Natural gas or electric?

[John Connor]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...better-electric-cars-or-natural-gas-vehicles/

1. Efficiency. EVs tend to win hand down in this category, primarily because the large natural gas-burning turbines at power plants remain far more efficient than the small ones squeezed into cars. A 2010 report from MIT states:
While both EVs (electric vehicles) and NGVs (natural gas vehicles) have significant infrastructure requirements, there are major differences in their relative efficiencies. An NGV does not have comparable efficiency gains relative to electrification via natural gas generation. In general, 1,000 cubic feet (cf) of natural gas, converted to electricity, yields 457 miles in an EV. This same 1,000 cf in an NGV would only have a range of around 224 miles. (The quote comes from page 24 of the study.)

-Snip-


And it could take years for many fleet owners to get over range anxiety. A government agency that needs cars to check out municipal softball fields might be able to get by with electrics, but taxi routes are unpredictable. The passenger that gets in at O’Hare Airport might need to go downtown, or to Northern Indiana.
Expect the discussion to go on for years.

I'm more for NG myself. The comments in the article explain further. I like this one for example.

It seems to me that your numbers are heavily weighted to make EVs look good and NGVs look bad.
Reading this article I’d have the impression that only a fool would choose a natural gas vehicle.
Experience seems to paint a far different picture. There are about 14 million NGVs on the road worldwide. They are popular and gaining in popularity rapidly in Europe, South America and Asia. And they are a time tested and proven technology.
Natural gas can be used in the same engine along with other fuels as well. The Fiat Siena Tetrafuel can run petroleum gasoline, ethanol and petroleum mixtures, pure hydrous ethanol, and/or natural gas—–you can’t do that with electric.

Lets say you.



Not sure if this should be in P&N. It's not political though.

 

[disappoint]

EVs and build more nuclear power plants.

 

[John Connor]

I like nuclear power, but very expensive. Plus you have to store or reprocess the waist and reprocessing is expensive too. France reprocesses their nuclear fuel.

 

[mizzou]

EV is better long term.. Natural Gas is subject to the same limitations as oil, especially if every car out there operates on NG.

The only big hurdle with EV is operation distance and charge time.

 

[vi edit]

I think the real answer is there is no magic bullet that works for every application. What works for a city dweller with a short urban commute is different than somebody that has to travel 60 highway miles on a daily basis. Which is different from taking a family car on a 400 mile vacation trip. Which is different than a tractor trailer pulling a 55' metal box with tens of tons worth of payload in it.

I think GM is on the right path with the philosophy behind the volt. Keep something EV as long as you can but then put in a small generator that will recharge on the fly as needed eliminating range worry. Where we can improve things there is the fuel source of the generator and battery tech to increase density/reduce size as we learn new ways.

 

[John Connor]

That's interesting. I didn't know they were fitting in a generator.

 

[z1ggy]

Why not both? This isn't one current form of fuel for every application now, so why do we think there needs to be one in the future? They both have their places.

 

[John Connor]

The airport here is using NG. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/br...-help-drive-environmentally-friendly-airport/

Wonder if you can fly a plane on NG?

 

[vi edit]

That's interesting. I didn't know they were fitting in a generator.

Not a generator in a traditional sense...but that's what it's doing. It's a small ICE that doesn't drive the wheels. It's job is to trickle charge the battery pack back up. BMW is doing the same thing with it's upcoming EV lineup. They are dropping in a small motorcycle engine to charge the battery as means of a "range extender".

 

[John Connor]

And the motorcycle engine can be powered from NG! LOL

 

[vi edit]

And the motorcycle engine can be powered from NG! LOL

And that's sort of the beauty of that setup. You can make it modular based upon access to certain fuels. Gas, diesel, NG, ethanol, ect. Nothing says it *has* to be petrol.

 

[John Connor]

Is that what they are doing? I guess?

 

[Murloc]

NG has the same issues of any other fossil hydrocarbon.
It's a transition fuel I guess.

 

[NutBucket]

Issues are similar but I guess NG is plentiful in North America (as a natural resource) and burns much cleaner than gasoline/diesel.

I considered buying a CNG Civic but ultimately that didn't happen.