Nebraska and Oklahoma sue Colorado over marijuana legalization

[Jhhnn]

I know several detectives in mid-size and large cities throughout Texas who are now tasked almost exclusively with interdicting CO grown weed in Texas. It's selling for 10x the price that the Mexican stuff sells for. I was at some training with one of the guys last week up in Austin, and I asked him if he felt silly waging a war on weed when it's being legalized across the country. He said no, that the bank account seizures and property forfeiture that accompanies weed busts pay his salary. A nice car with a felony amount of weed in it pays his salary for 6 months, with a 60\40 split with the district attorney's office.

It's fundamentally immoral to outlaw anything for the sole purpose of funding law enforcement. If they're not making enough money, outlaw something else, too, just so long as you're not the guy getting busted.

How well does that bullshit carry through in the costs of prosecution & incarceration? How well does it fit into the smaller less intrusive gubmint song & dance?

 

[Nebor]

It's fundamentally immoral to outlaw anything for the sole purpose of funding law enforcement. If they're not making enough money, outlaw something else, too, just so long as you're not the guy getting busted.

How well does that bullshit carry through in the costs of prosecution & incarceration? How well does it fit into the smaller less intrusive gubmint song & dance?

Offenders are typically plead out as long as they don't try to fight to get their stuff back. It's like a catch and release system. That's why the DAs office gets a cut, to cover their work in the process.

 

[master_shake_]

isn't nebraska the meth state?

guess they don't want competition in the drug trade amirite?

 

[Jhhnn]

Offenders are typically plead out as long as they don't try to fight to get their stuff back. It's like a catch and release system. That's why the DAs office gets a cut, to cover their work in the process.

It's a license to steal at gunpoint, in other words. A system of involuntary bribes. Doing it just for the money is extortion by another name, isn't it?

 

[OutHouse]

When I bought some bud in Boulder, they insisted that I absolutely do not leave the state with it as it is proper to 'respect the wishes of our neighboring states'.

What shop and what strain did you get?

 

[positivedoppler]

Oklahoma ranks 8th overall in obesity with 28.1% of their adults obese 64.2% overweight and 15.4% children obese.

Nebraska ranks 18th overall with 26.5% of their adults obese and 63.9% overweight and 11.9% children obese.

Colorado is dead last at number 51 with only 21% of their adult population overall obese while 55% are overweight. 9.9% children are obese.

 

[Vic]

Offenders are typically plead out as long as they don't try to fight to get their stuff back. It's like a catch and release system. That's why the DAs office gets a cut, to cover their work in the process.

Which is corruption and government abuse, literally by definition. Criminals pretending to be the law.

 

[senseamp]

The whole legalization process is bizarre. The Controlled Substance Act provides for both civil and criminal penalties. Whether one agrees or not the DEA has not rescheduled drugs and so Colorado might as well say that it will not permit citizens to pay federal taxes if they so wish or not follow the Civil Rights Act, or absolutely anything that Federal Law prohibits. I can't think of any other law which was so brazenly ignored by both states and the Federal government. I'm for reform of MJ laws, but I'm not a fan of "let's just ignore the law". In essence this means that all laws are just a matter of not getting caught. There is no moral validity to a system which ignores itself.

Is Colorado stopping the DEA from enforcing the federal law?
If the feds want to spend their resources, house pot smokers in Federal prisons, etc, they are welcome to, and Colorado can't do much about it.

 

[Nebor]

It's a license to steal at gunpoint, in other words. A system of involuntary bribes. Doing it just for the money is extortion by another name, isn't it?

The laws in place that allow this to go on were voted for by the people's representatives. It seems like robbery to me.

 

[Jhhnn]

Is Colorado stopping the DEA from enforcing the federal law?
If the feds want to spend their resources, house pot smokers in Federal prisons, etc, they are welcome to, and Colorado can't do much about it.

True. OTOH, cannabis prohibition is utterly unenforceable w/o state & local participation. It's impractical at street level & also in court where federal prosecutors face a daunting task getting convictions for acts that are legal under CO law.

CO authorities still work closely with the feds wrt other drugs & acts that are illegal for both parties, like growing & smuggling large quantities out of state. There have been at least 2 big busts- one set of growers shipping to FL & another to MN. It's part & parcel of going legit.

Other states & congress need to figure it out for themselves, but we already have with a little help from the evil soul crushing freedom hating imperial Obama Admin & from their predecessors who allowed MMJ in something like 20 states.

Rather shortly, I suspect, our neighbors & the rest of the country will be freed of the fear of the unknown because they'll be forced to acknowledge the data about how legalization affects life in CO. We're looking good so far, very good, and that won't change. Nobody really knows how this will work out entirely, but we don't have to. We're just trying to do it honestly & well.

 

[Nebor]

I heard that the left-wing media has been suppressing widespread reports of reefer madness in Colorado. Local patriots have been unable to stave off the pot-crazed lunatics due to only having 10-round magazines for their assault rifles.

 

[Jhhnn]

The laws in place that allow this to go on were voted for by the people's representatives. It seems like robbery to me.

True. To be very generous, it might simply be due to the law of unintended consequences.

OTOH, I don't pretend to understand Texas very well, either. Y'all seem to be big on retribution in some truly perverse ways.

Anything for a good cause, right?

 

[Jhhnn]

I heard that the left-wing media has been suppressing widespread reports of reefer madness in Colorado. Local patriots have been unable to stave off the pot-crazed lunatics due to only having 10-round magazines for their assault rifles.

It's really much worse than that. They're putting it in the water supply, like fluoride, to pollute our precious bodily fluids, thus aligning our quantum neuronic waves in a way receptive to hippy dippy bullshit.

It's why they had to kill the Ambassador in Benghazi, because he found out & was going to spill the beans.

Hey, it makes as much sense as what they've been preaching for decades.

 

[Nebor]

True. To be very generous, it might simply be due to the law of unintended consequences.

OTOH, I don't pretend to understand Texas very well, either. Y'all seem to be big on retribution in some truly perverse ways.

Anything for a good cause, right?

This happens everywhere in the country, not just Texas. I've got friends who work in several federal law enforcement agencies. Everyone loves a drug bust because your department gets money for toys, it's very quantifiable (we took X pounds of dope off the street, worth X number of dollars) and there's virtually no recourse.

You don't see it, but in every major metro area you have the police department, the sheriffs department, the state police, the DEA, DHS, ATF and FBI (at a minimum) all vying for big drug busts.

 

[ch33zw1z]

This is all sorts of convoluted. And effing stupid as ehh. How do they plan to force the federal govt to enforce its own laws?

There's no plan, just shoot from the hip.

 

[Jhhnn]

This happens everywhere in the country, not just Texas. I've got friends who work in several federal law enforcement agencies. Everyone loves a drug bust because your department gets money for toys, it's very quantifiable (we took X pounds of dope off the street, worth X number of dollars) and there's virtually no recourse.

You don't see it, but in every major metro area you have the police department, the sheriffs department, the state police, the DEA, DHS, ATF and FBI (at a minimum) all vying for big drug busts.

I understand that. It's not the same as the "catch & release" w/ forfeiture you describe earlier. It's not what NE & OK are whining about, either, which is very small quantities of retail cannabis transported into their states.

I also realize that the war on marijuana is half the war on drugs & that legalization threatens the gravy train you describe. It'd mean half the gravy won't be there any more, the easy half.

The rationale for outright prohibition of any drug is that use of it causes significant societal harm, that it damages people who use it & those around them, too. Such prohibition also has to apply to a relatively small subset of the population if the people are to support it. That's why alcohol & tobacco can't be outlawed, regardless of how harmful they might be.

Cannabis use never satisfied the first part of that. If it did, we'd have ample evidence of it considering widespread use since the 60's. It doesn't satisfy the second criteria, either, rendering enforcement a travesty against equal protection & the principles of Justice & public welfare underlying due process.

While the acquisition of goodies may be sufficient motivation for law enforcement agencies, it also promotes an unhealthy mercenary attitude. Why would they direct their efforts towards crimes of violence & fraud when other directions are more lucrative?

It also leads to a variety of perverse outcomes. Landlords lose their property because of actions taken by their tenants & lenders lose their collateral through forfeiture. People lose substantial sums of cash on the presumption that it's drug money.

Arguments that it helps to defray the cost of law enforcement fall flat in the face of such underlying injustice. It also promotes acquiescence to the police state since we're not paying for it.

 

[IGBT]

dopers..

 

[Nebor]

I understand that. It's not the same as the "catch & release" w/ forfeiture you describe earlier. It's not what NE & OK are whining about, either, which is very small quantities of retail cannabis transported into their states.

I also realize that the war on marijuana is half the war on drugs & that legalization threatens the gravy train you describe. It'd mean half the gravy won't be there any more, the easy half.

The rationale for outright prohibition of any drug is that use of it causes significant societal harm, that it damages people who use it & those around them, too. Such prohibition also has to apply to a relatively small subset of the population if the people are to support it. That's why alcohol & tobacco can't be outlawed, regardless of how harmful they might be.

Cannabis use never satisfied the first part of that. If it did, we'd have ample evidence of it considering widespread use since the 60's. It doesn't satisfy the second criteria, either, rendering enforcement a travesty against equal protection & the principles of Justice & public welfare underlying due process.

While the acquisition of goodies may be sufficient motivation for law enforcement agencies, it also promotes an unhealthy mercenary attitude. Why would they direct their efforts towards crimes of violence & fraud when other directions are more lucrative?

It also leads to a variety of perverse outcomes. Landlords lose their property because of actions taken by their tenants & lenders lose their collateral through forfeiture. People lose substantial sums of cash on the presumption that it's drug money.

Arguments that it helps to defray the cost of law enforcement fall flat in the face of such underlying injustice. It also promotes acquiescence to the police state since we're not paying for it.

I agree with you 100%. I'm just a reserve cop, but there are way too many cops (mostly those who have never been in the military) who don't think twice about "to protect and serve." It's more like, "to buy cool shit and look badass." A lot of narcotics officers also get tunneled in pretty bad and buy into their own propaganda so that they think every guy with a baggie of weed is a hardened criminal that just finished murdering his competition and raping a little old lady. The "war on drugs" has created all of this, and left us with a largely militarized police force that acts very aggressively towards average citizens while failing to perform it's basic functions.

However at the root of it is the incentives, created by the law, created by the politicians, elected by the people. I don't blame people for reacting to incentives rationally.