NC Senate passes Fracking Law that Criminizales informing public of chemicals used

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Works for Fox graphics dept.

And in a few years he'll probably be pinning this on the democrat controlled state legislature.

 

[K1052]

Did I say that?

No. I suggested that not needing to get permission from 15 layers of government was in keeping with smaller government.

Never said you shouldn't be required to get permission from ANY level of government.

Assuming such a use is allowed by state law already then really the only governments that would have to approve would be the city and/or county level. Most likely in this case only county approval would be required. One layer of approval is not onerous for anyone who is serious.

If a country decides to prohibit drilling in their jurisdiction it should be their decision. If the residents of that county disagree they can elect different officials.

 

[nehalem256]

Except that conservatism is all about local control of government. Unsurprisingly, you support government at the lowest level only so long as it does what you want.

Straw man.

No arguments here.

 

[nehalem256]

Assuming such a use is allowed by state law already then really the only governments that would have to approve would be the city and/or county level. Most likely in this case only county approval would be required. One layer of approval is not onerous for anyone who is serious.

If a country decides to prohibit drilling in their jurisdiction it should be their decision. If the residents of that county disagree they can elect different officials.

Or if you don't want drilling in your state then elect different officials to ban it.

 

[Zorba]

Is this law really even legal? Chemicals have to be defined in their MSDS sheets and MSDS sheets must be made available at the job site for all chemicals used. Hiding the identity of the chemicals would be against federal law.

 

[Thebobo]

This is probably only my 2nd or 3rd ever P&N thread, so please be gentle. This is an issue that has finally pissed me off to the point where it looks like I will finally get involved.

Story:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ll-that-would.html#.U33UBpDD_MI#storylink=cpy
Transalation: STFU hippies! If you pass out leaflets to the public or post on your internet blogs any factual information about what we're doing, your ass is going to jail!
Transalation: Local cities and towns - STFU and stay out of way. You have no voice or any right to decide whether you want this in your town. STFU!

The absolute arrogance and hubris exhibited by the backers of the bill is enabled by the unlimited money in politics post Citizens United. These a-holes are beholden only to money, and they know the average working person is powerless to fight them. So STFU and get out of the way.

I am so dismayed by this. I saw it coming, but now that it's here, I don't even have the satisfaction of I told you so.

Wow, just wow. Citizens United and the Koch brothers at it again.

Is the house going to pass?

 

[Cozarkian]

Assuming such a use is allowed by state law already then really the only governments that would have to approve would be the city and/or county level. Most likely in this case only county approval would be required. One layer of approval is not onerous for anyone who is serious.

If a country decides to prohibit drilling in their jurisdiction it should be their decision. If the residents of that county disagree they can elect different officials.

NIMBY laws tend to be bad laws, because they contribute to the free-rider problem that deters beneficial economic activity.

The other portion of this law is the concern. While I hope the goal was merely to protect proprietary information, it is overreaching to do so when it prevents people from analyzing the potential harm caused by a specific activity.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Wow, just wow. Citizens United and the Koch brothers at it again.

Is the house going to pass?

Of course. This is just one more thing on the to-do list.
http://www.wral.com/lawmakers-tighten-legislative-building-access-rules/13648349/
http://www.wral.com/bill-would-make-aerial-photos-gps-data-of-farms-off-limits/13647874/
http://www.wral.com/bill-aimed-at-reducing-lawsuits-raises-eyebrows/13659468/
Bonus:
http://www.wral.com/sergeant-at-arms-confiscates-reporter-s-recorder/13660523/

 

[PokerGuy]

Also gotta love how they make the names of these Nefarious laws sound like they are a good thing.

Yeah, kind of like the "affordable care act".

 

[K1052]

Or if you don't want drilling in your state then elect different officials to ban it.

Money has disproportionate effects at different levels of government.

 

[PokerGuy]

For the record, I'm completely opposed to the law taking the power away from the counties and cities to make their own decision as to what happens in their communities. If people want this stuff in their area, they can do it, and if they don't, they shouldn't be forced. I'm also completely opposed to trying to legislate keeping the toxic chemicals used as part of this process secret -- not only will it not work, but it's wrong. This stuff is pumped into the ground and ends up in people's water -- everyone should have a right to know what those chemicals are and what they do.

 

[hal2kilo]

Is this law really even legal? Chemicals have to be defined in their MSDS sheets and MSDS sheets must be made available at the job site for all chemicals used. Hiding the identity of the chemicals would be against federal law.

Good point. Let me guess, I bet there's some nice carve outs for the job creator oil industry though.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The MSDS sheets will have the chemicals contained in the fracking fluids however, it will not provide the proprietary formulation information.

 

[alzan]

So what happens if someone in Japan posts the NC fracking ingredients on a Canadian board and then someone in Kansas reads that post and mails a printout of the ingredients to a friend in NC?

People in Kansas can read?

Money - the best law-writer there is.

 

[brycejones]

People in Kansas can read?

hey fuck off!

 

[PokerGuy]

People in Kansas can read?

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/stateestimates.aspx

States with highest percentage of illiterates (lowest percentage of people with "basic prose literacy skills") are California, New York and Florida.

Kansas is actually one of the states with the highest literacy rates.

Carry on

 

[zinfamous]

Holy shit, nothing surprises me about the insanity coming out of my homestate these days. Truly saddening.

Seems that Governor Fuckstain, the Duke power stooge that he is, literally has no shame.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

To be fair to Fuckstain he is somewhat less insane than the GA.

Sometimes.

 

[zinfamous]

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/stateestimates.aspx

States with highest percentage of illiterates (lowest percentage of people with "basic prose literacy skills") are California, New York and Florida.

Kansas is actually one of the states with the highest literacy rates.

Carry on

Do they read anything other than the Bible? "Go Dog Go," maybe?

also, you realize those are piss poor standards, right? Do these literacy standards account for non-English speakers, considering that those "low literacy" states have very high immigrant populations?

 

[fskimospy]

Do they read anything other than the Bible? "Go Dog Go," maybe?

also, you realize those are piss poor standards, right? Do these literacy standards account for non-English speakers, considering that those "low literacy" states have very high immigrant populations?

No, they don't. They measure literacy in English. Regardless, I'm pretty sure it was a joke, haha.

 

[PokerGuy]

Do they read anything other than the Bible? "Go Dog Go," maybe?

I'm sure if you feel like looking up education rankings and scoring in standardized testing etc you'd find that Kansas usually in the top 15. I get that it was a joke, just pointing out that KS is actually one of the better states in terms of education.

Do these literacy standards account for non-English speakers, considering that those "low literacy" states have very high immigrant populations?

The reasons are subject for another discussion, the fact is that the percentage or residents that are functionally illiterate is much higher in most states than in KS.

 

[zinfamous]

The reasons are subject for another discussion, the fact is that the percentage or residents that are functionally illiterate is much higher in most states than in KS.

lol. Actually, no they aren't because that is precisely the point. When the standard for measurement is clearly inferior--not measuring what it is purporting to measure--then it is not a claim that one can honestly make. Literacy is literacy. The native language of the individual person is not a function of their literacy. By these standards, All of France is less literate than Kansas, and you know that is a stupid assertion--but it is exactly what this type of system will claim.

And more educated..that is up for debate. The majority of Kansas believes in creation/believes ID is a scientifically compatible theory to evolution. That can not be considered a proper level of education under any acceptable standard. However, I don't doubt that general education scores would be higher. Smaller communities, less minorities, less immigrants--again, testing scores that are and have always been tied to command of English and American cultural appreciation.


anyway....yeah, way off topic. sorry for veering off. Anything to draw attention away from my home state, which has become a national embarrassment, I guess.

 

[TheAdvocate]

I love this state - but the decisions by our GA and governer the last few years.... horrifying.

I drive across NC to go to OBX a couple times every year. That drive will be littered with Fracking wells within the next 5 years - a constant reminder that we are poisoning the ground and our water supply. More and more I know what it's like to be a bitter old man.

Is pokerguy normally for this type of thing? If so, that was a nice honest reality check, and it's appreciated. I don't know how anyone who styles themselves as small/local govt oriented (over big gov) can be for the extreme measures in this bill.

And also, I'm a realist/pragmatist. We do need energy. But there are other avenues of energy famring and job creation that are not so destructive to our land and health. I'd much prefer we (NC) pursue more solar, wind, hydroelectric, and natural gas from renewable sources. Lord knows the eastern part of the state can probably generate at least a city's worth of energy demand from the animal droppings alone. It's a nasty enterprise, but I wouldn't begrudge the provider a healthy $$ for doing it.

 

[Fern]

It was the democrat controlled state legislature before them that outlawed local municipalities from setting up their own ISP/content provider... After millions of dollars from Time Warner, Comcast, AT&T, etc flowed into their wallets.

Is either party worse than the other? Doubtful.

Nope.
And nope.


Confirmed.

Hey guys, FYI, local municipalities here are NOT outlawed from setting up their own ISP/content provider.

http://www.wired.com/2011/05/nc-gov-anti-muni-broadband/

Fern

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I drive across NC to go to OBX a couple times every year. That drive will be littered with Fracking wells within the next 5 years - a constant reminder that we are poisoning the ground and our water supply. More and more I know what it's like to be a bitter old man

Do you live west of Asheville? If not, you will not see any fracking wells as all the gas reserves in are west of Asheville.