren't as cool as you can be again.

There are three problems that arise from WoW: the time it requires to do anything "important" is astounding, it gives people a false sense of accomplishment, and when you're a leader, and get wrapped up in it, no matter how much you care or want people to care, you're doing the wrong thing.

First off, let's go back to the time it takes to accomplish anything in the game. To really be successful, you need to at least invest 12 hours a week, and that is bare minimum. From a leadership perspective, that 12 hours would be laughed at. That's the guy who comes unprepared to raid and has to leave half way through because he has work in the morning or is going out or some other thing that shows "lack of commitment". To the extreme there is the guildie who is always on and ready to help. The "good guildie" who plays about 10 hours a day and seven days a week. Yes, that's almost two full-time jobs. Funny, no one ever asks any questions, though.

The worst though are the people you know have time commitments. People with families and significant others. I am not one to judge a person's situation, but when a father/husband plays a video game all night long, seven days a week, after getting home from work, very involved instances that soak up hours and require concentration, it makes me queasy that I encouraged that. Others include the kids you know aren't doing their homework and confide in you they are failing out of high school or college but don't want to miss their chance at loot, the long-term girl/boyfriend who is skipping out on a date (or their anniversary - I've seen it) to play (and in some cases flirt constantly), the professional taking yet another day off from work to farm mats or grind their reputations up with in-game factions to get "valuable" quest rewards, etc... I'm not one to tell people how to spend their time, but it gets ridiculous when you take a step back.

The game also provides people with a false sense of security, accomplishment, and purpose. Anyone can be a superhero here if they have the time to put in. Not only that, a few times I've seen this breed the "rockstar" personality in people who have no confidence at all in real life. Don't get me wrong, building confidence is a good thing and something, if honed appropriately, the game can do very right. But in more than a few cases, very immature people with bad attitudes are catered to (even after insulting or degrading others "in public") because they are "better" than the rest. Usually this means they played a lot more and have better gear. I'd really hate to see how this "I'm better than you attitude" plays out in real life where it means jack how epic your loot is - when you say the wrong thing to the wrong person it's going to have repercussions and you can't just log out to avoid the effects of your actions.

And people put everything on the line for these accomplishments with which they associate much value. I know of children and spouses being forced to play and grind for their parents, threats of divorce, rampant neglect, failing grades in school, and thousands of dollars spent on "outsourcing" foreign help. For what, you ask? Honor. The desire to be the best for at least one week. To get the best loot in the game. What do these "heroes" receive? Why, cheers and accolades of course as they parade along in their new shiny gear... which is obsolete the first time they step into one of the premier instances. The accomplishment and sacrifice itself are meaningless a few days later. Then it's usually off to the races again.

Finally, when you're a leader there is a call (or more appropriately a demand) for success. Usually those you represent want to keep progressing. They want to keep improving. They want more access to the best things. It is on you to provide it. In my experience, when you fail to progress fast enough, waves ripple throughout the guild and people become dissatisfied. It's your fault, no matter what. Everything you've done to keep things fair and provide for everyone does not mean a damn thing. A few will stand up for you, but when you have 150 people who all want 150 different things, you end up listening to 150 voices complaining about the job you're doing. This volunteer job usually takes at least 10 extra hours a week (on top of regular playing). Towards the end of my year of service, I apparently couldn't do anything right with my class. I had to rotate people to make sure everyone was getting a fair shot. I wrote actual mathematical proofs the allowed for fair and effective (yes, both) raid distribution according to efficiency, speed, and guild class population. I even rotated myself more than any other class member. People still took it upon themselves to tell me what I was doing wrong (constantly) and how their way was more fair (usually for them).

The thing that kicked me in the ass more than anything else was I really cared if my guildies were getting what they wanted out of the experience. I truly thought my efforts would make them happy. I wanted to make a difference to them. The greedy and socially phobic high school kid I thought I could help through the game, all of the couples (both married and not) who were falling apart because of the game I thought I could rescue, the girl who was deeply wounded by a guy who left her for the game but was herself addicted I thought I could save, not to mention a host of others, I thought my efforts were helping. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: I was providing them with an escape from their problems and nurturing the very thing that was holding them back. Oh yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks after I had changed so much and lost enough of myself that the most wonderful girl I ever met broke up with me.

I remember clearly after fumbling around life for a few weeks that I dragged myself into the bathroom to get ready for work. I was tired because I was up until close to 2 AM raiding. Every week I read though email or I would run into one of my "real" friends and I'd hear "Andy, what's up, I haven't seen you in a while." I looked in the mirror and in a cinemaesque turn of events and a biblical moment of clarity, told myself "I haven't seen me in a while either."

That did it. I wanted to do the things I wanted to do again and be with the people who appreciated me even if I abandoned them for a year and sucked to high heaven as a friend. The prodigal son returned and my friends were happy. The best advice I got was from the girl who dumped me for being a jackass (and after I decided to really quit and be "myself again" became one of, if not my best friend in the entire world), who said "your real friends like you even when you screw up." It's true.

Funny side note was the reaction I got from the guild that I spent a year pouring my heart and soul into. I made my post in the guild forums saying I was leaving (half of it RPing - something that doesn't happen after you start raiding) and that it was time for me to move on. Three days later I didn't exist any more. The machine kept on moving without this gear. A few people asked me over email (and when I logged on to clean out the old bank) when I was coming back (I'm not going to). There are a few others I keep in contact with and am planning on going to visit sooner or later so I can hang out in person and they can finally meet me. But in the end being forgotten about so soon after still left a bittersweet taste. But one that was a lot easier to swallow than the one I chugged down every day for the better part of a year.

Don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right. At times it was a fun game that allowed me to keep in contact with friends who lived far away. More importantly it introduced me to some of the best real life friends I've ever met. However, it did take an undeniable toll on me and is taking a far greater one on many, many people when taken too far.

never finished a computer game or video game in my life before I started playing WoW. I started dozens of them ?. UT, NWN, Donkey Kong, Diablo ? and I always got halfway through or close to the end and realized that I was wasting hours a day on something that didn?t matter at all. So I?d put it down and go back to reading or writing or playing music or doing something else that I enjoyed. I figured it was something about lacking that particular chromosome, or possibly being just too practical for my own good. When my friend and co-guild founder convinced me to start playing WoW, I never thought I?d make it to 60. I really didn?t think that the guild we founded with four people (a couple naked dwarves, a human and a naked gnome) after-hours in a little back-office cubicle on Market Street in Philadelphia would get where it is today.

It?s going on two years now, and I?m still playing. Ok, I haven?t ?finished? it ? Andy?s right about that, there is no end. But why is this game different from all the others that I tried? For me ? (personally, not speaking for anyone else here) it?s because it does have an impact on my real life. I got a Masters degree in policy from one of the most difficult schools in the country while at the same time playing WoW and working a part time job. I would come home from a busy day and think about how to use what I learned to make the guild work better. It was a way for me to practice what I was learning and to discover what was involved with leading people (mostly getting all the blame and no thanks, it seems :p). I?ve learned the lessons of clear communication, sacrifice, compassion, tough love ... and balance. I plan to use these skills in my professional life. So in short, I play the game because I get something tangible out of it.

That?s not all. I enjoy it. I like being the very best player I can be; whether I?m playing a priest or a mage or a twink druid, you can bet that I?m crunching numbers and reading theory and strategy and trying to make every action or every cast more efficient. You could say I?m driven, but I feel like it keeps me alert mentally. The same way that I play tetris and bejewled incessantly to work on my spatial awareness, I like reading strategies for boss fights and thinking about new ways to do them and how different people with different specs and strengths can contribute to or change the fight. It?s fun.

I also do it to play with my friends: ones that I would never get to see otherwise because they?re in different states or different countries. I once quit a twink guild because the guild leader said ?I don't want people in my guild who have the attitude "screw this guild i'm sticking by my friends" You are NOT welcome in our guild.? (That?s leadership right there, lmao.) Our unofficial guild motto has always been RL > WOW, friends come first. The lesson? If it stops being fun, I walk.

I haven?t given up large amounts of my life to the game. Our guild doesn?t demand a given number of hours or days a week (compared to many raiding guilds, we?re laughably ?inefficient? in those terms? but we try to remember that people have lives.) I miss at least one raid a week to go out with friends, go clubbing, or watch a movie with my family. I hardly ever farm. I usually play the auction-house for fifteen minutes before I go to bed at night. I actually gave up herbalism because I didn?t have time for it (and I wanted to DE the stuff my ex gave me when we broke up >.>). If I start feeling frustrated, that the demands of people in the game are getting to high, or that I don?t have anything else to do ? I walk away. I go for a walk, pursue one of my other hobbies, or call a friend. Soon enough I?m happy to come back, because I enjoy it and because there are people in the game whom I love and who make it worthwhile for me to play.

Those are my three keys, and whenever someone asks me if I think they should quit that?s what I ask them. Are you getting something out of it? Is it fun? Are you sacrificing things in real life to do it? Basically, do you have things in perspective and realize that it?s a game?

It was on this basis that I told Andy to quit. It?s true! I did. In my opinion, he was taking the criticisms too personally, he wasn?t getting anything out of it (he?s an engineer, not a policy maker after all), it had long since stopped being fun for him, and he clearly regretted the sacrifices he was making in his life to play it. There are many many people that I think can take a lesson from his story, and many stories that are far more shocking and terrifying than the one he told, but the point is the same. Know yourself, keep things in perspective, and keep life in a balance. In all things, not just in this.

So in short, I?m glad Andy quit the game. Our friendship is much deeper now than it ever was before (and let?s ignore for now the fact that I wouldn?t even know him or Yeager or Chuck ? or Robert or Brian or Lisa or John or Jim or Shannon or Victor or Kate or Will or Heather or Tim or over a hundred other people if it weren?t for WoW.) It?s a decision that everyone needs to make for themselves, and it?s up to everyone to take care of their own lives. For me, that can include the World of Warcraft ? for the time being. ^.^
 

Darthvoy

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,825
1
0
my buddy was exactly the same...once his g/f left him for not having a job or doing anything with his life he stopped playing.
 

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
So I still would like any advice on what i should recommend to him.

and for people like this...

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
stop trying to change the way he wants to live his life. he will seek help when he wants it.

Dont bother posting, i am going to get involved and do as much as i possibly can to try to change him. I dont want to stand around while he destroys his chances of making a decent life for himself. He is the same age as me and isnt doing sh1t with his life. He hates living with his dad, but continues to live there because he doesnt have the financial means to get out of his situation. My thoughts are that his first objective, should be to finish school.
 

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
Originally posted by: pontifex
didn't you post this before or was that someone else?

I have probably posted about him previously, but i dont remember.

He just told me today that he might "have" to move to NC, and i was like WTF.

I am mostly looking for some ideas on what he should try to work towards, or advice i can offer him.
 

blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,453
10
81
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
Originally posted by: pontifex
didn't you post this before or was that someone else?

I have probably posted about him previously, but i dont remember.

He just told me today that he might "have" to move to NC, and i was like WTF.

I am mostly looking for some ideas on what he should try to work towards, or advice i can offer him.

maybe you can get him to try to quit for a month.
 

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
sell everything he owns and join the military

I suggested military, and hes like "I dont wanna kill people" I told him he was retarded if he thought thats all the military did, but i dont have much military knowledge, so i didnt have much of a response.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
So I still would like any advice on what i should recommend to him.

and for people like this...

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
stop trying to change the way he wants to live his life. he will seek help when he wants it.

Dont bother posting, i am going to get involved and do as much as i possibly can to try to change him. I dont want to stand around while he destroys his chances of making a decent life for himself. He is the same age as me and isnt doing sh1t with his life. He hates living with his dad, but continues to live there because he doesnt have the financial means to get out of his situation. My thoughts are that his first objective, should be to finish school.

dude.....you cant change someone that doesn't want to change. Who do you think you are? His life isn't your responsibility. Concentrate on surrounding yourself with positive, successful people. Don't let others bring you down. He will come around on his own time and thats the only way.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
So I still would like any advice on what i should recommend to him.

and for people like this...

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
stop trying to change the way he wants to live his life. he will seek help when he wants it.

Dont bother posting, i am going to get involved and do as much as i possibly can to try to change him. I dont want to stand around while he destroys his chances of making a decent life for himself. He is the same age as me and isnt doing sh1t with his life. He hates living with his dad, but continues to live there because he doesnt have the financial means to get out of his situation. My thoughts are that his first objective, should be to finish school.

dude.....you cant change someone that doesn't want to change. Who do you think you are? His life isn't your responsibility. Concentrate on surrounding yourself with positive, successful people. Don't let others bring you down. He will come around on his own time and thats the only way.

i can see both sides of this. but its his friend. a friend should do what he can to help a friend that may not be doing something healthy. the guy isn't going to school, sounds like he doesn't have a job, and basically doesn't do anything but play WoW. thats not good and if my friend was like this, i would be concerned
 

astrosfan90

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2005
1,156
0
0
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

dude.....you cant change someone that doesn't want to change. Who do you think you are? His life isn't your responsibility. Concentrate on surrounding yourself with positive, successful people. Don't let others bring you down. He will come around on his own time and thats the only way.

QFT. As someone who played WoW entirely too much for entirely too long, I can tell you that the only way he's going to step away from the game and stay away from it is by realizing himself that it's causing him problems. And he will eventually realize.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
So I still would like any advice on what i should recommend to him.

and for people like this...

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
stop trying to change the way he wants to live his life. he will seek help when he wants it.

Dont bother posting, i am going to get involved and do as much as i possibly can to try to change him. I dont want to stand around while he destroys his chances of making a decent life for himself. He is the same age as me and isnt doing sh1t with his life. He hates living with his dad, but continues to live there because he doesnt have the financial means to get out of his situation. My thoughts are that his first objective, should be to finish school.

dude.....you cant change someone that doesn't want to change. Who do you think you are? His life isn't your responsibility. Concentrate on surrounding yourself with positive, successful people. Don't let others bring you down. He will come around on his own time and thats the only way.

i can see both sides of this. but its his friend. a friend should do what he can to help a friend that may not be doing something healthy. the guy isn't going to school, sounds like he doesn't have a job, and basically doesn't do anything but play WoW. thats not good and if my friend was like this, i would be concerned

so your going to put your life on hold because some ultra priviledged asshat doesn't care to do anything useful with his life? you can have that sh1t if you want but not me.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
Originally posted by: FoBoT
sell everything he owns and join the military

I suggested military, and hes like "I dont wanna kill people" I told him he was retarded if he thought thats all the military did, but i dont have much military knowledge, so i didnt have much of a response.

he can be a corpman (medic) and help people, he doesn't have to kill anybody
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
So I still would like any advice on what i should recommend to him.

and for people like this...

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
stop trying to change the way he wants to live his life. he will seek help when he wants it.

Dont bother posting, i am going to get involved and do as much as i possibly can to try to change him. I dont want to stand around while he destroys his chances of making a decent life for himself. He is the same age as me and isnt doing sh1t with his life. He hates living with his dad, but continues to live there because he doesnt have the financial means to get out of his situation. My thoughts are that his first objective, should be to finish school.

dude.....you cant change someone that doesn't want to change. Who do you think you are? His life isn't your responsibility. Concentrate on surrounding yourself with positive, successful people. Don't let others bring you down. He will come around on his own time and thats the only way.

i can see both sides of this. but its his friend. a friend should do what he can to help a friend that may not be doing something healthy. the guy isn't going to school, sounds like he doesn't have a job, and basically doesn't do anything but play WoW. thats not good and if my friend was like this, i would be concerned

so your going to put your life on hold because some ultra priviledged asshat doesn't care to do anything useful with his life? you can have that sh1t if you want but not me.

Putting his life on hold? So he should just abandon any friends that aren't as ambitious as he is? Do you have any real friends, or do you just see them all as networking opportunities?
 

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: ArchCenturion
Originally posted by: FoBoT
sell everything he owns and join the military

I suggested military, and hes like "I dont wanna kill people" I told him he was retarded if he thought thats all the military did, but i dont have much military knowledge, so i didnt have much of a response.

he can be a corpman (medic) and help people, he doesn't have to kill anybody

Lol, thats kinda what i told him, i told him it would be like he was a priest flash healing everyone. I said he could throw medkits at injured soldiers and stuff. he laughed and called me a jackass.
 

ArchCenturion

Senior member
Aug 6, 2006
890
0
0
Originally posted by: ggnl
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
so your going to put your life on hold because some ultra priviledged asshat doesn't care to do anything useful with his life? you can have that sh1t if you want but not me.

Putting his life on hold? So he should just abandon any friends that aren't as ambitious as he is? Do you have any real friends, or do you just see them all as networking opportunities?

Yea, keep in mind he is one of my best friends. hes not some random person that i see fvcking up his life. Don't you have people you want to see succeed?

I am not trying to force him to do anything in particular, I just want to be someone that can strongly recommend good viable alternatives to what he is doing.

I dont want to look back in 10 years, and think that I should have tried harder to set him up on a decent path.
I know there will be more people that say to me i should mind my own business, and "he will come around" but I dont believe that is true, friends are often extremely influential in how we develope, and the choices that we make.

I dont want to see his life get crappier. Ive watched it sort degrade over the last 3 years or so.