Need advice for bigger harddrive in my bimmer

[surfer_matt]

Hello to everybody,

this is my first posting after having read lots of information around SSDs - especially in this forum.:thumbsup:

My situation is that I have a 5 series bimmer with new HDD nav system called CIC.
The OEM installed HDD is a 80GB 2,5-inch IDE Toshiba MK8050GAC - specially designed for automotive / rugged use - using a qnx4 FS .
But of the total 80GB only 12.5GB can be used for own music data.

Now I'm thinking of replacing the OEM drive by a faster drive with more GB for my music.
My objectives are to overall speed up the system for example when calculation a new route etc. (faster) and to be able to store all my music data (40GB) on that drive (bigger).

Thatswhy I've the following questions:
- Will the use of a PATA SSD have a noticable effect on the CIC system performance?
I expect that CIC system will mainly read from the harddrive - so that read performance should be most relevant.
Unfortunately there aren't any benchmark data for the OEM Toshiba HDD available.

- Its also a challenge to find a 2.5 PATA SSD with 128GB on the market and they are quite expensive too.
Additionally I only found 1 SSD from Runcore (RCV-III-P2528-MWI) designed for automotive use.
I expect especially operating temp. significantly below 0 degree celsius matters during European winters.
All consumer SSDs only have 0°C - 70°C operating temperature - similar to the consumer HDD versions.


- To constrain my options even more - I didn't find any 2.5-inch IDE HDD designed for automotive use bigger than 80GB.

- What would you do in my situation?
1. Replace OEM HDD by SDD
2. Replace OEM HDD by faster + bigger HDD (not automotive adopted)
3. Stay with OEM HDD and use external SSD on USB port for music data


Thank you in advance for your advice

Matt

 

[FishAk]

SSD

 

[God Mode]

Post pictures of the CIC device and location etc.

 

[FishAk]

The CIC is in the dash, but the NAV unit is in the trunk or behind the rear seat- depending on the model. I think the drive is in the NAV, but newer models might have it in the CIC. I would definitely go with an SSD due to vibration, and I would use a SF drive for it's garbage collection, as I highly doubt TRIM is supported.

 

[surfer_matt]

Hi,
the CIC is the Car Information Computer and is located in the dash board.
The CIC unit contains the nav unit/gps, radio etc. and also the HDD for the data.
In this posting http://forums.5series.net/topic/99495-cic-retrofit-installation-log/page__view__findpost__p__1204696 you can see where it is located.
The picture shows a installed CCC (the predecessor) but the CIC unit is of same size, cubic and contains also the DVD drive.
I found a fitting 128GB SSD from Photofast G-Monster V3 with garbage collection.
I got the info from the German distributor that they use a native IDE controller from a Korean company called Eastwho.
Do somebody know and has experience with this SSD?

br,
Matt

 

[FishAk]

OK, it's been like 3 years since worked on those things, and if there was a problem with one of the boxes, we never opened them- just installed a new one.

A couple things to keep in mind:

You will loose the warranty on the CIC if you break the seal.

If the drive fails after you bring the car to the shop and it's programming is updated, that may affect you're vehicle warranty. The CIC was on it's way to being the central computer when I was there, and any programming is passed through it. I don't know how the innards work, but if any programming data is on the hard drive (as apposed to NAND inside the box it's self), this would cause problems. Reinstalling the old drive with the older programming (before returning the car to the shop) would likely affect all the modules that were updated since the new drive was installed.

The drive connectors and/or mounting might be proprietary. You should look at the original drive before you commit to a replacement.

Make sure to clone the original drive to the new one, in case there is vehicle programming data on the hard drive.

My guess is that, with the CIC being central to the car's programming, the HDD is not a part of the actual system, given the vulnerability of a HDD to G-forces. But I would assume that it is a part, just to be on the safe side.

Be very careful with that wood trim piece that runs across the dash. It's very brittle, and expensive. Use plastic prying tools, to tease it out.

 

[surfer_matt]

Hi FishAk,

the warranty is no issue due to the fact that I bought the CIC used to replace my older CCC.
Thatswhy unmounting all parts to get to the HDD is no problem, cause I've done it already several times.
Here a picute of the HDD location in the CIC unit http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3634066&postcount=21

I dont think that all programming runs over the CIC and is stored in the CIC, cause after installation of the used CIC all servicing data were immediatly there. That means this information was stored in a separate ECU.
Also starting ignition w/o CIC connected isn't a problem. So I would say, that CIC is the central part for all in-car entertainment incl. navigation etc. every function steered by the CIC.

In terms of cloning. I read in a forum that a sector by sector image of the OEM drive works with an bigger 2,5" IDE HDD.
The tricky part is to enlarge the music partition but there is already a solution.

Is somebody out there who did my planned upgrade already?

br,
Matt

 

[Emulex]

prob ask on bimmer forum man

 

[FishAk]

Yes, the Service info was stored in the instrument cluster, and all info needed to start the car is in the key, key reader, a small module in the driver's foot well, and the engine computer.

The CIC may have just been a pass-through, but programming equipment talked to the CIC, and info came/went to the other modules from there. You couldn't talk to the car withour a working CIC- even by bypassing the MOST bus, but I don't remember if it had to be the CIC programmed for the specific vehicle. Perhaps nothing except CIC/CCC specific data is stored there (and not necessarily in the HDD), and maybe update version info or something like that is there.

I would say that: I think if you copied the original disk to a replacement with something like Macrium Reflect, and then manipulated the partitions (if any) with Partition Wizard to make the media partition the size you want, a new disk would work fine.

But, since you already have a module that's not in sync with the rest of the car (depending on whether anything important for the other modules is stored on the central car computer), the above is probably mute, and you can just swap out the disk, and just re-install the stuff from the DVDs.

Have you already looked at the disk to see how it's set up with partitions, file system, ect?

 

[Emulex]

so did CIC (rtos) go to linux? either way the F/S should be *nix related.

 

[surfer_matt]

Hi,

the FS is a QNX4.x.
Here a screenshot of the partions http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6537595&postcount=35

Are there any experiences whether the operating temperature area of a consumer grade harddisk goes below the stated 0 degrees Celsius?
Because thats at the moment my major concern to use this grade of harddisk.

br,
Matt

 

[Emulex]

i wasn't impressed with CCC i just had a 335d - lag monster (compared to dinan stage 2 335i) but amazingly the first bmw i've ever had that would lay rubber from a brake-stand with traction control on. lol. felt like i was in a camaro.

 

[taltamir]

3. Stay with OEM HDD and use external SSD on USB port for music data

This looks like the most plausible solution. I would have said replace the HDD with an SSD if it was SATA, but being PATA is a huge problem for getting an SSD...

although, how much room is there there? maybe if you find a really small passively powered PATA to SATA adapter... maybe have to use a 1.8" SSD along with adapter?

 

[surfer_matt]

@ taltamir
The install room should be just enough to place a 2.5" drive.
So I dont think there is enough space for a passive SATA/PATA adapter.
I've read that the challenge with 1.8" drives is they've different voltage.

I still look for an answer to my question:
Did somebody already operated a consumer grade harddisk below 0 degrees Celsius?

br,
Matt

 

[DivideBYZero]

3. Stay with OEM HDD and use external SSD on USB port for music data

I vote with this. In my opinion it would be smarter to do a stealth install of a large SSD that connects to the USB port, rather than take apart the CIC and mess with the QNX filesystem.

And this is from a self confessed BMW electronics hacker.

 

[taltamir]

@ taltamir
The install room should be just enough to place a 2.5" drive.
So I dont think there is enough space for a passive SATA/PATA adapter.
I've read that the challenge with 1.8" drives is they've different voltage.

I still look for an answer to my question:
Did somebody already operated a consumer grade harddisk below 0 degrees Celsius?

br,
Matt

ok, how about this, do you think you can build a custom bay to hold the SSD and an adapter and run a cable from it to the dock? if not, just stick with the default HDD.