NATIVE PCI EXPRESS

[humanentity]

Ok guys i see that here there r a lot of ppl screaming for a nu gen Ati\Nvidia card. But i ask myself if anyone will wait for native pci express cards instead of getting an almost to die (at least as pro 3d bus) agp format or even a non native pci express solution (read: a card which uses a bridge to be capable of plugging in a pci express slot without using at all the broadband of pci express connection).

Obviously if ur card is a bit old it might be not so stupid to run for one of this nu candys but if not, wouldn´t be better to wait eight months (or whatever) to get a nu card that will be a REAL NEW GEN CARD?

too much changes are going to ocurr in next 6 to 8 months:
Serial Ata 2 300mb/s instead of 150mb/s (the equivalent to use now 2 sata one hd in raid 0)
pci express
64 bit : (THE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE)
windows 64 bit edition release
spread of 64 bit amd processor in the gaming community
RELEASE OF THE FIRST 64 BIT VERSION OF GAMES (ut2k4 64 bit edition in 3 to 4 months)

(first impressions of benchy ppl with almost not 64bit suitable drivers is talking about 40% boost in performance specially during loads)

so i really consider a big mistake TO UPGRADE NOW THAT ALL OUR MOBOS ARE GOING TO TURN INTO OLD CRAPP.


my conclusion:
if you can afford a graphic card upgrade now save for 6 to 8 months more and get a new mobo with an amd 64 bit processor, windows 64 bit edition, pci express, agp, and pci slots, sata 2 connectors, and all the stuff to connect in such juicy places,... and why not, a double layer dvd writer would be nice

that r my thoughs pls flame them,... but not too much

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: humanentity
Ok guys i see that here there r a lot of ppl screaming for a nu gen Ati\Nvidia card. But i ask myself if anyone will wait for native pci express cards instead of getting an almost to die (at least as pro 3d bus) agp format or even a non native pci express solution (read: a card which uses a bridge to be capable of plugging in a pci express slot without using at all the broadband of pci express connection).

Obviously if ur card is a bit old it might be not so stupid to run for one of this nu candys but if not, wouldn´t be better to wait eight months (or whatever) to get a nu card that will be a REAL NEW GEN CARD?

too much changes are going to ocurr in next 6 to 8 months:
Serial Ata 2 300mb/s instead of 150mb/s (the equivalent to use now 2 sata one hd in raid 0)
pci express
64 bit : (THE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE)
windows 64 bit edition release
spread of 64 bit amd processor in the gaming community
RELEASE OF THE FIRST 64 BIT VERSION OF GAMES (ut2k4 64 bit edition in 3 to 4 months)

(first impressions of benchy ppl with almost not 64bit suitable drivers is talking about 40% boost in performance specially during loads)

so i really consider a big mistake TO UPGRADE NOW THAT ALL OUR MOBOS ARE GOING TO TURN INTO OLD CRAPP.


my conclusion:
if you can afford a graphic card upgrade now save for 6 to 8 months more and get a new mobo with an amd 64 bit processor, windows 64 bit edition, pci express, agp, and pci slots, sata 2 connectors, and all the stuff to connect in such juicy places,... and why not, a double layer dvd writer would be nice

that r my thoughs pls flame them,... but not too much

-Hard drives dont even utilize ATA66 yet, SATA-300 is a checkmark feature.
-64 bit doesnt matter, windows-64 is in its infancy and has major 32bit compatibility problems.
-64 bit drivers are basically non exsistant.
-Where youre seeing 40% gains in perforamnce in 64 bit is beyond me, because in windows-64 on the AT preview there was a 50% LOSS in perofrmance.
-PCI Express is another checkmark feature as AGP8X isnt even utilized yet
-PCI Express motherboards with NOT have AGP slots (although boards that have both may come out, PCI-E is meant to replace AGP, not compliment it)
-This post belongs in general hardware, as it doesnt have much if anything to do with video/graphics.

 

[humanentity]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

-Hard drives dont even utilize ATA66 yet, SATA-300 is a checkmark feature.
-64 bit doesnt matter, windows-64 is in its infancy and has major 32bit compatibility problems.
-64 bit drivers are basically non exsistant.
-Where youre seeing 40% gains in perforamnce in 64 bit is beyond me, because in windows-64 on the AT preview there was a 50% LOSS in perofrmance.
-PCI Express is another checkmark feature as AGP8X isnt even utilized yet
-PCI Express motherboards with NOT have AGP slots (although boards that have both may come out, PCI-E is meant to replace AGP, not compliment it)
-This post belongs in general hardware, as it doesnt have much if anything to do with video/graphics.

well i know that but i´m not going to wait till -all- the software industry uses those extra features, there are applications that will gain in performane from the first day this stuff is released. and concerning the windows 64 bit performance was tested under the worst situation possible without almost any appropiate driver nor companies support and even in this situation the discovered some radical changes like apps loading time that was almost instantaneous.


and,... video = hardware, half the posts here are about 3d cards so it´s not so clear that i´m supposed to post -native pci express- under -hardware forum topic-. But i recognize that my enthusiasm led me to add lot of things that are out of the topic,...

anyway it´s still a question for those ati/nvidia enthusiasts here that r going to run for a nu card,...

 

[oldfart]

The new WD Raptors (finally) broke the 66 MB/s STR ATA66 barrier. ATA300? That wont be needed for a LONG time.

 

[Acanthus]

Also serial ATA300 is in no way faster than 150 at this time, a SATA300 raptor wouldnt even be 1% faster under ideal conditions.

You are sorely mistaken about the performance benefits of AMD-64, what applications were opening "instantly"? MS office apps open "instantly" no matter what youre running as long as the hardware is fairly recent, even on a celeron pos.

Do you have any links that show 40% increases in 64bit? I haven't seen anything over 10% yet and the 10% increases were in linux, not windows-64.

Im not really understanding what you mean by "real next gen card" are you referring to DX10? thats not til late 2005, or even early 2006. With supporting games not even arriving until 2007. In 6 to 8 months ATi will be releasing R500, and NVIDIA will be releasing a clocked up refresh of the NV4X design.

Native PCI express wasnt the focus of your post (from what ive gathered). You were just blabbing about technologies that will only be margainal performance differences at best and advising people to wait for new technology...

A system with all of these things you are saying to wait for wouldnt be any more than 10% faster than whats out now and it will come at an ENORMOUS premium.

 

[ForceCalibur]

If your gonna wait that long, you might as well go for BTX. But uh, your whole argument basically boils down to:

SATA bandwitdth: the whole of SATA (right now) is to reduce cable clutter and simplify interface. Sure it has higher bandwidth, but until we get physical drives that have seek times <1 second, at RPMs > 40,000 , totally pointless.
PCI-express: The Radeon 9800 XT barely saturates AGP4X. THe next gen cards aren't even going to come CLOSE to filling up AGP8X. Most of this is due to games, but, it will be VERY long time before PCI-express will be bandwidth beneficial. Right now, we're looking at latencies, where PCi-express might help, but until we see the comparisons, can't say for sure.
64 Bit: Sure, its nice, but you can get one in a month or two, you don't have to wait that long.

And funny you didn't mention DDR2, or BTX. Cause those are big.

 

[reever]

and concerning the windows 64 bit performance was tested under the worst situation possible without almost any appropiate driver nor companies support and even in this situation the discovered some radical changes like apps loading time that was almost instantaneous.

And how exactly does this help the importance of 64 bit?

 

[Edge3D]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: humanentity
-Hard drives dont even utilize ATA66 yet, SATA-300 is a checkmark feature.
-64 bit doesnt matter, windows-64 is in its infancy and has major 32bit compatibility problems.
-64 bit drivers are basically non exsistant.
-Where youre seeing 40% gains in perforamnce in 64 bit is beyond me, because in windows-64 on the AT preview there was a 50% LOSS in perofrmance.
-PCI Express is another checkmark feature as AGP8X isnt even utilized yet
-PCI Express motherboards with NOT have AGP slots (although boards that have both may come out, PCI-E is meant to replace AGP, not compliment it)
-This post belongs in general hardware, as it doesnt have much if anything to do with video/graphics.