Need a 300 dollar or less camera for a cross-country tour

[Agentbolt]

Taking a cross-country bike tour this summer, and I want to find a better camera to snap some pictures with than my current Pentax Optio M50 (A great camera, though)

I'm fine with buying used/ebaying it, and don't really have a preference on body type or anything. It needs to have good picture quality, take 720p video, and have a decent zoom on it.

I checked the sticky, the recommended cameras are the FZ-28 (Discontinued), T27 (Can't seem to find it for less than 400) or the SX10 (doesn't do 720p). There some Rebel XTs available for 300 used, but they don't seem to do 720p either, and I'm assuming I'd need to purchase a bunch of extra gadgets and accessories for it.

I'm a newbie to cameras, I've been using EasyShare point n' shoots or my Pentax for years now. Any suggestions?

 

[996GT2]

Panasonic ZS3...12x zoom range and 720P AVCHD recording.

Or a used LX3...probably the best point and shoot out there at the moment.

 

[Agentbolt]

Unfortunately both well above the 300 bucks max I'm looking to spend here, even looking used. Good lookin' cameras, though.

If 300 bucks is just too cheap for what I'm looking for even going used, please let me know.

 

[996GT2]

You can try the TZ5. Its zoom range is not as great as the TZ7's and it doesn't support AVCHD, but it still packs a very useful 28-280mm equivalent zoom range and 720P Motion JPEG video ability.

 

[California Roll]

I was in a similar situation to yours. I ended up getting a Lumix TS1 for $340 (higher than your budget) but maybe what I learned along the way can help you.

I was originally planning to get a Creative Vado so I could have a small, handy way to take 720p video without carrying my Canon HV30 and gear with me everywhere I went. I still take my HV30 to places/events where I plan to take good video but I realized I was leaving it at home more often than not. And missing out on some fun videos (well, I was taking lots of video with my P&S camera at 640x480, but I wanted HD).

After deciding on the Vado, I realized I would still be carrying two pieces of gear, as I always take my P&S wherever I go. I ended up looking for a decent P&S that could do 720p.

Originally I looked at the Canon SD780 ($230) and the SD960 ($270). Both are new models that can do 720p. After reading some reviews, the SD780 picture quality didn't look that great. It may still be acceptable to you and the form factor is pretty awesome, but a lot of people weren't happy with it. The SD960 is supposedly better and it has a wide angle lens, but it's a bit bigger than the SD780. If I had to choose between these two, I'd get the SD960 for sure.

I've been a Canon man pretty much my whole life. Not on purpose tho. I pretty much research everything depending on my needs, performance and price range and Canon usually came out tops. After reading about the so-so quality on the SD780, I looked into some Panasonic Lumix reviews and it looks like I've been missing out. Reviews were great.

As a primarily video man, familiar with AVCHD, I was interested in the first two cameras to take HD video in AVCHD, the Lumix ZS3 ($400) and TS1 ($340). The ZS3 is pretty spectacular from what I've read. It even records HD in Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo. I will probably end up getting a ZS3 for the 12x+ optical zoom, on top of the TS1 I just purchased.

I ended up getting the TS1 because of it's "ruggedized" features, being waterproof, dustproof, shockproof. I wasn't planning on this type of camera, but I realized it was exactly what I needed. The places I don't take my HD camcorder are places like the beach, the pool, boating, snowboarding, etc. A lot of times I can't bring out my P&S either. The TS1 lets me take pics and video without worrying about it. Reviews have been excellent.

A lot of older Lumix models have 720p capability also (in motion JPEG, not AVCHD). Check out some of the TZx models. TZ5's can be had for around $200 used/Ebay. The LX3 takes great video also but it's a bit pricey and I wouldn't consider it a P&S, more like a compact camera.

If you have a camera in mind, search for that model on YouTube/Vimeo. You'll find sample video clips for sure. My only must have recommendation for a 720p camera is the ability to use the optical zoom while taking video. A lot of older ones will not let you zoom in/out once you start recording which sucks.

 

[Agentbolt]

Cool, thanks guys! So what's the difference exactly between AVCHD and Motion Jpeg? They're both 720p video, yes/no?

 

[California Roll]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Cool, thanks guys! So what's the difference exactly between AVCHD and Motion Jpeg? They're both 720p video, yes/no?

Yep, they're both technically HD/720p. The difference is compression rate. AVCHD quality is same or better than MJPEG, but the compression rate is much better. You can record more video on less space.

Edit: I'm pretty sure this is out of stock everywhere, but if you have a MicroCenter near you, check this http://www.microcenter.com/sin...tml?product_id=0283347

A brand new black/silver TZ5 for $102 was ridonculous.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: California Roll

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Cool, thanks guys! So what's the difference exactly between AVCHD and Motion Jpeg? They're both 720p video, yes/no?

Yep, they're both technically HD/720p. The difference is compression rate. AVCHD quality is same or better than MJPEG, but the compression rate is much better. You can record more video on less space.

Edit: I'm pretty sure this is out of stock everywhere, but if you have a MicroCenter near you, check this http://www.microcenter.com/sin...tml?product_id=0283347

A brand new black/silver TZ5 for $102 was ridonculous.

Our new referral system seems to have killed your link. Oh well, no Microcenters around me anyway.

Okay so let's say just for kicks, because it seems like the choices really open up there, that I was willing to go up to 400 bucks. Sounds like ZS3 or LX3 is the way to go, right?

 

[California Roll]

Well, don't pay for what you don't need.

The main difference between the TZ5 and the ZS3 (which is the same as the TZ7 outside the USA) is the AVCHD and Stereo recording. Everything else is the same, including the awesome zoom. If you don't care for this, TZ5 is great. AVCHD is kind of a bitch to work with if you plan on doing video editing and don't have a high powered PC. MJPEG is much easier to work with. If you're just planning to upload clips straight to YouTube both are easy.

The LX3 is an awesome camera. It is probably THE best compact camera in terms of manual controls and options. If you're looking for a pure P&S set to auto, this is a waste of money. Video quality is good but probably on par with other cameras costing $200 less.

If you're interested in AVCHD and stereo recording, yeah ZS3. Ditto for LX3 if you're looking for a sweet digicam also. If no, stick to your original budget and look for an older model (2008) that can handle 720p. Just make sure it can zoom during recording!

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: California Roll

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Cool, thanks guys! So what's the difference exactly between AVCHD and Motion Jpeg? They're both 720p video, yes/no?

Yep, they're both technically HD/720p. The difference is compression rate. AVCHD quality is same or better than MJPEG, but the compression rate is much better. You can record more video on less space.

Edit: I'm pretty sure this is out of stock everywhere, but if you have a MicroCenter near you, check this http://www.microcenter.com/sin...tml?product_id=0283347

A brand new black/silver TZ5 for $102 was ridonculous.

Our new referral system seems to have killed your link. Oh well, no Microcenters around me anyway.

Okay so let's say just for kicks, because it seems like the choices really open up there, that I was willing to go up to 400 bucks. Sounds like ZS3 or LX3 is the way to go, right?

Depends on what kind of shooting you want to do. If you just want to take casual snapshots, there's no point ponying up that much money for an LX3. The LX3 has a very specific target audience...people who want the manual controls and image quality/low light performance of a DSLR without the size and weight. Of course, the LX3 can't compete with a real DSLR in image quality or low-light performance, but it's miles ahead of most other P&S cameras.

Now, the LX3's downsides...it's expensive for a point and shoot. Its lens, while a gem of engineering with image stabilization and a fast f/2 max aperture, has a limited zoom range of 24-60mm (compared to 25-300mm for the ZS3). Besides those points, however, the LX3 is the likely best P&S out there right now.

If you really want an LX3 I'd wait a few months for the official release of the Olympus E-P1, which is an interchangeable lens camera in a much smaller form factor than a DSLR. That might help drive LX3 prices down if enthusiasts move to the E-P1.

Otherwise, if you're just looking for a camera to do casual shooting and some HD video, the TZ5 should serve your needs well. If you want something even smaller than a TZ5, there is also the FX35/FX37, both of which pack 720P (motion JPEG) recording into a very small package. The FX37 has a 5x (25-125mm) zoom range to the FX35's 4x (25-100mm), but both are great cameras if size is important.

 

[Agentbolt]

Well, waiting a few months can't be done unfortunately, my trip happens in August and honestly I'd want a week or two to get used to the camera before going out there with it.

I'm still a complete camera newbie and probably wouldn't make much use of the extra manual controls in the LX3. The smaller form factor over a DSLR isn't much help either, so I guess the LX3 doesn't make much sense for me personally. Doesn't hurt that it's by far the more expensive option.

So if it's down to the ZS3 or the TZ5, let me just ask real quick: How much better is the image quality? The extra 2x zoom probably wouldn't get noticed by me, and the ~8 minute limit on movie lengths wouldn't be a deal killer by any means either. I'd been under the impression the ZS3 simply took much much better pictures. If the TZ5 is pretty much the same camera except for the higher zoom level and fancier video codec on the ZS3, I'll just buy the TZ5 and thank you gents for saving me 150 bucks

 

[California Roll]

http://www.cameralabs.com/revi..._TZ7_ZS3/verdict.shtml

There's a nice comparison there. The PQ on the ZS3 is not leaps and bounds better. If you don't care for the ZS3 options, it's a great choice. The silver version is around $210 right now on Amazon/Buydig/Beach Camera.

If you're used to ultra compact cameras, you might get freaked out about the size. It's not large, but it's not small either. My wife fell in love with the Canon SD780 because of the size and freaked out when she held the TS1. The zoom on the TZ5 is awesome, but if you don't need it and want something smaller, 996GT2 made some great recommendations. Samsung also has a pretty nice 720p digicam but I won't confuse you anymore

 

[jediphx]

Panasonic DMC-FZ28

I love this camera, 10.1 MP, 18x Optical zoom (32x optical at 3MP) HD video at 720dpi and you can add various lens filters.

If you would like some sample pics PM me and I will send you a link to my site.

It was recently discontinued so you might find it for even cheaper than the $269 I got it for

 

[arrfep]

Is money really that tight? Is there any way you can find/make a few hundred bucks before the trip starts? I did a self-supported cross-country tour in 2004, before my photography habit got really serious. Even still, I brought a P&S and a film SLR. In hindsight, I wish I had something like the 5DII/D90, or at least something as quality as the LX3. You'll likely never get the chance to do something like this ever again in your life. It might be worth going into debt $200 more to be best able to capture the photos/video you imagine.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: arrfep
Is money really that tight? Is there any way you can find/make a few hundred bucks before the trip starts? I did a self-supported cross-country tour in 2004, before my photography habit got really serious. Even still, I brought a P&S and a film SLR. In hindsight, I wish I had something like the 5DII/D90, or at least something as quality as the LX3. You'll likely never get the chance to do something like this ever again in your life. It might be worth going into debt $200 more to be best able to capture the photos/video you imagine.

Eh, it's not really a money thing, the problem is that any of the entry level DSLRs are not going to have video record. I like having the option of having a decent way to record movies on hand.

I'm tempted by the DSLR, but there's just a few problems. I'm a point and shooter, I have no idea what to do with f-stops and that kind of crap. I take a look at the pictures from say, my camera and a decent entry level DSLR

http://www.steves-digicams.com...optio_M50_samples.html

http://www.steves-digicams.com..._rebel_xs_samples.html

and hand to God, I don't see a huge difference there. I'm sure there is, and the photo people are holding their face in their hands from me saying that, but I'm just not seeing the big difference that merits getting into "that" whole realm.

My problem with my Optio is that A) Shots indoors are a blurry, cruddy mess and B) the Optio only takes VGA-quality video. I was thinking a fancier point and shoot would alleviate the horrible issues I have with taking indoor shots (due to mechanical image stabilization, the Optio can jack up the ISO value to try to take better indoor shots but the resulting picture looks like crap) and get me some acceptable video.

 

[imported_Irse]

I got a Sony DSC-H20. I really like it. Does video. Has a 10x lens and has image stabilization. Plus it will AF if you need to zoom in or out. Found it when it was about $225

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: arrfep
My problem with my Optio is that A) Shots indoors are a blurry, cruddy mess and B) the Optio only takes VGA-quality video. I was thinking a fancier point and shoot would alleviate the horrible issues I have with taking indoor shots (due to mechanical image stabilization, the Optio can jack up the ISO value to try to take better indoor shots but the resulting picture looks like crap) and get me some acceptable video.

Let's address your issues 1 by 1:

A) This is due to the camera's poor high ISO performance, which it attempts to fix by using slower shutter speeds indoors. Without optical image stabilization, indoor shots will be noisy due to the camera bumping up the ISO. With such a small sensor, you cannot expect good performance at night or indoors.

The TZ5 will not really solve this issue completely. It does have a very good Optical IS system, but the sensor is still small and your shots above ISO 400 will still be quite noisy. The LX3 will be better than other point and shoots in this area, but still not at a level of a DSLR, which lets you take great shots even at night without a flash if you mount a fast lens. To put it this way, your Optio M50 at ISO 100 looks about the same as a DSLR at ISO 1600.

B) The TZ5 and LX3 both take 720P video, but a DSLR like the Canon Rebel T1i or Nikon D5000 will take much better quality 720p video due to the much larger sensor (and thus much lower noise at high ISO). A DSLR also lets you mount different lenses to get that movie-like shallow depth of field in your videos. If you can afford it, I recommend a DSLR. There is obviously a learning curve, but it shouldn't take you more than a month or so to get all the basics down.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: arrfep
My problem with my Optio is that A) Shots indoors are a blurry, cruddy mess and B) the Optio only takes VGA-quality video. I was thinking a fancier point and shoot would alleviate the horrible issues I have with taking indoor shots (due to mechanical image stabilization, the Optio can jack up the ISO value to try to take better indoor shots but the resulting picture looks like crap) and get me some acceptable video.

Let's address your issues 1 by 1:

A) This is due to the camera's poor high ISO performance, which it attempts to fix by using slower shutter speeds indoors. Without optical image stabilization, indoor shots will be noisy due to the camera bumping up the ISO. With such a small sensor, you cannot expect good performance at night or indoors.

The TZ5 will not really solve this issue completely. It does have a very good Optical IS system, but the sensor is still small and your shots above ISO 400 will still be quite noisy. The LX3 will be better than other point and shoots in this area, but still not at a level of a DSLR, which lets you take great shots even at night without a flash if you mount a fast lens. To put it this way, your Optio M50 at ISO 100 looks about the same as a DSLR at ISO 1600.

B) The TZ5 and LX3 both take 720P video, but a DSLR like the Canon Rebel T1i or Nikon D5000 will take much better quality 720p video due to the much larger sensor (and thus much lower noise at high ISO). A DSLR also lets you mount different lenses to get that movie-like shallow depth of field in your videos. If you can afford it, I recommend a DSLR. There is obviously a learning curve, but it shouldn't take you more than a month or so to get all the basics down.

Well all right then, it's settled. I'll look used, whatever, but try for a DSLR. I'm assuming the T1i or the D5000 are at the lower end of DSLRs that can do what I want them to. If I can even kinda-sorta make the money work, that' what I'll get.

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: arrfep
My problem with my Optio is that A) Shots indoors are a blurry, cruddy mess and B) the Optio only takes VGA-quality video. I was thinking a fancier point and shoot would alleviate the horrible issues I have with taking indoor shots (due to mechanical image stabilization, the Optio can jack up the ISO value to try to take better indoor shots but the resulting picture looks like crap) and get me some acceptable video.

Let's address your issues 1 by 1:

A) This is due to the camera's poor high ISO performance, which it attempts to fix by using slower shutter speeds indoors. Without optical image stabilization, indoor shots will be noisy due to the camera bumping up the ISO. With such a small sensor, you cannot expect good performance at night or indoors.

The TZ5 will not really solve this issue completely. It does have a very good Optical IS system, but the sensor is still small and your shots above ISO 400 will still be quite noisy. The LX3 will be better than other point and shoots in this area, but still not at a level of a DSLR, which lets you take great shots even at night without a flash if you mount a fast lens. To put it this way, your Optio M50 at ISO 100 looks about the same as a DSLR at ISO 1600.

B) The TZ5 and LX3 both take 720P video, but a DSLR like the Canon Rebel T1i or Nikon D5000 will take much better quality 720p video due to the much larger sensor (and thus much lower noise at high ISO). A DSLR also lets you mount different lenses to get that movie-like shallow depth of field in your videos. If you can afford it, I recommend a DSLR. There is obviously a learning curve, but it shouldn't take you more than a month or so to get all the basics down.

Well all right then, it's settled. I'll look used, whatever, but try for a DSLR. I'm assuming the T1i or the D5000 are at the lower end of DSLRs that can do what I want them to. If I can even kinda-sorta make the money work, that' what I'll get.

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a used DSLR that does video. As of today only the following shoot video:

Nikon D90, D5000, Canon Rebel T1i: 720p

Panasonic G1H, Canon EOS 5D Mk. II: 1080p

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: arrfep
My problem with my Optio is that A) Shots indoors are a blurry, cruddy mess and B) the Optio only takes VGA-quality video. I was thinking a fancier point and shoot would alleviate the horrible issues I have with taking indoor shots (due to mechanical image stabilization, the Optio can jack up the ISO value to try to take better indoor shots but the resulting picture looks like crap) and get me some acceptable video.

Let's address your issues 1 by 1:

A) This is due to the camera's poor high ISO performance, which it attempts to fix by using slower shutter speeds indoors. Without optical image stabilization, indoor shots will be noisy due to the camera bumping up the ISO. With such a small sensor, you cannot expect good performance at night or indoors.

The TZ5 will not really solve this issue completely. It does have a very good Optical IS system, but the sensor is still small and your shots above ISO 400 will still be quite noisy. The LX3 will be better than other point and shoots in this area, but still not at a level of a DSLR, which lets you take great shots even at night without a flash if you mount a fast lens. To put it this way, your Optio M50 at ISO 100 looks about the same as a DSLR at ISO 1600.

B) The TZ5 and LX3 both take 720P video, but a DSLR like the Canon Rebel T1i or Nikon D5000 will take much better quality 720p video due to the much larger sensor (and thus much lower noise at high ISO). A DSLR also lets you mount different lenses to get that movie-like shallow depth of field in your videos. If you can afford it, I recommend a DSLR. There is obviously a learning curve, but it shouldn't take you more than a month or so to get all the basics down.

Well all right then, it's settled. I'll look used, whatever, but try for a DSLR. I'm assuming the T1i or the D5000 are at the lower end of DSLRs that can do what I want them to. If I can even kinda-sorta make the money work, that' what I'll get.

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a used DSLR that does video. As of today only the following shoot video:

Nikon D90, D5000, Canon Rebel T1i: 720p

Panasonic G1H, Canon EOS 5D Mk. II: 1080p

That's fine, if I can't find anything for around 500-600 bucks at most I'm just going to stick with what I have. I'd like to take good pictures, but not at the expense of completely blowing my budget.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: arrfep
My problem with my Optio is that A) Shots indoors are a blurry, cruddy mess and B) the Optio only takes VGA-quality video. I was thinking a fancier point and shoot would alleviate the horrible issues I have with taking indoor shots (due to mechanical image stabilization, the Optio can jack up the ISO value to try to take better indoor shots but the resulting picture looks like crap) and get me some acceptable video.

Let's address your issues 1 by 1:

A) This is due to the camera's poor high ISO performance, which it attempts to fix by using slower shutter speeds indoors. Without optical image stabilization, indoor shots will be noisy due to the camera bumping up the ISO. With such a small sensor, you cannot expect good performance at night or indoors.

The TZ5 will not really solve this issue completely. It does have a very good Optical IS system, but the sensor is still small and your shots above ISO 400 will still be quite noisy. The LX3 will be better than other point and shoots in this area, but still not at a level of a DSLR, which lets you take great shots even at night without a flash if you mount a fast lens. To put it this way, your Optio M50 at ISO 100 looks about the same as a DSLR at ISO 1600.

B) The TZ5 and LX3 both take 720P video, but a DSLR like the Canon Rebel T1i or Nikon D5000 will take much better quality 720p video due to the much larger sensor (and thus much lower noise at high ISO). A DSLR also lets you mount different lenses to get that movie-like shallow depth of field in your videos. If you can afford it, I recommend a DSLR. There is obviously a learning curve, but it shouldn't take you more than a month or so to get all the basics down.

Well all right then, it's settled. I'll look used, whatever, but try for a DSLR. I'm assuming the T1i or the D5000 are at the lower end of DSLRs that can do what I want them to. If I can even kinda-sorta make the money work, that' what I'll get.

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a used DSLR that does video. As of today only the following shoot video:

Nikon D90, D5000, Canon Rebel T1i: 720p

Panasonic G1H, Canon EOS 5D Mk. II: 1080p

That's fine, if I can't find anything for around 500-600 bucks at most I'm just going to stick with what I have. I'd like to take good pictures, but not at the expense of completely blowing my budget

Look around, you should be able to find a D5000 or T1i for 600 used or with some coupons.

The Panasonic G1H or Olympus E-P1 are also good choices if you want a smaller form factor. The sensors in these cameras are smaller than a DSLR sensor, but they're still miles ahead of point and shoots.

 

[jpeyton]

ZS3

 

[imported_Irse]

Remember that there is no autofocus when you are shooting video with a D90 and D5000. Don't know about the Canons

 

[scott916]

If I were you I'd go with one of the new waterproof Lumix's. It will be MUCH less of a hassle than a DSLR, which you'll likely regret bringing within the first week, especially if image quality isn't such a huge concern. If you have a waterproof camera, you don't have to worry about making absolutely sure it's packed correctly in the inevitable rain. I'd like to spend the time on a trip such as that enjoying it rather than worrying about my expensive and heavy camera equipment.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: California Roll

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Cool, thanks guys! So what's the difference exactly between AVCHD and Motion Jpeg? They're both 720p video, yes/no?

Yep, they're both technically HD/720p. The difference is compression rate. AVCHD quality is same or better than MJPEG, but the compression rate is much better. You can record more video on less space.

Edit: I'm pretty sure this is out of stock everywhere, but if you have a MicroCenter near you, check this http://www.microcenter.com/sin...tml?product_id=0283347

A brand new black/silver TZ5 for $102 was ridonculous.

OOS in Denver. Holy hell I would have jumped on that.