Need a good full-tower, budget $300-$400 or (preferably) less

[ChorniyVolk]

Hey guys, I really need a new case for a new build. Is there by any chance a site that has benchmarks or average temp listings for the high end cases? Anyway...

Here's what I want out of it:

- Doesn't cost too much. Budget WAS $100, then $150, and now $300-$400. Above that, it better justify its price in some magical way. The golden rule here is the less the better, but not at a large cost to quality.

- Full Tower, I may not need the space, but I want it, I want it to be big and intimidating, not to mention the extra space providing it with better airflow. Also need space for an aftermarket cpu HSF, something big.

- Externally, sleek/simple/clean, no stupid LED's, and I'd like to avoid those mesh designs if it doesn't significantly help airflow. So basically like a Lian Li. External temp sensors are cool, would love one. Also, no or very little plastic, aluminum or steel or whatever else, just not plastic.

- Internally, the opposite of external, I want it to have style, features, look like some work went into it. CM690/ATCS 840 are the exact opposite of what I want, boring and bland on the inside. If it is boring and bland, then it better make up for it in other areas. Lian Lis do this well as well, there is a nice looking layout with quality parts and it looks like someone put thought into it, but they're not the only ones.

- Removable MoBo tray would be appreciated. Also a hole in the tray where an aftermarket HSF for the ones that use a backplate.

- Expansion slots have screws or something. The plastic shit on the 690 (my old case) could barely hold up an 8800GT, and even then it was at a slight angle.

- Space for 5-6 harddrives (or more), 1-2 ODD's, and maybe a floppy/card reader in the future.

- Does air cooling well, I'd like good temps. I can buy more fans for it if recommended, but only if it doesn't ruin the priceerformance. So let me know if a case needs more fans and if it takes it up a notch in air cooling ability.

- Okay with noise, but not too much, and the less of it the better. I don't want to blow my ears out with my headphones so I can hear stuff over the jet engine 2 feet away.

- Standard position. I'm okay with 90 degree change like the RV02 if it (very) significantly helps temps, but upside down like the Black Pearl is a no no. I'll be putting the case up against the wall to my left a little behind my monitor, with the ass facing me so that I can access all the ports on the motherboard with ease, if I were to do that with something like a Black Pearl then I wouldn't have access to the guts of the computer unless I rotated it 180 degrees each time.

- Side window preferred, but not necessary.

Cases I've looked at:

800D - I hear it has crappy airflow problems, and have heard some nightmarish temps.

COSMOS 1000/S - Heard it had the same problem as the 800D.

ATCS 840 - Boring and bland on the inside. How's the cooling?

TJ07 - Looks good,but I've read a review saying that it vibrates and makes noise. Is that true usually? What other problems do most people report with it, without bias please?

RV02 - Not too excited about the wires coming out of the top and all that, does it blow the other cases away temp wise? Looks kind of stupid and has a shitty LED too.

Antec 1200 - God, it's so ugly. Does it air cool better than the competition by a large amount? Because I'll spend extra to get a good looking case that's built better if not, god it's ugly.

Lian Li cases - A lot of them look good and fit my needs, but what are some of the downsides to them? What problems do people report? Any particular one better than others in terms of performance?

ABS Canyon 695 - Costs a fucking lot, but it looks good and has a bunch of cool features. It's a Lian Li design IIRC, and I'm wondering if the 3 level/zone design that makes it so huge actually improves temps by a large enough amount so as to justify the price. Does it? I'm really curious about this case most of all.

A lot to read, sorry about that, but I need to find the case that's perfect for me.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

ATCS 840. It's obviously well thought out and crafted. The inside isn't Michelangelo or whatever because the inside isn't supposed to be. It's clean, roomy, and easy to work with. If you want something black inside that then mod it - get it anodized or powder coated. Beyond that I don't see what is so stylish about any of these cases you listed. The inside is a mechanical structure designed to spec. Lian Li's don't perform that well, they're like iPhones - they look slick but the actual point of the device is forgotten. The RV02 has a top cover for the wires so they come out in a tail in back.

 

[shabby]

Antec p193?

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Alright fine, the 840 isn't so terrible, it's just that my disdain for the 690 transferred over due to how similar the 840 looks. It seems an alright case I suppose.

You don't think Lian Li's cool well? I've heard nothing but praise for them...

Why is the P193 listed as a mid-tower? Is the front made out of plastic or metal, I'll go watch a video or something because I can't tell by the pics, but I edited in something else into the OP, I hate plastic. Looks alright, the insides are fine, I'm not too crazy about the design on the front with all of the holes and all that nonsense, but it's fairly sleek and clean and doesn't use stupid LEDs. Don't know about the deformity coming out of its side though, but the humongous fan sounds great.

How's the cooling though? Am I in the wrong state of mind where I think there are large difference between the cooling of these cases, or will there be at the most a 2-3 degree difference?

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Also, what's up with that positive airflow concept? Am I really going to get much less dust inside if there are more intake fans than exhaust fans, or is that just negligible marketing bullshit?

And Chai, I read your post in another thread about the 193, and I do intend to put in an aftermarket HSF. So not enough space for big ones huh? Edited that into the OP, guess the 193's out then.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

That's cool bro. No, I think there will be a major difference in cooling, but of course your room's ambient temp will probably have more influence on temps. There are too many variables to compare case temps with people on the internet. I just shoot for overkill like having 2 230mm fans sucking air out of the top of the case right above the mobo. Heat rises so it's 2 forces working for you... then 120mm out the back, a 120mm sucking air from the video cards, and a 230mm and a 120mm intake fans. A larger case will need more airflow to cycle the volume of air inside at any given moment, but it will also have more air volume to kind of absorb the heat from the components.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

You sure you're not biased for the 840 because you already bought one? You're lying through your teeth, aren't you?

Just kiddin'

So what about the positive airflow thing that Lian Li does? The whole, with more intake fans you have air being pushed out of the case due to positive air pressure, whereas with more exhaust fans you have air being sucked in from all the holes due to negative air pressure, and the hole not being covered with dust filters invites more dust into the case. Sounds like some serious shit.

And why do you say Lian Li's aren't good?

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

I can't say I know the answer from a trained engineering perspective, but I think as long as you get a case like a Lian Li or ATCS 840 that doesn't have vents then it's not an issue. I know that's one of the main things I liked about the ATCS 840. I don't know if positive air pressure is beneficial for cooling or if you can even really pressurize a case (it's not sealed air tight). I think the more fresh, cool air passing through and over the hot components the cooler they will stay. You can make an ATCS 840 suck more air than it exhausts by blocking any of the exhaust fans with some black Plexiglas or something if you wanted to try that out.

Lian Li's are not P'sOS but I think they focus too much on an elitist image that doesn't have anything to do with actual cooling performance. Their design philosophy is weighted more towards aesthetics than functionality which I despise in anything that has a main purpose of being mechanical. Functionality before aesthetics is ideal.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Sure, but how is the functionality? If it keeps up with the others or even beats them while simultaneously looking great, then I have no problem with their design philosophy. Sucks that there's no way to compare cases.

And they don't need to pressurize the case, the positives air pressure isn't a constant, but the effect is, the air is constantly being pushed out rather than sucked in.

And as far as the 840, wouldn't exhaust fans at the top be a bad thing? It only encourages hot air to move from below over all the parts and up out of the case, whereas a case that uses front and back fans instead of bottom and/or top ones is pushing all the hot air away. I mean, if the fans were blowing up from the bottom then that's something else, they're pushing air from the bottom that'll be cooler and blowing it over the parts, but just having exhaust fans at the top would decrease the amount of cool air coming from out of the case at the bottom in favor of moving the hot air over the motherboard and out, no? Or is this all also negligible compared to the fact that either way, air is being moved?

Hmm, with no way of knowing which case beats which, I'm starting to think aesthetics are what I should be focusing on instead. ¯\_(o_o)_/¯

 

[Enigmatic]

Personally, I'd go 800D or CM Stacker (my personal preference). From what I've read, the 800D has bad air cooling out of the box, but as long as you add the appropriate fans your temps will drop considerably.

About the Stacker, it has a ton of mesh (both side panels, front door, bottom and top of case), which you said you don't like (and I normally don't, but I think it is done well on the Stacker) and air cooling is top notch on this case. I think it looks great too, a bit of flash, but not too over the top.

Anyway, I think all the cases you listed have garnered pretty good reviews anyway.

 

[kranky]

I recently got a Lian Li PC-B10. Although it's a mid-tower, they make a full tower with the same type of interior. It's all aluminum with a black finish on the outside. Put the entire system together and never touched a screwdriver.

Thumbscrews for MB mounting
HDDs snap into a removable tray, then slide in to the HDD cage on rubber mounts
PSU held in place by a bracket that latches down
Clamp holds the optical drive in place
Expansion boards held in place by pivoting clamps
It's extremely quiet IMHO (2 intake/1 exhaust fan) - foam on the inside of the side panels and front door, with rubber lining the edges.
Side window panel is available (I didn't want one).

Can't speak to the temps, it's not an issue for me running at stock speed.

I don't know what more I could want in a case.

 

[aigomorla]

Cases I've looked at:

800D - I hear it has crappy airflow problems, and have heard some nightmarish temps.

COSMOS 1000/S - Heard it had the same problem as the 800D.

ATCS 840 - Boring and bland on the inside. How's the cooling?

TJ07 - Looks good,but I've read a review saying that it vibrates and makes noise. Is that true usually? What other problems do most people report with it, without bias please?

RV02 - Not too excited about the wires coming out of the top and all that, does it blow the other cases away temp wise? Looks kind of stupid and has a shitty LED too.

Antec 1200 - God, it's so ugly. Does it air cool better than the competition by a large amount? Because I'll spend extra to get a good looking case that's built better if not, god it's ugly.

Lian Li cases - A lot of them look good and fit my needs, but what are some of the downsides to them? What problems do people report? Any particular one better than others in terms of performance?

ABS Canyon 695 - Costs a fucking lot, but it looks good and has a bunch of cool features. It's a Lian Li design IIRC, and I'm wondering if the 3 level/zone design that makes it so huge actually improves temps by a large enough amount so as to justify the price. Does it? I'm really curious about this case most of all.

A lot to read, sorry about that, but I need to find the case that's perfect for me.

800D - > the reviews you read must of been by noobs.
I dont see how the case which has the best cable management can have the air flow issues.

To me that tells me, that the guy who did the reviewing was a utter noob for not using the cable management features the case comes with.

TJ-07 - The entire case is composed of a rivitless design. All panels have screws instead of rivits. That could be the reason why they said they heard vibration.
However on my personal taste, the TJ-07 is the highest case u have on that list.

I dont like the other cases because they are very pale in comparision to a TJ07.

The lian li wouldnt come close to a TJ-07.

If you ever think about watering, get a TJ-07.
If your a moder get a TJ-07.
If you lost, just grab a TJ-07.

I have yet to see someone disappointed in getting a TJ-07.

HOWEVER.. for 400, id grab a Mountain Mods U2 Hori.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I'm not a fan of the TJ07 personally. There are just too many minor things wrong with it to support the price. Most do have some rattle issue, and not because of the screws not being tight, but because there are minor gaps in the construction (usually a mm or less, but because of the gap, if one of the panels is vibrating, it causes that gap to rattle). At the price, there should be rubber gaskets between all the parts that touch... And because of using the lesser dense AL on the side panels, there is less sound dampening occurring on all the vibration. While it is nice from a weight perspective, the noise levels suffer from that decision. I mean, come on, we are talking a $350 case here, there should be acoustic damping mats on the side panels at that price!

 

[aigomorla]

I'm not a fan of the TJ07 personally. There are just too many minor things wrong with it to support the price. Most do have some rattle issue, and not because of the screws not being tight, but because there are minor gaps in the construction (usually a mm or less, but because of the gap, if one of the panels is vibrating, it causes that gap to rattle). At the price, there should be rubber gaskets between all the parts that touch... And because of using the lesser dense AL on the side panels, there is less sound dampening occurring on all the vibration. While it is nice from a weight perspective, the noise levels suffer from that decision. I mean, come on, we are talking a $350 case here, there should be acoustic damping mats on the side panels at that price!

but not many cases can handle the EQ load a TJ-07 can.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Sure, but how is the functionality? If it keeps up with the others or even beats them while simultaneously looking great, then I have no problem with their design philosophy. Sucks that there's no way to compare cases.

And they don't need to pressurize the case, the positives air pressure isn't a constant, but the effect is, the air is constantly being pushed out rather than sucked in.

And as far as the 840, wouldn't exhaust fans at the top be a bad thing? It only encourages hot air to move from below over all the parts and up out of the case, whereas a case that uses front and back fans instead of bottom and/or top ones is pushing all the hot air away. I mean, if the fans were blowing up from the bottom then that's something else, they're pushing air from the bottom that'll be cooler and blowing it over the parts, but just having exhaust fans at the top would decrease the amount of cool air coming from out of the case at the bottom in favor of moving the hot air over the motherboard and out, no? Or is this all also negligible compared to the fact that either way, air is being moved?

Hmm, with no way of knowing which case beats which, I'm starting to think aesthetics are what I should be focusing on instead. ¯\_(o_o)_/¯

No, no... the front (lower) and bottom fans draw air INTO the case, the top and rear (upper) fans pull air OUT OF the case. All cases are like this because heat rises and so the temp in the upper half of the case is warmer than the lower half (because heat rises and the CPU is up there). "Pressurized" and "positive air pressure" are the same in this situation. What Lian Li means is that there is more air being pushed inside the case than it is letting out, so you have air being shoved out the little spaces rather than the exhaust fans sucking in MORE air than the intake fans can provide. In the latter case you would have air being sucked in from the vents and spaces which aren't filtered. Obviously if a case looks great and functions great then that's the case I want. And that is the ATCS 840 in my opinion. I think it's just an all around badass design. In addition to the features I mentioned before, you can even fit a 3x radiator in the place of the 2 x 230mm fans at the top, and the buttons and front panel connectors are awesome, it's all brushed Aluminum, easy to remove/wash filters, etc. Aesthetics do not become most important just because you can't empirically evaluate each case in a scientific method on their cooling efficacy.

 

[SolMiester]

If I had the money, I'd go for the 800D...and not bat an eyelid!

 

[videogames101]

800D is most certainly the best case there if you have the right fans. Cable management, hot swappable HDDs, cooling isolation, etc.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

aigo, I don't know, the problem with the 800D is that it relies completely on air moving from the bottom to the top, and if you have a large video card or something in the way, it ruins the airflow. Can you really say that isn't the case? Also, what is EQ? And why doesn't any Lian Li case compare in your opinion?

Chai, I know the exhaust fans pull air out, that's exactly why I said what I said, they pull the hot air over all the parts and then out, rather than pushing cool air over it. It doesn't have a fan at the bottom to push cool air onto the parts, and the fan at the front doesn't seem like it should be relied on for cooling everything else with cool air before the exhaust fans move that air out.

As far as the Stacker, only four 3.5" bays isn't cool.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

You weren't clear... No, no, no. OK, check it out: the hot air has to go somewhere. If it stays in the case it gets hotter. It doesn't matter if the cool, fresh air hits the parts directly. The air just has to be CHANGED more frequently than not. It doesn't matter where the intake is, it just has to move a lot of air. Obviously computer cases aren't designed like a combustion chamber in an engine. The fans all work together to CYCLE (CHANGE) the air inside the case. If we start discussing things beyond this fundamental level, it gets too complex (like combustion chamber design) because it depends on every shape in the case, every cable, heatsink, load, voltage, the room air and everything else. If you want to spot cool the chipset above the video card then you can figure that out, but if the entire volume of air inside the case has a high flow then of course even the spots that have poor air movement (blocked by the video card or whatever) will diffuse the heat better. The larger the fan the less potential for noise and fewer RPMs it needs to turn to push more air than the smaller fan. The huge 3 x 230mm fans will move more air at lower RPMs and thus make less noise than like 5 or 6 140mm fans that it takes to push as much air because they all make a certain amount of noise and the smaller the fan the faster it has to spin. Then you get into how it has something to do with the bearing and fin design... blah blah...

 

[Syran]

Might also check out the Thermaltake Armor+, fairly nice case, easy to work in, removable motherboard tray.

 

[aigomorla]

aigo, I don't know, the problem with the 800D is that it relies completely on air moving from the bottom to the top, and if you have a large video card or something in the way, it ruins the airflow. Can you really say that isn't the case? Also, what is EQ? And why doesn't any Lian Li case compare in your opinion?

EQ = equiptment.

I like the TJ07 more then the LL, because of its mod capabilities.
Also you cant really do this in a LL without moding it.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Yeah Chai, that ended up being my question, is the biggest factor the fact that air is being moved and not how the air is moving? And you've answered yes.

Syran, I don't know about the design, looks kind of crappy (no offense) and I'm not a big fan of the LEDs/lights (can you turn them off?) but otherwise it looks nice enough. I love the huge window.

aigomorla, I'm not going to be using watercooling and I don't think I'll be modding it much if at all (plus, your pic is a mod to flip everything upside down like the Black Pearl which I definitely don't need),.

I mean, the case looks good but it costs a lot and even you admit it isn't perfect, that vibration noise issue is something I definitely want to avoid. I hope I don't sound like those douches who ask for help picking something and end up arguing with every suggestion apart from the ones they liked before asking for help, I just want to make the right choice here for me and be 100% satisfied with it.

I do have an idea, what about a shorter list of cases that are about equal that I can choose from based on my own personal preferences? What I mean is, the cases I've looked at and the suggested ones, would you guys point out big problems with certain ones to eliminate them from my choices and create a shorter list to consider? If I had, say, just 5 cases to choose from I could pick based on smaller things like the layout or the look, and it would work out really well. I hope that's not asking too much.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Cool, we're on the same page now

I totally understand where you're coming from. You are asking good questions in this thread and the others. None of us are salesmen here, I think we just want to help people make good decisions. That's all man I'm just happy you aren't going crazy and getting all ignorant and closed-minded!

OK, so the thing about the ATCS 840 is you can't really get aftermarket 230mm fans and the filters don't catch the real fine dead skin cell type stuff in the air. Only the foam filters do. Did you know 75% of dust is dead skin? Yeah, that's what they say. OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming... you can buy the CM 230mm separate but no one else I know of makes them. Also, they don't give you a 120mm fan for the GPU slot exhaust box but they give you a metal grille. Hopefully this helps in your search for the perfect case.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Yeah, that sort of dust is why I'm not too ecstatic about more exhaust than intake, air pushing out would probably keep most of the small stuff out.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

I think a HEPA filter would restrict everything too much.