need advice on buying a used car

[klemmaniac]

If you had a out the door $13k budget for a used hatchback (preferably a Toyota Yaris or Honda Fit), and were looking to use the car for city driving and an occasional road trip and wanted it to last as long as possible with low maintenance costs in mind, what kind of listing would you be looking for - what mileage limit, model year, trim etc.? I'm trying to focus my search and get an idea of what's realistic and attainable given my budget and get the most bang out of my buck. Color, personality, bells and whistles are not important to me - just looking for something reliable that will last a very long time and require minimum or basic inexpensive maintenance (hence Toyotas and Hondas). I've been limiting my search to cars with less than 40k miles, clean carfax and not older than 2010. What would you look for with that budget and those types of aims in mind? Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Could probably swing a bare bones new honda fit for a little bit more. I'd personally do that instead and enjoy the warranty and piece of mind.

 

[klemmaniac]

Could probably swing a bare bones new honda fit for a little bit more. I'd personally do that instead and enjoy the warranty and piece of mind.

A new Fit would be great, but the lowest out the door price I can find is going to be at least $17,000, probably more. What is the lowest out the door price do you think I could get new? To be honest I'm pretty partial to the '12-'13 models and would prefer to let everyone else find out about and work out the kinks on newer models. Certified pre-owned would also be ideal, but still the cheapest I've found would be around 15-16k out the door. Unfortunately I'm on a tight budget - and I'm trying to pay cash to stay out of debt. I would possibly be able to do some financially juggling and shoot for a $14k out the door price, but I'd have to go on a Ramen noodles diet.

 

[T2urtle]

I personally would go for a matrix or if that scion IM is low priced enough.

Reason is its slightly bigger cargo and a bigger motor. Bigger motors have to do less work and it seems to get similar Mpg. It probably won't hit 40mpg but it's up there.

I have a friend who bought a Fit sport. He got it for the price and mpg. He seems to have driving now. I joke about saying he is car hell, but he agreed saying it does feel like it. The fuel savings wasn't worth it in the end.

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[OILFIELDTRASH]

I had a 12 fit. Great little car but the new model is light years ahead of it. More power, better ride, much better mpg. Old model didn't even have Bluetooth. I wouldn't even consider a last gen at this point. You wouldn't pay much interest on a small 36 month loan. Rates would be great with 10k down and a short term.

 

[klemmaniac]

I personally would go for a matrix or if that scion IM is low priced enough.

Reason is its slightly bigger cargo and a bigger motor. Bigger motors have to do less work and it seems to get similar Mpg. It probably won't hit 40mpg but it's up there.

I have a friend who bought a Fit sport. He got it for the price and mpg. He seems to have driving now. I joke about saying he is car hell, but he agreed saying it does feel like it. The fuel savings wasn't worth it in the end.



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Why exactly does your friend hate the Fit?
I've started looking at Scions and it looks like they're cheaper in general. The Matrix doesn't sit as well with me since it isn't in production anymore and seems like a car for tinkerers based on a forum or two I saw-maybe just my impression-obviously I'm looking for something hands off, just need it to work well for a long time and not give me annoying problems to fix. I'll have to look into the Scions more-it seems like the Fit and Yaris communities are more active online which I find helpful-I'll see I can find a Good Scion forum. What kind of listing for a Fit or Yaris would you look for if you we're in my shoes with the same budget and goal of long term low maintenance use? My current idea is 12-13 Fit or 11-15 Yaris in excellent condition with less than 40k mi. Is this too narrow a search field or unrealistic for my budget in your opinion?

As tempting as it would be to splurge for a new Fit it would screw up my financial peace of mind. I currently freelance and work contracts and may be panning a move, so I'm trying to plan ahead in case there is a dry spell-hence my strict budget. As for the newer models vs last gen, the more bells n whistles, the more potential repairs, which I'm trying to avoid.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Just did this and went with a 2013 ford focus hatch with a 5 speed manual for $10k. I hate the yaris bleh. The fits where much more expensive, smaller, weaker, and didn't really get any better fuel mileage. I like the mazda 3 a lot but again used prices are much higher. The focus is considered pretty reliable, has a timing chain, and most of the problems people seem to have with it center around the auto/DCT trans which I avoided and it didn't hurt that a manual trans brought the price down about $3k. I also liked the ford fiesta but you get a lot more with the focus for very little more in cost plus the fiesta's rear seats don't fold flat which was a big deal to me.

 

[Yuriman]

My vote is for a Prius, if you're not going to get a 5MT Fit. Honda's CVTs are historically less reliable than their traditional automatics, and less reliable than Toyota's hybrid drivetrain. You can still expect 150-200k out of one, granted, but my 5MT Insight is at 210k now and still showing perfect compression, and the only thing it has needed in the last 16 years (outside of oil changes and tires) is a master clutch cylinder. I don't see why I couldn't get another 200k out of it.

The Fit is much larger inside than a Prius C, but you can find used, relatively low-mile Prius, Prius C and Prius V models in that price range, all of which are incredibly reliable and will deliver superior fuel economy numbers to the Fit.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Something reliable (made in Japan), affordable ($10K-14K), economical (25/30MPG), and won't make you hate life? Nissan Cube.

 

[klemmaniac]

My vote is for a Prius, if you're not going to get a 5MT Fit. Honda's CVTs are historically less reliable than their traditional automatics, and less reliable than Toyota's hybrid drivetrain. You can still expect 150-200k out of one, granted, but my 5MT Insight is at 210k now and still showing perfect compression, and the only thing it has needed in the last 16 years (outside of oil changes and tires) is a master clutch cylinder. I don't see why I couldn't get another 200k out of it.

The Fit is much larger inside than a Prius C, but you can find used, relatively low-mile Prius, Prius C and Prius V models in that price range, all of which are incredibly reliable and will deliver superior fuel economy numbers to the Fit.

Thanks for the info. I have noted not to get a honda with CVT and since I am sticking with looking at 2013 fits or older, I think that rules out that option anyways. I did start looking at Prius cars but am worried about maintenance over time since hybrids are a different animal and may require more specialized work and parts, which would be more expensive. Are my concerns unjustified in your opinion? Plus I really could use the extra space in the Fit.

I looked at the Nissan Cube and as much as I would like to get an ugly box car (it doesn't bother me and I think having an ugly car would actually be funny), I have decided to stick with Toyota and Honda cars for their proven track record on reliability. I keep reading mixed things about Nissans/Hyundais/Kia though I know they have come a long way.

 

[Torn Mind]

Why exactly does your friend hate the Fit?
I've started looking at Scions and it looks like they're cheaper in general. The Matrix doesn't sit as well with me since it isn't in production anymore and seems like a car for tinkerers based on a forum or two I saw-maybe just my impression-obviously I'm looking for something hands off, just need it to work well for a long time and not give me annoying problems to fix. I'll have to look into the Scions more-it seems like the Fit and Yaris communities are more active online which I find helpful-I'll see I can find a Good Scion forum. What kind of listing for a Fit or Yaris would you look for if you we're in my shoes with the same budget and goal of long term low maintenance use? My current idea is 12-13 Fit or 11-15 Yaris in excellent condition with less than 40k mi. Is this too narrow a search field or unrealistic for my budget in your opinion?

As tempting as it would be to splurge for a new Fit it would screw up my financial peace of mind. I currently freelance and work contracts so I'm trying to plan ahead in case there is a dry spell-hence my strict budget. As for the newer models vs last gen, the more bells n whistles, the more potential repairs, which I'm trying to avoid.

The Matrix is an 8th or 9th gen Corolla in everything but the trunk/hatch area and rear doors. The 1ZZ-FE engine or 2ZR-FE engine is what most of them will have getting. It's actual use is likely very mundane, and no one is going to go to forums and say "went to the grocery store in my Matrix" every time they go.

The potential MAJOR problem is the seats in the Matrix. Of course every person is different, but my body is poorly supported by the seat of the Matrix and my back suffers for it. Thankfully, it's my mom's car and not mine.

 

[klemmaniac]

The Matrix is an 8th or 9th gen Corolla in everything but the trunk/hatch area and rear doors. The 1ZZ-FE engine or 2ZR-FE engine is what most of them will have getting. It's actual use is likely very mundane, and no one is going to go to forums and say "went to the grocery store in my Matrix" every time they go.

The potential MAJOR problem is the seats in the Matrix. Of course every person is different, but my body is poorly supported by the seat of the Matrix and my back suffers for it. Thankfully, it's my mom's car and not mine.

Thanks. The reason I started looking at the Matrix was because it was based on the Corolla. My concern is that because it's out of production, maintenance may be an issue when it comes to parts down the road. There have also been a lot of recalls it seems - kind of a pain to have the dealer do all that if it hasn't been done and the potential for screwups while working on the car is there too. I wish they still made them - the car sounds perfect for what I'm looking for...reliability, functionality, simplicity, longevity in a hatchback. I'm thinking I should probably stick to a Honda Fit, Yaris, or Scion xB (2012 models with low miles are within budget, but I notice there are many TSBS for this model).

 

[monkeydelmagico]

CPO Kia Forte. The CPO program for Kia's and Hyundai is pretty stout.

Nothing against the honda or toyota but the used prices are too high

 

[T2urtle]

Something reliable (made in Japan), affordable ($10K-14K), economical (25/30MPG), and won't make you hate life? Nissan Cube.

I'm pretty sure every car named in this thread isn't made in japan.

While Honda and Toyota is known to be top in reliable cars in the 1980s-200x. Everyone has caught up to them or they have fallen. These days kia and hyuandi make it to the top of the list and Toyota/Honda is like 3rd. The only same thing is Chrysler being near the bottom.

I wouldn't exclusively look at honda/toyota. Find a car in ur budget that u like driving. All cars made like after 2005 should have a +90% of making it past 10 years and 150k with minimal issues. Even German cars.



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[klemmaniac]

I'm pretty sure every car named in this thread isn't made in japan.

While Honda and Toyota is known to be top in reliable cars in the 1980s-200x. Everyone has caught up to them or they have fallen. These days kia and hyuandi make it to the top of the list and Toyota/Honda is like 3rd. The only same thing is Chrysler being near the bottom.

I wouldn't exclusively look at honda/toyota. Find a car in ur budget that u like driving. All cars made like after 2005 should have a +90% of making it past 10 years and 150k with minimal issues. Even German cars.



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That's encouraging to know I can open up my options if I wanted and I know that the other brands have made a lot of progress. I can't shake my bad experience with a Hyundai Accent years ago and it just seems like I read about more problems and complaints from people with Kias/Hyundais etc. than with Toyotas/Honda. It could just be that forums and the internet are generally where people complain more about their problems with these vehicles than post when nothing's wrong. Still with my budget and unwillingness to take any risk in this purchase I'd feel better about getting a Toyota/Honda. I think I'd like both the Yaris or the Fit and really I just need something that works, fits my needs and will not cost me in the long run - the fun of driving it is secondary to me at this point unless I start making a lot more money.

 

[T2urtle]

That's encouraging to know I can open up my options if I wanted and I know that the other brands have made a lot of progress. I can't shake my bad experience with a Hyundai Accent years ago and it just seems like I read about more problems and complaints from people with Kias/Hyundais etc. than with Toyotas/Honda. It could just be that forums and the internet are generally where people complain more about their problems with these vehicles than post when nothing's wrong. Still with my budget and unwillingness to take any risk in this purchase I'd feel better about getting a Toyota/Honda. I think I'd like both the Yaris or the Fit and really I just need something that works, fits my needs and will not cost me in the long run - the fun of driving it is secondary to me at this point unless I start making a lot more money.

I get where u are coming from. The yaris never interested me other then the price tag on the 2 door hatch with manual trans. I think when it first came out u could buy it like at $14k out the door. But it's really bare inside, but bare means nothing to go wrong.

U want like a 2012 model for 10-12k, when those 2012 were selling new they were 15-18k. 6 years later they should be dropping near half the orginal cost. That's how I would like to buy a used car. Looking for value. Nothing against the fit/yaris. I'm sure they will have no issues going 10 years and 150k with minimal issues. I just don't see value. But the market controls that, people are willing to pay 75% of orginal cost of a car that's 6 years old.







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[klemmaniac]

I get where u are coming from. The yaris never interested me other then the price tag on the 2 door hatch with manual trans. I think when it first came out u could buy it like at $14k out the door. But it's really bare inside, but bare means nothing to go wrong.

U want like a 2012 model for 10-12k, when those 2012 were selling new they were 15-18k. 6 years later they should be dropping near half the orginal cost. That's how I would like to buy a used car. Looking for value. Nothing against the fit/yaris. I'm sure they will have no issues going 10 years and 150k with minimal issues. I just don't see value. But the market controls that, people are willing to pay 75% of orginal cost of a car that's 6 years old.
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Okay, I'll start looking out for 2012 models. I did find a 2015 with 12k mi for $12,000 - carfax looks clean too. I need to find a mechanic to check it out. How do you guys go about getting an inspection if you don't know a good mechanic who specializes in the car? Any internet resources or websites you use?

One question I just thought of: When I take a contract I usually work overseas and the car would have to sit at home for 3-4 months possibly without being used - I wonder if there are any potential problems this might cause that I should be aware of and if there is any advantage to having one car over another with this in mind. I remember reading somewhere that cars shouldn't sit for a long time and it's generally bad for them. Would this be a problem for a Yaris/Fit?

 

[Yuriman]

Thanks for the info. I have noted not to get a honda with CVT and since I am sticking with looking at 2013 fits or older, I think that rules out that option anyways. I did start looking at Prius cars but am worried about maintenance over time since hybrids are a different animal and may require more specialized work and parts, which would be more expensive. Are my concerns unjustified in your opinion? Plus I really could use the extra space in the Fit.

I looked at the Nissan Cube and as much as I would like to get an ugly box car (it doesn't bother me and I think having an ugly car would actually be funny), I have decided to stick with Toyota and Honda cars for their proven track record on reliability. I keep reading mixed things about Nissans/Hyundais/Kia though I know they have come a long way.

A Prius V is cavernous inside, compared with a Fit, and the electronics are bulletproof. The hybrid batteries will probably wear out in 12-15 years if you live in the south, or a little longer in the north, but otherwise you can expect it to be as or more reliable than a traditional car. Due to regenerative braking, it will eat brakes more slowly, and the partial electric propulsion cuts down on wear on the engine considerably. The transmission has no friction parts to wear out, and is probably among the most reliable transmissions on the road today.

EDIT: FWIW, replacement batteries for my Insight run about $1500 for a new one, or $500 for a refurbished pack. You'll save that in gas every year, and mine is currently 16 years old and still strong.

 

[klemmaniac]

A Prius V is cavernous inside, compared with a Fit, and the electronics are bulletproof. The hybrid batteries will probably wear out in 12-15 years if you live in the south, or a little longer in the north, but otherwise you can expect it to be as or more reliable than a traditional car. Due to regenerative braking, it will eat brakes more slowly, and the partial electric propulsion cuts down on wear on the engine considerably. The transmission has no friction parts to wear out, and is probably among the most reliable transmissions on the road today.

EDIT: FWIW, replacement batteries for my Insight run about $1500 for a new one, or $500 for a refurbished pack. You'll save that in gas every year, and mine is currently 16 years old and still strong.

You're definitely selling me on considering a Prius. My concern is if in an accident or something breaks o the car I won't be paying through the nose for specialized parts and service. Also would be concerned about finding mechanics specializing in hybrids but maybe that's not a concern these days. I'm pretty out of the loop when it comes to cars ( haven't needed one for a long time).

 

[Dr. Detroit]

TrueCar is showing the 5dr Hyundai Accent SE Automatic at $13,698 + TTL -

Far better choice to spend $2,000 more upfront for a brand new car that is far superior to the Yaris and 40,000 less miles.

If would also recommend the FordFocus. 160HP, 6spd auto and a Car & Driver 10 Best in 2012 & 2013. 2015's received exterior and interior updates.

 

[klemmaniac]

TrueCar is showing the 5dr Hyundai Accent SE Automatic at $13,698 + TTL -

Far better choice to spend $2,000 more upfront for a brand new car that is far superior to the Yaris and 40,000 less miles.

If would also recommend the FordFocus. 160HP, 6spd auto and a Car & Driver 10 Best in 2012 & 2013. 2015's received exterior and interior updates.

Thanks for the recommendations. I think I will stick with Toyota and Honda though. I had a hyundai accent years ago and didn't like it - started to fall apart well before 10 years too and I took care of it with oil changes etc. maybe I had a lemon, but I can't shake that experience now.

 

[tortillasoup]

I recommend the Prius. Batteries in the Prius are more reliable than in the Honda hybrids because they used a larger battery pack so it utilized less percentage of the total pack capacity.

 

[klemmaniac]

I recommend the Prius. Batteries in the Prius are more reliable than in the Honda hybrids because they used a larger battery pack so it utilized less percentage of the total pack capacity.

I would definitely only stick with a Prius if getting a Hybrid. I just can't get a guage on how "bulletproof" the Prius is and if something does go wrong how much more expensive or a hassle it would be to get it repaired. Until I can get a better idea of that and am able to weigh the risks and understand the pros and cons, I am sticking with a Yaris or Fit.

 

[tortillasoup]

I would definitely only stick with a Prius if getting a Hybrid. I just can't get a guage on how "bulletproof" the Prius is and if something does go wrong how much more expensive or a hassle it would be to get it repaired. Until I can get a better idea of that and am able to weigh the risks and understand the pros and cons, I am sticking with a Yaris or Fit.

Well if you look at the reliability reports for the Prius, they're in the top 5%. They're lower maintenance than most cars because they're all belt free 2010 Model year and later. As for issues covered by TSBs, that's one reason not to ever get the first year of any model as they'll have some issues that are what I'd call manufacturing defect/glitches vs. model wide issues. so like a 2012 Prius would be better than a 2010 or a 2013 Prius V would be better than a 2012 or a 2009 vs a 2004/2005. But even so, the issues aren't deal breakers but are annoying like with the gauge cluster not going over 300K miles on the 2004/5 Prius.

 

[Yuriman]

For what it's worth, I also have a Civic hybrid, and haven't found parts to be any more expensive than on the regular Civic. Given that the Prius is one of the most common vehicles on the road, it would surprise me if parts were any more expensive than on a Corolla.

EDIT: Hybrids are really not all that much more complicated than a traditional ICE-based car. You have some batteries and an extra electric motor, but you also get rid of the alternator, mechanical power steering, conventional automatic transmission computer and a whole slew of other things.