Neat article, about the potential future of humanity, as shown by experiments on mice, and the real origins of 'The Secret of NIMH' the animated movie

Mar 11, 2004
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That was somewhat interesting. But...aren't you a millennial? For someone that chooses PC hardware over their own health, that seems weird for you to be criticizing a generation of people (that are hardly as homogeneous as you seem to suggest). Unless you're going "as a Millennial, I see myself acting exactly that way."
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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What does this have to do with old school rechargeable batteries?
You've obviously not seen the movie. It's quite well animated, it was done by hand, AFAIK. Get the DVD and watch it. It's kind of a kids/family "magical" movie.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
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Short, but fascinating.

I thought that it was interesting, the note about the later younger rats/mice, that "didn't know how to do anything", and instantly drew a mental parallel with Millennials.
If they don't know anything, perhaps it was because their predecessor generation did not teach them.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
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Is still published? Maybe I'll get it for my Kindle.


Amazon has it for sure ... kids book but I re-read it a few years ago and although I ripped through it in no time I definitely still enjoyed it as an adult.
 
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MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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We currently practice a bizarre form of the experiment, large city high schools. And, then we wonder why things like the rising number of school shootings occur?
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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Interesting article. The business of people not being interested in the potential solutions and only the problem fits with my view that humanity in general has been spending decades fantasising about its own destruction.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
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I read the article before seeing this post. Very interesting.

I didn't realize The Rats of NIMH was inspired by actual science experiments. I read the book while in high school.
 

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
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The Rats of NIMH was my favorite cartoon as a kid. I still watch it today even though my kids don't think it is a cool as I did.

Interesting article. The business of people not being interested in the potential solutions and only the problem fits with my view that humanity in general has been spending decades fantasising about its own destruction.

I believe that we as a species require problems to be mentally healthy. Humans are a problem solving animal, without problems we latch on to whatever comes along that we can turn into a problem. Today in modern world we just don't have that many real problems and it is causing people to lash out in all kinds of different directions trying to fill that void. We have plenty of solutions but very few real problems. Put us in a situation where all our needs are filled without any effort on our own and I expect that we will collapse just the same as these experiments.

Agent Smith said:
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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Ahh... LOL No. Thank G-d. But, sometimes I feel as helpless as one. I'm technically Gen-X.

Hi. Millenial here.

UnrealisticKeenAardwolf-max-1mb.gif
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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Think about it. We cram 5000+ students suffering from raging hormones and totally lacking in social skills, cultural mores or, life experience into an enclosed regulated environment giving them endless opportunities to fracture and isolate into small groups as small as one. The typical curriculum has zero programs or training to address any of these problems. Then, we shake out heads over increased violence and mass shootings while we repeat the same experiment over again.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Think about it. We cram 5000+ students suffering from raging hormones and totally lacking in social skills, cultural mores or, life experience into an enclosed regulated environment giving them endless opportunities to fracture and isolate into small groups as small as one. The typical curriculum has zero programs or training to address any of these problems. Then, we shake out heads over increased violence and mass shootings while we repeat the same experiment over again.

You have laid out a possible scenario. However, when looking at the variety of Mass Shootings that have taken place and the variables within them, I fail to see anything to suggest your alleged causes.

It is the Guns.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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You have laid out a possible scenario. However, when looking at the variety of Mass Shootings that have taken place and the variables within them, I fail to see anything to suggest your alleged causes.

It is the Guns.
Guns are a problem but, they have nothing to do with the underlying causes. Why do you think it's necessary that every one of those huge city high schools has it's own police force and/or metal detectors? We react to the symptoms but, no one addresses the causes. Over population being the main driver. But hey, we can't let our children's safety get in the way of economics.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Guns are a problem but, they have nothing to do with the underlying causes. Why do you think it's necessary that every one of those huge city high schools has it's own police force and/or metal detectors? We react to the symptoms but, no one addresses the causes. Over population being the main driver. But hey, we can't let our children's safety get in the way of economics.

You're still grasping at straws. The US isn't the only populous nation nevermind being "over populated", nor is it the only place where large schools exist. It is, strangely, where Guns are most common and where Mass Shootings are far more common.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Ahh... LOL No. Thank G-d. But, sometimes I feel as helpless as one. I'm technically Gen-X.

Dude, you've said on here you talk to your mom for 8 hours a day every day, and had serious health issues because of incredibly poor diet that you chose because you prefer to spend your money on an abundance of cheap PC hardware. You're basically the living embodiment of what people claim Millennials are, only they'd say you're a sad momma's boy geek on top of it because Millennials are supposedly ignoring everything but social media and coveting iPhones.

Its also very weird that you ignore several parts of that article, like how the guy straight up says people want to just blame shit and not think of solutions. Kinda like older generations trying to blame Millennials for anything and everything while they intentionally fuck things up and then try to blame it on Millennials. For fuck's sake we have a 70+ year old man that is more addicted to his Twitter than a Millennial teenage girl stereotype as the sitting President.

The other thing you ignore is that the helpless aspect came about due to generations of not needing to know how to do anything because everything was provided for them by a benevolent being, so they could just sit around eating and drinking and not giving a shit about anything. If you think that's true of Millennials then it was true of your gen and boomers too if you're making analogues to human society.

If they don't know anything, perhaps it was because their predecessor generation did not teach them.

What did you expect, someone to actually read and think about the article instead of just jumping to blame Millennials, while ignoring that article explicitly points out how fucking stupid that is? Or why they lost their knowledge of how to do things that not only did they not have to learn, but their parents and grandparents also didn't have to learn and therefore didn't pass onto them.

Guns are a problem but, they have nothing to do with the underlying causes. Why do you think it's necessary that every one of those huge city high schools has it's own police force and/or metal detectors? We react to the symptoms but, no one addresses the causes. Over population being the main driver. But hey, we can't let our children's safety get in the way of economics.

I was wrong, somehow missed the paragraph preceding where they took the final turn (where the females and males isolated and the males fought in aimless scrums because they had nothing better to do, just saw that they still had all the food and water but just chilled all the time and did nothing). I think we see a good amount of that behavior (guys falling for the pickup artist bullshit and treating dating as a game, while many women kinda isolate because they don't like that behavior, which then reduced the available mates further raising competition, while more of the females are driven off from looking due to the increasing behavior of the males). I'm just not sure if its higher than in the past, and I think it might be more prevalent in certain areas (cities for instance).

Did you read the article? Because that is the total opposite of what happened with the rats. They stopped fighting because they no longer had any need to as they were given food, shelter, and an abundance social interaction (without the need to establish dominance or other evolutionary things in order to continue their species - it led to them not fucking even which is why they died off). I'm not even sure that the crowding was the actual issue that led to the behavior that doomed them, although its interesting and I do think we see some parallels with modern society, where people perceive a lack of real personal space and so they indulge in escapism (via video games, movies, social media, etc). People self isolate due to overstimulus of the modern world, and so they withdraw, which leads to depression and other issues.

High schools though are different in several key areas, and thus we get much different results. One big one is that high schools have intense external pressures that didn't exist for the rats. High schools have routines and provide stimulus (classes), whereas the rats were free to kinda do whatever. The humans were also expected to move onto things later, while the rats just got to keep chilling.

It'd be interesting to recreate the tests while trying different things, stimulus for instance and see if it leads to the same results. And maybe different methods of dealing with the crowding issue.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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The Rats of NIMH was my favorite cartoon as a kid. I still watch it today even though my kids don't think it is a cool as I did.



I believe that we as a species require problems to be mentally healthy. Humans are a problem solving animal, without problems we latch on to whatever comes along that we can turn into a problem. Today in modern world we just don't have that many real problems and it is causing people to lash out in all kinds of different directions trying to fill that void. We have plenty of solutions but very few real problems. Put us in a situation where all our needs are filled without any effort on our own and I expect that we will collapse just the same as these experiments.

I can't agree with that. We're facing some of the biggest problems that humanity has ever faced. The issue is they're typically more abstract and require us to forego established luxuries, which we're not keen to give up. We've also weaponized most things to be addictive (media, food, drugs) which offers constant distraction and ability to ignore stress in favor of quick dopamine hits, further eroding our desire to deal with problems that can't be relatively easily dealt with.

That seems possible. The really interesting part though is how the scientist guy tried to experiment with non-physical ways of providing the stimulus needed to provide happiness as a means of possibly bypassing what he seemed to believe led to the issue (spiritual decline, and thus they lost the motivation to care about doing things to try and continue). I wonder what would have happened if he just tried some selective use of say anti-depressants. Or if the rats could have played some video game or something.

The really interesting part though is he sought to bypass that in ways that people are now blaming for the "spiritual" decline in the modern world. He thought ideas like the internet would fight that, while a lot of people seem to believe the opposite. I'm not sure that either is right or wrong. But there's interesting extrapolation out to say Matrix like living state where would we perhaps lock our physical selves into a minimum resource system, which freed our mental state?
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
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The US doesn't lead the world in mass shootings, per capita. Part of that BS is sourced from bunk research by Lankford that keeps getting parroted even though it's crap. And the US not being first is even more relevant when you take into account how many guns we actually do have here. If availability of guns was the reason for mass shootings, you'd have mass shootings in every goddamn city in the country, every day. You wouldn't be able to go to the grocery store without getting shot, which obviously is not the case.

CPRC research on mass public shootings

Sorry, it's off topic, but I hate that repeated crap. Now to your regularly scheduled thread.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
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You have laid out a possible scenario. However, when looking at the variety of Mass Shootings that have taken place and the variables within them, I fail to see anything to suggest your alleged causes.

It is the Guns.
Seriously? Did you go to high school?

I went to a HS where each of the four grades was over 1,000 kids, it was basically like walking through a subway station every day, passing hundreds of people you didn't know, except at any moment one of them might decide that he'll feel better about himself by beating the shit out of you for no reason other than to impress his friends. Add to that, after Columbine happened (toward the end of my sophomore year) an entire new layer was introduced, with people calling in gun threats from personal/pay phones, new avenues of bullying, the near-constant perceived threat of a shooter around every corner. Then for fun, add in an opioid crisis that affected some 30% of all adults in certain areas, completely fucking any chance those children had of a normal life, barring extremely good luck. I count myself among them.

But yeah there's no fucking chance any of that or any of the million things that happens to teenagers has anything to do with their violent outbursts. It's probably the hunk of metal locked up at home.