NC H1380 Medical Marijuana Act in Health Committee June 18

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson

Originally posted by: Blackjack200
While I support this, at the end of the day, medical marijuana is a dead end.

...

Don't get me wrong, I hope this passes because it will help erode the idiotic policies in place at the federal level, but ultimately "medical marijuana" is a bankrupt idea.

May I point out that you contradict yourself. You give the idea value in that it will "help erode the idiotic policies in place at the federal level" but then say the idea is bankrupt and a dead end. Eroding idiotic policies is of great value, not a dead end and by no means bankrupt.

...

Semantics are fine and all, but people have used whole plants (and parts of plants) in medicine for thousands of years. In today's society, drug companies are very interested in phasing out any sort of effective traditional medicine and replacing it with a vast array of patented formulas that they pedal on an unsuspecting public by using well-meaning doctors as salesmen rather than working together with doctors to really provide the most effective care for any given patient.

What I mean when I say that the idea is bankrupt and a dead end is that the medical establishment will never subscribe to the use of cannabis as a legitimate therapy. It could be an end around and a path to full legalization, and in that sense, it is not a dead end, so I should have been more clear there.

While I agree with you to a point about the overuse of pharmacology in medicine, it should be pointed out that pharmacology has done an awful lot of good, and the principles behind it should not be discarded. If you are able to isolate the beneficial compounds in Marijuana, beyond just the THC, you can look at how those compounds might interact with other approved pharmaceuticals, you can find out what contraindications exist, and you may be able to allow people to medicate themselves without the psychoactive side effects (which not everyone wants). Has the Lancet, JAMA, or the New England Journal of Medicine ever come out in support of medical Marijuana? I know that the Lancet published a editorial about 10 years ago basically arguing that even in the long term, Marijuana use is safe, but it's hard for me to imagine any of them coming out in support of medical marijuana.

 

[DerekWilson]

In 1937 the AMA supported the medical use of cannabis. Many agencies are divided on support, and few if any (I have not heard of any) categorically deny the medical potential of cannabis. The AMA is currently evaluating it's overall position, while many within the AMA do support medical marijuana.

I can't find a good list for you right now ... It's a bit outdated at parts, but here is NORML's list of medical groups who support access to medical marijuana (though this is admittedly a different issue than the prescription or recommended use of medical marijuana). http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3390

There are some inaccuracies with the wikipedia page on medical cannabis that overestimate or overinflate the support of medical groups, which frustrates me as this just diminishes the impact of the huge body of real evidence and support that is out there.

The best I can do right now is that the ACP (American College of Physicians) and the ANA (American Nurses Association) support the medical use of marijuana. As for journals, many many journals have published studies which show the efficacy of the medical use of marijuana in some form or other and I really can't list them all here. Granny Storm Crow does a good job of that though

http://medicalmarijuanapatient...um/showthread.php?t=65

Actually, that list doesn't pull punches and has studies that show cannabis in a negative light as well ... It's way too much to sort through in one sitting though -- If you want to dig in, I suggest pacing yourself. The overall bent of most of the linked research is positive though.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
[snip]

Just want to say I hope you have good progress with your medical needs. I'm sure you are aware that if you think Marijuana is helpful, California has medical supply available to try it.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson

http://medicalmarijuanapatient...um/showthread.php?t=65

Actually, that list doesn't pull punches and has studies that show cannabis in a negative light as well ... It's way too much to sort through in one sitting though -- If you want to dig in, I suggest pacing yourself. The overall bent of most of the linked research is positive though.

Fair enough. I certainly believe that individuals should be able to use completely safe and non-toxic substances as they see fit, including uses for self-treatment. I also believe that Cannabis should be legalized and regulated like tobacco and alcohol.

Let me also echo Craig's sentiments and wish you the best with your condition, if cannabis is potential solution, I hope you are able to get access to it.

 

[DerekWilson]

Thanks ...

And while I would love to move out to California, that is unfortunately not feasible for my family at this point. Staying in NC would be ideal, but an eventual move is not off the table...

 

[Fear No Evil]

Anyone see my potato chips? I am freaking starving.

 

[DerekWilson]

So here's the update ...

I went to the meeting, and maybe a dozen or so people from or associated with the NCCPN (North Carolina Cannabis Patients Network) were there. Many of them wanted to speak but only two had the opportunity.

There was no vote yesterday, just the introduction of the bill to the committee and some questions for the bills sponsor followed by the two patients who wanted to speak.

They plan on bringing it back up before the committee, but I'm not sure they are obligated to ... I'm hopeful that it will get a vote as the bill's sponsor seems to think it will (though he's not sure if it'll be favorable or not).

In any case, it was sort of frustrating because many of the representatives in the committee asked questions to which I knew the exact answer they needed -- but representative Jones is a member of a legislative body and not a doctor, scientist, patient, or really very knowledgeable beyond the surface of the issues. Which is okay -- I mean, hey, he's listening to his staff and his constituents on this bill and I definitely appreciate that.

But it doesn't help a committee full of doctors who want to know why they should recommend a drug that has not been through the testing necessary for FDA approval.

In any event, I'm trying to get on the agenda to speak at the next committee meeting, but I don't know anyone on the committee and I have no idea how lobbying works at all. I'm totally shooting in the dark.

But I have the answers they need and I wish I could just sit down with each one of them and go over everything.

Anyway, at least it hasn't been shut down yet and there's still hope. I'll keep plugging away and I'll let you guys know next time it's up on the calendar.

 

[scott916]

:thumbsup: Thanks for your effort and activism.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200
There is already legal (at the federal as well as the state level) synthetic THC; it's called Marinol. But Marinol is not nearly as effective or useful as Marijuana because there are more than 400 chemicals in Marijuana that contribute to it's medical utility. Until someone can isolate all those compounds and do clinical research on their effects (almost impossible with a Schedule 1 substance) the AMA will never be behind it. Here's an excerpt from a letter written by a doctor:

Sorry, GF was given marinol when she went to the hospital

Summary: marinol = shit

 

[MikeMike]

Derek,

while i dont suffer from chronic migranes, or even consistent ones, i have had a few... i know when they are coming (left eye goes blurry, cant focus for about 20 minutes, then my head goes crazy and i cant stand any light... I had this happen once recently, and about 5 minutes after i got the blurry eye, i smoked... a decent amount... my eye was blurry for the 20 minutes, but then nothing... no headache, no need to get away from light, etc. It was the only time i have ever stopped it from happening (about 10 times id say in my life). And my eye doctor who i mentioned this to once said it was possibly a migraine and i should see him if it happened again... in the past year it hasnt happened, but it did happen about 1.5 years ago, and it was to late to see him...

also, marinol is synthetic thc, it contains non of the other cannabanoids found in marijuana.

 

[Marinski]

pass the bubba kush over here please

 

[Ns1]

FWIW-

Derek, does Exedrin Migraine work for you? Only thing that works for the gf...

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Ns1
FWIW-

Derek, does Exedrin Migraine work for you? Only thing that works for the gf...

Only thing that works for me is BC Powder extra strength, two of them.

Takes the edge off the jaw to head pain and makes it so I can move my eyes without pain.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
So here's the update ...

I went to the meeting, and maybe a dozen or so people from or associated with the NCCPN (North Carolina Cannabis Patients Network) were there. Many of them wanted to speak but only two had the opportunity.

There was no vote yesterday, just the introduction of the bill to the committee and some questions for the bills sponsor followed by the two patients who wanted to speak.

They plan on bringing it back up before the committee, but I'm not sure they are obligated to ... I'm hopeful that it will get a vote as the bill's sponsor seems to think it will (though he's not sure if it'll be favorable or not).

In any case, it was sort of frustrating because many of the representatives in the committee asked questions to which I knew the exact answer they needed -- but representative Jones is a member of a legislative body and not a doctor, scientist, patient, or really very knowledgeable beyond the surface of the issues. Which is okay -- I mean, hey, he's listening to his staff and his constituents on this bill and I definitely appreciate that.

But it doesn't help a committee full of doctors who want to know why they should recommend a drug that has not been through the testing necessary for FDA approval.

In any event, I'm trying to get on the agenda to speak at the next committee meeting, but I don't know anyone on the committee and I have no idea how lobbying works at all. I'm totally shooting in the dark.

But I have the answers they need and I wish I could just sit down with each one of them and go over everything.

Anyway, at least it hasn't been shut down yet and there's still hope. I'll keep plugging away and I'll let you guys know next time it's up on the calendar.

A suggestion:

Draft up a FAQ on the Q&A's that you think they need to hear about.

Might get the NCCPN to help draft (or approve/sign off on) or distribute to the appropriate committee members/staffers.

Fern

 

[piasabird]

MMJ is not being used to treat people for any medical problems. From what I saw on news reports is any fool can get MMJ, and some of the doctors giving patients the MMJ card in california should be sent to jail.

I am against any law that was meant to be abused from the very beginning. Instead of calling it Medical MJ why not just be honest and fully legalize it and tax it also. It is kind of a waste of time for cops to chase people with 2 or 3 grams of MJ when in california in some places they are growing it legally from fencepost to fencepost.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200
While I support this, at the end of the day, medical marijuana is a dead end.

twice i've met people with really bad burns, once at a medical marijuana place. and even had the chance to talk with them, which takes some getting used to when their skin is mostly scar tissue. so, they're regular people except - they had a bad burn.

who would stand in the way of someone like that getting medical marijuana, if it helps them live with their condition ?

yes, for many patients, you'd be half-right if you said, "can't they just take aspirin ?"

but for some patients, the next stop in terms of pain management is something heavy duty, like Oxycontin.

 

[DerekWilson]

Originally posted by: Ns1
FWIW-

Derek, does Exedrin Migraine work for you? Only thing that works for the gf...

It used to be what I'd take... until it started causing rebound headaches. Abortive treatments can sometimes start triggering more migraines.

For me it started slow -- I would get maybe one migraine every 6 months and some exedrin and sleep seemed at least to help. Of course I'd need to block out all the light in my room and make it as quiet as possible...

Then I'd get one every 3 months ... at this point, to have any impact on anything the exedrin wasn't enough -- It got to the point where I'd need to take 1 gram of acetaminophen (then another 4 hours later), 1 gram of ibuprofen (possibly another 6 hours later), 400mg of caffeine (four strong cups of coffee). About an hour after this cocktail I might feel enough slight relief to fall alseep ... of course, sometimes the pain was so bad that I would just pass out ...

Every once in a while the above won't kill you, but when my migraines started happening once a month stuff got bad. I started getting rebound headaches (which I hadn't had before) and that's when I started taking imitrex (which didn't work) then switched to maxalt (which did help).

After about a month of taking maxalt as an abortive and having a migraine about once a week I ended up in a very bad place -- the migraine would not go away and stay away. I'd get relief for a few hours at best and every time I got a rebound headache. For about a month I tried different treatments and while some things would stop the migraine it would always come back. during this time i tapered off caffeine altogether, changed other aspects of my diet, and did many other things that were suggested to no avail.

Then I tried topamax (and anticonvulsant) which, after about two weeks of increasing dosages in combination with maxalt as an abortive effectively broke the cycle.

but the cost was INCREDIBLY high. no pain, but I couldn't find words I was looking for, had lots of memory problems, shut down communication with loved ones, everything tasted funny, my hands and feet tingled or felt numb often ... basically everything else sucked. my quality of live was significantly lower. they "affectionately" call it (ironic given the discussion topic) dope-a-max ...

and so i quit taking topamax, holding some in reserve in case i needed to stop a cycle like the one that got me to try topamax in the first place.

A good month is a one migraine month for me.

it's not as much the occasional migraine that i'm petrified of (despite the fact that it is debilitating) it is the inability to escape migraines for an extended period. if cannabis could help me with this type of an issue ... well ... i can't tell you how much my (and my family's) quality of life would improve. taking care of the random migraine would be great, but enabling me to avoid situations where i essentially can do nothing but lay in bed in pain for a month or more...

... the whole thing just really pisses me off. i've exhausted OTC solutions, perscription pain killers, abortive treatments, and while preventative treatments can work they have incredibly high down sides and are arguably worse than the problem the are prescribed to fix.

there are many people out there who are fighting similar battles with migraines or other illnesses that absolutely deserve the best treatment available. In many cases, that treatment is cannabis. And if you live in NC, you are denied the right to make use of this treatment.

it is criminal.