Need a new pre-amp

[spidey07]

As a christmas present to myself I want a new pre-amp. I want XLR connections and as much as my audiophile roots tell me it is wrong - I want a remote, for volume control only. I'm ready to dip the toe into Krell. I've listened to the 300i Integrated amplifier and really, really liked it.

How does this tiny thing put out 150 watts/ch? Does it handle the low impedance loads I require? it just seems too good to be true. Can be had for 1000-1200 used.

Plus it's an integrated (always been a fan of integrated amps) which opens up bi-amping possibilities. I just don't see how krell can squeeze that kind of power out of such a small unit. But damn I've always loved their sound.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Did goku give you an idea? :laugh:

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Good choice. :thumbsup:

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Did goku give you an idea? :laugh:

heh. Sadly it did.

I've got a great source, great speakers, pre-amp is pretty good, I'm lacking power. I hear these things everytime I sit down and listen.

But if I can use the 300i as a pre and power the panels, use the big amps for the woofers I should be golden.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: spidey07

But if I can use the 300i as a pre and power the panels, use the big amps for the woofers I should be golden.

Don't make that mistake in a biamped system that you can use lesser power for the HF. You can and the rule of biamping will allow higher dynamic range with unclipped outputs exceeding that of the sum of the power outputs being the same as full range amplification - BUT!

You do NOT want to clip the HF as with biamping it will not be nearly as detectable on fortissimos. Of course a keen ear hears this as a form of compression (mushy cymbals) but you want to keep your HF stable and linear at all times and a good low Z amp is necessary with ES panels as your HF.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
You do NOT want to clip the HF as with biamping it will not be nearly as detectable on fortissimos. Of course a keen ear hears this as a form of compression (mushy cymbals) but you want to keep your HF stable and linear at all times and a good low Z amp is necessary with ES panels as your HF.

I know. It's the HF that zap my amps. But the woofers do as well, they are 12" sealed and need juice. BUT lots of HF sound or really strong "snap" and dynamic range are what shuts down the amps. It's like they are drained on the bass hits and then the strong snare just shuts them down. If I can seperate that I'd be goldend.

So what do you think? I need a stellar pre-amp and if I can power the panels with the integrated.......all the better.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: spidey07

I know. It's the HF that zap my amps. But the woofers do as well, they are 12" sealed and need juice. BUT lots of HF sound or really strong "snap" and dynamic range are what shuts down the amps. It's like they are drained on the bass hits and then the strong snare just shuts them down. If I can seperate that I'd be goldend.

So what do you think? I need a stellar pre-amp and if I can power the panels with the integrated.......all the better.

Give it a try. 22dBW is a good start. What's the 2O output like?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

1000-1200 used? that's all?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
1000-1200 used? that's all?

This is very different from nomral krell amp design. Don't equate it in any shape or form to the original i series.

 

[Howard]

Class D is wonderful. High efficiency, low heat output, smaller boxes (mostly the power supply), etc.

Have you seen the distortion figures for the Halcro amps? Class D perfection right there.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn

Originally posted by: spidey07

I know. It's the HF that zap my amps. But the woofers do as well, they are 12" sealed and need juice. BUT lots of HF sound or really strong "snap" and dynamic range are what shuts down the amps. It's like they are drained on the bass hits and then the strong snare just shuts them down. If I can seperate that I'd be goldend.

So what do you think? I need a stellar pre-amp and if I can power the panels with the integrated.......all the better.

Give it a try. 22dBW is a good start. What's the 2O output like?

you tell me. We've spoken about this before. I need a good amp for the panels. Coupled with the draw of the woofers.....

Just tell me what I need. I've heard my speakers on just this integrated alone and it was pretty damn good. Real good. Real, real, real good. Need more power due to the size of the room.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Howard
Class D is wonderful. High efficiency, low heat output, smaller boxes (mostly the power supply), etc.

Have you seen the distortion figures for the Halcro amps? Class D perfection right there.

You talking the new "digital" amps? I haven't kept too much up on it.

I'll say again that I've listened to this integrated with my speakers and it's pretty damn sweet.

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: spidey07
As a christmas present to myself I want a new pre-amp. I want XLR connections and as much as my audiophile roots tell me it is wrong - I want a remote, for volume control only. I'm ready to dip the toe into Krell. I've listened to the 300i Integrated amplifier and really, really liked it.

How does this tiny thing put out 150 watts/ch? Does it handle the low impedance loads I require? it just seems too good to be true. Can be had for 1000-1200 used.

Plus it's an integrated (always been a fan of integrated amps) which opens up bi-amping possibilities. I just don't see how krell can squeeze that kind of power out of such a small unit. But damn I've always loved their sound.

I don't see why this amp can be $2500 when the specs aren't all that great... Don't mean to bash Krell (I'm sure they sound great, but I'm more of a numbers on paper type of person). I would expect the SNR and THD to be a lot better for the price they are asking especially the SNR (A-weighted means actual unweighted SNR is around 96dB), unless those figures are an understatement.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: spidey07

you tell me. We've spoken about this before. I need a good amp for the panels. Coupled with the draw of the woofers.....

Just tell me what I need. I've heard my speakers on just this integrated alone and it was pretty damn good. Real good. Real, real, real good. Need more power due to the size of the room.

Yes biamping will stop the "steam from running out" when the full range fortissimo gravy train gets rolling. E ticket ride it is not, however.

 

[Old Hippie]

I'm ready to dip the toe into Krell. I've listened to the 300i Integrated

Wow, that's a nice toy! :thumbsup:
What speakers are you using?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: spidey07
As a christmas present to myself I want a new pre-amp. I want XLR connections and as much as my audiophile roots tell me it is wrong - I want a remote, for volume control only. I'm ready to dip the toe into Krell. I've listened to the 300i Integrated amplifier and really, really liked it.

How does this tiny thing put out 150 watts/ch? Does it handle the low impedance loads I require? it just seems too good to be true. Can be had for 1000-1200 used.

Plus it's an integrated (always been a fan of integrated amps) which opens up bi-amping possibilities. I just don't see how krell can squeeze that kind of power out of such a small unit. But damn I've always loved their sound.

I don't see why this amp can be $2500 when the specs aren't all that great... Don't mean to bash Krell (I'm sure they sound great, but I'm more of a numbers on paper type of person). I would expect the SNR and THD to be a lot better for the price they are asking especially the SNR (A-weighted means actual unweighted SNR is around 96dB), unless those figures are an understatement.

That's a prime example of "listen before you buy". You can't purchase audio by specs.

From my experience you can krank a krell amp/pre-amp to 1 o'clock and still hear a pin drop with your ear 2 inches from the speaker. SNR is pretty much meaningless.

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: spidey07
As a christmas present to myself I want a new pre-amp. I want XLR connections and as much as my audiophile roots tell me it is wrong - I want a remote, for volume control only. I'm ready to dip the toe into Krell. I've listened to the 300i Integrated amplifier and really, really liked it.

How does this tiny thing put out 150 watts/ch? Does it handle the low impedance loads I require? it just seems too good to be true. Can be had for 1000-1200 used.

Plus it's an integrated (always been a fan of integrated amps) which opens up bi-amping possibilities. I just don't see how krell can squeeze that kind of power out of such a small unit. But damn I've always loved their sound.

I don't see why this amp can be $2500 when the specs aren't all that great... Don't mean to bash Krell (I'm sure they sound great, but I'm more of a numbers on paper type of person). I would expect the SNR and THD to be a lot better for the price they are asking especially the SNR (A-weighted means actual unweighted SNR is around 96dB), unless those figures are an understatement.

That's a prime example of "listen before you buy". You can't purchase audio by specs.

From my experience you can krank a krell amp/pre-amp to 1 o'clock and still hear a pin drop with your ear 2 inches from the speaker. SNR is pretty much meaningless.

Not sure what gain the amp is at when set to 1'oclock, but hearing a pin drop 2 inches away at that gain setting just means the gain of the amp is high, or the input signal level is large enough to produce an audible output, or there is some DSP going on like a dynamic range expander.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Howard
Class D is wonderful. High efficiency, low heat output, smaller boxes (mostly the power supply), etc.

Have you seen the distortion figures for the Halcro amps? Class D perfection right there.

You talking the new "digital" amps?

The D in Class D doesn't stand for digital, but close enough.

You CAN buy by specs if you know which ones to look at.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: blahblah99
Not sure what gain the amp is at when set to 1'oclock, but hearing a pin drop 2 inches away at that gain setting just means the gain of the amp is high, or the input signal level is large enough to produce an audible output, or there is some DSP going on like a dynamic range expander.

Gating is cheating.

But it works.