Need a real Server

[beyoku]

IBM Eserver 326

HP Proliant DL145

Sunfire V20v

Hello, all and thnaks in advance. I may need to buy a real server to do a lot of different things to. Data mining, compiling, mock trouble shooting, web host/stress testing. I would like a dual opteron server and im trying to spend around 2k. SCSI and onboard hardware diagnostic and management cpu is a MUST. Even though the HP has the most bang for the buck im leaning toward the Sun as it is certified to run Solaris. Im not sure how solaris would be on the HP or the IBM.
I am also told some of these systems are the same systems that can be purchased or supplied in "white box" form. Does anyone know where i can get this info on. OR instructions on building an actual box like this.
I will need it to run solaris, windoze and lunix. any suggestions or sites with reviews?

 

[hippotautamus]

You can run solaris on your x86 desktop if you want to, any of them should do so.

 

[beyoku]

Thats true, what about official support if i called in for tech help. Would they support it? Aslo would everything work out of the box? Or easy to config? im not sure how the solaris communtiy is as compared to the linux groups on getting such help on configing solaris on non native hardware.

 

[kobymu]

can you specify which services the server needs to provide, and to how many users, on a regular basis?

 

[Alaska]

Tyan makes a unit that's about the same as the HP, but I think it would be more expensive than the HP by the time you add processors, memory and drives.

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gx28b2881.html (available in either a U320 SCSI or a SATA model).

This is $1060 at eWiz.com (no CPU, memory, or drives), which is the only vendor that I have dealt with that has the SCSI model.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: kobymu
can you specify which services the server needs to provide, and to how many users, on a regular basis?

It will be doing A Lot of different server/workstation duties. Some video encoding- adobe aftereffects and premier (HD video). Photoshop manipulations of large files conversions 700-800 megs. print and file sever duties. Lan Game hosting. Webhosting/FTP hosting for maybe 2000 Users at any given point. hmm, what else. The possibilities are endless. I would like to have its so we could load different images on the fly or set up a dual/tri boot.
Basically we have 3 teams of people, some will be using it for knowledge building (study and hand on preparation for consulting work in the field), some for small business duties, and the other for the processing power behind some film production, and a final follout that needs to be downloaded via ftp that will be hosted on this server.

THanks for the link. That one is a bit more expensive once you add your gear. Is there any one here that does server purchase for their company? I talked to the some of the guys on my server ops team at work and our company (Fortune 500) is purely intel. We have some sun boxes but as far as x86=intel. We are using These Prolian G4s
which run at 3gz and are to me two slow for what im trying to do. I have a dual athlon mp that i pushed up to 2400 that could probably match that speed.

Edit: To answer the question the sever will be offline for a long time. We have a team of people that are learning how to support windows, solaris 9,19 and Linux. They are talking study courses and have gotten some certifications. They were previously going for CCNA/CCNP and the actual purchase of a router for real hands on trainging was one of the best moves we could do. They also need to mimic software enviroments for consulting work they do part time. During any regular day these people will be supporting the team that is working on he film production. Next year the server may be retired to the web for hosting, maybe not, but we plan for it to get heavy traffic; ie "slashdot effect" - What type of server would you need that would handle something such as the slasdot effect?

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Is there any one here that does server purchase for their company?

While i wasnt the one that decided which server to purchase, in 2 out of 3 companies that i have worked at, they want with Sun (btw although i have only some experience with sun, most SysAdmin/IT i know of that had experience with Sun, tend to develop a very strong baies toward them)

Originally posted by: beyoku
Webhosting/FTP hosting for maybe 2000 Users at any given point. ...Next year the server may be retired to the web for hosting, maybe not, but we plan for it to get heavy traffic; ie "slashdot effect" - What type of server would you need that would handle something such as the slasdot effect?

This in particular is where Sun can show its strength

Originally posted by: beyoku
Some video encoding- adobe aftereffects and premier (HD video). Photoshop manipulations of large files conversions 700-800 megs ...Lan Game hosting. ... During any regular day these people will be supporting the team that is working on he film production.

This is however, almost a classical Intel workstation, and has been so for quite some time.

Originally posted by: beyoku
... We have a team of people that are learning how to support windows, solaris 9,19 and Linux. They are talking study courses and have gotten some certifications. They were previously going for CCNA/CCNP and the actual purchase of a router for real hands on trainging was one of the best moves we could do. They also need to mimic software enviroments for consulting work they do part time.

For this one, i would say IBM, and in my opinion, by a considerable margin over the others.


now, i think the important question is what are you'r priorities?
ie where are you willing to make the compromise?

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: kobymu

Originally posted by: beyoku
Is there any one here that does server purchase for their company?

While i wasnt the one that decided which server to purchase, in 2 out of 3 companies that i have worked at, they want with Sun (btw although i have only some experience with sun, most SysAdmin/IT i know of that had experience with Sun, tend to develop a very strong baies toward them)


This in particular is where Sun can show its strength

Originally posted by: beyoku
Some video encoding- adobe aftereffects

Originally posted by: beyoku
Webhosting/FTP hosting for maybe 2000 Users at any given point. ...Next year the server may be retired to the web for hosting, maybe not, but we plan for it to get heavy traffic; ie "slashdot effect" - What type of server would you need that would handle something such as the slasdot effect?

and premier (HD video). Photoshop manipulations of large files conversions 700-800 megs ...Lan Game hosting. ... During any regular day these people will be supporting the team that is working on he film production.

This is however, almost a classical Intel workstation, and has been so for quite some time.

Originally posted by: beyoku
... We have a team of people that are learning how to support windows, solaris 9,19 and Linux. They are talking study courses and have gotten some certifications. They were previously going for CCNA/CCNP and the actual purchase of a router for real hands on trainging was one of the best moves we could do. They also need to mimic software enviroments for consulting work they do part time.

For this one, i would say IBM, and in my opinion, by a considerable margin over the others.


now, i think the important question is what are you'r priorities?
ie where are you willing to make the compromise?

Well we do have a few high end macs that will be doing alot of the movie and photoshop duty. i guess that web hosting is where i would not want to skimp out on....If the Hosting failed it would affect A LOT of people vs a Photo compression scerwing up 5 people. The HP is the cheapest though, should hat be totally out of the question?

 

[nweaver]

Web site hosting is not something you can just say "A Hardware will support X users on a website". I hate to try and use the forums to pimp my company, but we do some web load and stress testing (and we do it will, IMHO). I don't do much with that group, except when I have time, but we have worked with big names like MSN, SLC Olympics, Visa. I lot depends on the site content and stuff, so if it is mission critical, spend the few bucks to get it tested...

btw, my company is www.keylabs.com

 

[uOpt]

Just a warning: 1U servers seem to have severely limited lifespan, especially when packed tightly into racks. Businesses running them exchange them a lot, at a big enough scale you just know one or two don't come up after you reboot all.

I have a rack of 8 1U machines for testing and they are very noticbly less reliable than the desktops I have in my office. Power supplies die, CPUs and ethernet chips flake out, stuff like that.

I like the 2U or 3U servers that take normal ATX PSUs and mainboards much better. Mount your own fans, get an overclocker's PSU and off you go.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Well we do have a few high end macs that will be doing alot of the movie and photoshop duty.

oops, forgot about macs , in my country macs are vary rear even for movie and photoshop work, dont know why really.

Originally posted by: beyoku
The HP is the cheapest though, should hat be totally out of the question?

my suggestion is to first of all determine you'r budget.

then sit with a company representative (not a salses person), try to get it touch with with one of their consultant for one hour, which in most cases you will get for free, just make sure you clarify that you intend to purchase a x000$ worth of hardware.
if the company insist on charging you for that one hour of consulting, try instead to send them a detailed email, specifying you'r needs and you'r budget.

this should get you the best options to choose from, and you should do that with all the companies in you'r region (Sun, HP, Dell, IBM...).

/edit
and make sure you ask them what kind of support the companies offer, in some cases it can be a deal maker/breaker.

 

[bob4432]

couldn't you use 2 different machines? or will it be only doing one of the items you listed at once or serving http and editing dv at the same time?

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
Just a warning: 1U servers seem to have severely limited lifespan, especially when packed tightly into racks. Businesses running them exchange them a lot, at a big enough scale you just know one or two don't come up after you reboot all.

I have a rack of 8 1U machines for testing and they are very noticbly less reliable than the desktops I have in my office. Power supplies die, CPUs and ethernet chips flake out, stuff like that.

I like the 2U or 3U servers that take normal ATX PSUs and mainboards much better. Mount your own fans, get an overclocker's PSU and off you go.

Must be poor quality servers or insufficient cooling.
We have a bunch of ProLiant DL360's, G1's all the way to G4's, all going strong with the occasional bad harddrive.

To answer the OP, yeah I purchase hardware for the company I work for, I don't have the final say in what we buy, but my boss typically listens to my recommendations.
We are a mixed HP/Linux and SPARC/Solaris shop, in the middle of a migration away from Sun.

I'd steer clear of the DL145, while I like ProLiants the 145 is more of a HPC box, rather than a general purpose server.
Also, HP supports Solaris on some of their servers, but I don't think the 145 is one of them, that info should be available on their website.

The Sun box is a rebranded Newisys 2100, I haven't used one, but supposedly they're pretty good.

As for the IBM, I've heard some good and some bad about it, no idea though since I haven't looked much at it, but again, this is a mostly HPC geared box AFAIK.

If you can step up to 2U, HP has the DL385 which is a much more attractive server IMO, dual Opterons, 16 GB mem max, 6 harddrives, etc.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Run Solaris on Sun hardware.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Run Solaris on Sun hardware.

Well, these days Sun hardware is hardly Sun hardware anymore
With the V20z and V40z being Newisys boxes, and Sun's upcoming lines being the result of their join venture with Fujitsu, you'll be running out of options on the "Sun hardware" front soon

But I know what you mean, and generally agree