NEC DP2070sb CRT or DEll 2001fp LCD

[RaNDoMMAI]

Hi guys

I notice in the dream machine this year for maximum pc is this NEC CRT monitor
HERE

It is just about the same price as the Dell 2001FP LCD now.

I was wondering witch would be the better purchase and what the reasons are?

Size and space is not a problem here.

I plan on using this for surfing the web alot, spreadsheets, typing up papers, watching alot of anime, and games of course. Games will be EQ2 in the future and maybe one of the new FPS games.


Are there any other monitors or LCD that i should be considering?

TIA
~RaNDoM

 

[EddNog]

Good evening, RaNDoM MAI...

I am currently running an NEC MultiSync FE1250+, the forefather of the DP2070SB. While my monitor does not have the new model's SuperBright mode, the tube is the very same 22" Diamondtron NF, and I must say that I absolutely adore this monitor! The DP2070SB, being the Mitsubishi high end monitor based on this tube, happens to have more advanced electronics, which allow it to push to a higher maximum resolution (2048x1536, as opposed to my NEC's 1944x1440)...

Sitting right next to my FE1250+ is a Hitachi CML175SXW that I use on a daily basis as well. This is one of the new 16ms panels that compensate color gamut range for quicker response time for better gaming response. I have compared this LCD to both, my NEC FE1250+, and my ViewSonic P95f+, via both, analogue, and DVI, and must say that in terms of response rate in games, even this LCD stands no chance against a good CRT. If heat and space are no problem for you, and you plan to game at least somewhat seriously (although primarily FPS-genre), a CRT is still the best way to go.

Needless to say, LCD panels don't hold a candle to CRTs when it comes to color gamut and blackpoint. Doom3, for example, is a game that relies heavily on good black/grey/white contrast, blackpoint and response time, due to the unlit nature of most places on Mars and in hell. This is the main reason why I probably will never switch to LCD for my desktop graphics work; the color gamut and blackpoint are awful, and make color matching and image work extremely difficult to do accurately. With luck, OLED displays might be the solution.

There's also always the issue of native resolution. Even the LCDs with the best logic still get noticeably blurred once you go out of the native resolution of the panel. When it comes to gaming, in particular, it is critical to be able to change resolutions without suffering image quality loss. CRTs don't have this problem except in the case of poor quality graphics adapter filtering in combination with very high refresh rates, and even then, the effect is hardly noticeable in gaming situations (but much more obvious on your desktop).

I do happen to know that you're also a member of the SilentPCReview community, and I just wanted to add that many LCDs generate zero noise (my Hitachi is a good example, although my older Samsung 151P made a buzz noise at any brightness setting under 60, even though its power circuitry was in a separate power block!), while it's almost impossible to find a CRT that is completely noiseless (although some people say that if you can manipulate your resolution and refresh rate in the right way, it dumbs down the buzz quite well). If your system is putting out extremely low noise levels, the buzz of the CRT could be one of the most unbelievably annoying noises you might ever experience.

Cheers and good luck on your display search!

-Ed

 

[Velk]

I plan on using this for surfing the web alot, spreadsheets, typing up papers, watching alot of anime, and games of course. Games will be EQ2 in the future and maybe one of the new FPS games.

For surfing the web : the LCD monitor
For spreadsheets : the LCD montitor
For typing up papers : the LCD monitor
Watching anime : Tossup, I have no preference, I usually watch TV/DVDs on the CRT but that's mostly because I prefer using the LCD for other things at the same time.
Games : CRT, although the game everquest is a special case, as despite being a 3D graphical game, you spend at least as much time reading text as you do watching the image, so the tossup between great text perfomance and poor motion performance is much less obvious than with most games. I would imagine that EQ2 would continue that trend.

I use the 2001FP and a Philips 201P side by side for dual display, which tends to make the characteristics of each somewhat more obvious. For text reading there really isn't any comparison between the two - I wouldn't even consider reading a long document on the CRT now, but on the other hand the motion blur when panning with 3D games is very apparent, even with the 16ms refresh time of the dell panel.

Although I have seen criticisms of the color reproduction and black levels of LCD panels, I suspect that a rather more advanced view of what they actually *should* look like it required than mine, I do not find it to be an issue in any way - how much it matters to you only you can answer.

 

[CJP]

I've got the NEC FE2111SB crt monitor which is a step down from the NEC you're looking at. I love this monitor and I think it's got the same tube. Superbright is handy too so when you fire up a game just tap the superbright button and you get a brighter image.

On the downside it's a bloody huge monitor and heavy so not great on deskspace or for moving around alot.

 

[DrMindbender]

I'd go with the dell first off, because anime seems to look better to my eyes on LCD than CRT. Maybe its the even, less flickery picture. But really the specs for that NEC are insane, almost perfect. Like someone else said, if the size and heat etc. aren't a problem, go for it. Ultrabrite will make the picture sharper and colors more vibrant than the dell. One last point is that if you wear glasses or your eyes tire easily, the CRT will let you scale down the resolution better for reading small web text.

 

[RaNDoMMAI]

Thanks alot for all the detailed and informative respondes.

I was wondering about something DrMindbender said.

I do wear glasses and sometimes after i use my comp for like 2~4 hours straight my eyes do hurt. Does that really have to do with my CRT monitor? Would it acually help if i switched to a LCD?
Is there anything i can do now to help my eyes? i have it at 1600x1200 and 85Hz already, isnt that enough?

TIA
~RaNDoM

 

[EddNog]

RaNDoM, 1600x1200 @ 85Hz is extremely difficult for the mass majority of graphics adapters and onboard video engines on the market to reproduce razor sharp. Whether you realize it or not, the text is being blurred, and your eyes are straining in an attempt to fix it, because your mind is thinking that things are blurred, so you strain to get past the blur.

I'm assuming, of course, that you do not currently own a Matrox graphics card. If you do, then just ignore my comments. Matrox is the only currently available and affordable card that I know of on the market that displays 1600x1200@85Hz as sharp as it does 1600x1200@60Hz.

 

[abaez]

what are you talking about.. I run at 85hz ti4400 and it's fine. BTW I have a NEC 2141SB and it rocks. But it is heavy as hell (60 pounds) and takes up a huge amount of space. I would definately buy a 2001fp if I could easily sell this though.

 

[btacular]

I have the NEC/Mitsubishi 2070SB and it rocks... it is basically the 2141sb's tube with a couple of extra features

awesome monitor.... it's bulky but IMO CRTs can't be beat by even the best LCD for gaming.... but I know some people who disagree with me

 

[EddNog]

Well that means two things:

A) your GF4 is one of the ones with better quality filtering and

B) your eyes aren't overstraining to deal with the slight blurring.

For all we know your card doesn't blur nearly as badly as RaNDoM's, so it doesn't have to deal with it so much, plus your brain may not be prone to attempting to compensate for (seemingly) blurred vision.


Have you gotten any opportunity to compare 1600x1200@60Hz vs. 85Hz directly on your own machine? 60Hz should be sharper (maybe a whole lot, maybe only a little, but definitely sharper) but it should also be hard on the eyes from flicker.

Have you had an experience with your display on a Matrox card at all, at 1600x1200@85Hz? If you ever get a chance to compare your video card to a Matrox on the desktop at that setting, I suggest you try. The closer to the Matrox your GF4 is, the better it is.

-Ed

 

[abaez]

I'm actually runing 100hz 1600x1200 and I just switched to 60hz.. it does look sharper.. but my eyes start hurting almost immediately.. the difference is negligable though.

 

[EddNog]

That's a really nice GF4 you got, pal!

I wish my Visiontek Xtasy GF4Ti4200 was that good back when I had it. :frown:

The PNY Verto GF3Ti200 I had before that was even worse!!!

While the XFX 6800GT I have now is better than both of those, I don't think it's as good as my ATi 9500 or 9800 were. My Matrox G550, however, is still clearly better than any of them. While my old G400 MAX and Millennium II were better than any of my GeForces or Radeons, the G550 is still the best card I've ever owned, filter (or for most people, "2D") quality-wise.

-Ed

 

[RaNDoMMAI]

So maybe a video card upgrade will help? I am using a plain radeon 9200.

What Matrox would you guyz recommend? What about when i want to game later, would a 6800 or x800 be ok? i'm guessing this only matters for a CRT, on a LCD it wouldnt matter what card i used?

thx
~RaNDoM

 

[EddNog]

I don't particularly recommend Matrox cards to anyone unless they do absolutely ZERO gaming on that particular machine--Matrox's cards hardly support Direct3D 8, let alone 9 properly, and even the OpenGL support seems gimpy (Doom3 on Parhelia shows artifacts unique unto it).

You're partially correct that on an LCD it wouldn't matter; so long as you use a digital (DVI) hookup from the graphics card to the LCD, the filtering quality no longer matters. Any time you utilize the analogue (D-Sub/VGA) output from a video card, you run the risk of the filtering quality ruining your display output quality, including attaching LCD displays via the analogue line. In other words, if you buy an LCD, absolutely, positively do not settle for one with only an analogue hook-up.

Another reason to avoid analogue-only LCDs is that because LCD technology itself is a natively digital technology, by attaching your LCD panel in analogue, you are doing one digital to analogue conversion on your video card, and then another conversion, from analogue back to digital within the flat panel display. If you don't think this affects the quality of the image in and of itself, you're wrong--this is why even on Matrox adapters with their great filtering, digital LCD hook-up still comes out better looking than analogue hook-up. The one and only one caveat with digital hook-up is that with the greater majority of LCDs with digital connections, you will lose control over many of the LCD's functions once you switch it to digital (i.e. geometry controls, color balance etc.). This is obviously because you no longer really need access to those controls because the display is properly calibrated to begin with at this rate; however, I personally would have preferred if they didn't lock out color balance in digital mode on both of my LCDs.

-Ed

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: abaez
what are you talking about.. I run at 85hz ti4400 and it's fine. BTW I have a NEC 2141SB and it rocks. But it is heavy as hell (60 pounds) and takes up a huge amount of space. I would definately buy a 2001fp if I could easily sell this though.

I have this same monitor (NEC 2141SB) sitting next to my Planar PX191 19" LCD. I bought it almost 2 years ago and haven't used it at all since I got the Planar a year ago. It was lightly used before that. If someone wants to make me an offer, I'll listen. It's perfect except for a black pixel you'd never notice if you didn't know where to look for it. I was going to RMA it because of that pixel but decided that since it's perfect in every other way, I'd just keep it and consider myself lucky.

I don't game, so I use the LCD. Maybe if I did game, I'd see the value of the NEC. If I get it off my desk I will definitely consider getting another Planar PX191. Doing dual monitor with one LCD and one CRT is just ridiculous, I decided. The NEC is still in warranty (has 3 year warranty), BTW, and has the two super-bright modes, is a 22" monitor, 20" viewable. I have all the original materials and packaging and could ship it to someone in the original box, as originally packaged.