National parks to be closed if GOP succeeds in shutting down the government :(

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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
If the Democrats can't handle $33 Billion in cuts, what are you going to do when the REAL cuts that have to be made are proposed?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Bush and GOP crashed the economy, hence the big deficits now. Don't want the deficits, don't let Republicans lead the country, ever.

You mean the housing bubble that well under way before bush even took office? Lots of players in that buble, many of them democrat.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
If the Democrats can't handle $33 Billion in cuts, what are you going to do when the REAL cuts that have to be made are proposed?

Fair question.. but the REAL cuts are going to be made in entitlements and defense, so I guess we'll have to wait to see what their proposal is. Likely will be much less conservative than Ryan's. Ryan is proposing to pretty much eliminate national debt and I don't think we need to go all the way down to 5% or less of GDP to be debt.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
If GOP wants to take the heat for shutting down the government, like WI Dems took for fleeing the state, then they can proceed. Politically I think it will be a disaster for them. Unfortunately it could tip the country into a double dip recession which is going to add hundreds of billions more to the debt, and create a lot of suffering in the process.

Ahh, back to the topic. The long term outcome of whatever shutdown is hard to say as we don't know how long it will last or how it ends.

From the perspective of many independents this appears yet another case of children playing with matches. That includes both the Reps and Dems. Personally I don't think the Reps should move the goalpost and I believe both sides should be more honest about their budgets. Neither will because the tendency will be to use these things as tools for leverage.

I think we need to toss both parties.
 

NetGuySC

Golden Member
Nov 19, 1999
1,643
4
81
We really need term limits, politicians worrying about re-election is going to literally destroy this country. If they make the hard decisions now, they know their re-election will never happen.

This plane is crashing as the Repub and Dem pilots are only worried about who will be blamed in the future news story about their plane crashing.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
The GOP House has proposed a version. That is their constitutional duty.

Then Senate has the choice to accept the bill as is or make modifications.
Modifications are then worked out in a committee of both House and Senate.

The final is then presented back to both Chambers,
The cycle goes on until something is acceptable and sent to the President.

When the Dems controlled both the House and Senate, they had the ability to generate an budget that was acceptable to all participants in the budget handling. They chose to not do so.

Now the country realizes that they did not.
The country also changed the makeup of the House to try and lite a fire under the system.
The change also demonstrated that having one party completely in charge was not a good thing.


Partisan hacks will feel that is was a good thing and now that they do not have complete control all failures are the result of the other party.
The country may see it differently. A message was sent to clean up your mess. Apparently the message may not have been heard.

Expect for 2012, there will be a lot more Dems running scared from their constituents.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
We really need term limits, politicians worrying about re-election is going to literally destroy this country. If they make the hard decisions now, they know their re-election will never happen.

Useless. The parties will merely clone another.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Ahh, back to the topic. The long term outcome of whatever shutdown is hard to say as we don't know how long it will last or how it ends.

From the perspective of many independents this appears yet another case of children playing with matches. That includes both the Reps and Dems. Personally I don't think the Reps should move the goalpost and I believe both sides should be more honest about their budgets. Neither will because the tendency will be to use these things as tools for leverage.

I think we need to toss both parties.

Dems accepted what Boehner asked for. He's playing games now, because he knows the Republican base does not want him to compromise with Democrats, even on his terms. So he'll keep moving the goal posts until it becomes excruciatingly clear to him what kind of political pain he's signing the Republicans up for.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
The GOP House has proposed a version. That is their constitutional duty.

Then Senate has the choice to accept the bill as is or make modifications.
Modifications are then worked out in a committee of both House and Senate.

The final is then presented back to both Chambers,
The cycle goes on until something is acceptable and sent to the President.

When the Dems controlled both the House and Senate, they had the ability to generate an budget that was acceptable to all participants in the budget handling. They chose to not do so.

Now the country realizes that they did not.
The country also changed the makeup of the House to try and lite a fire under the system.
The change also demonstrated that having one party completely in charge was not a good thing.


Partisan hacks will feel that is was a good thing and now that they do not have complete control all failures are the result of the other party.
The country may see it differently. A message was sent to clean up your mess. Apparently the message may not have been heard.

Expect for 2012, there will be a lot more Dems running scared from their constituents.

It never ceases to amaze me how everyone on here always believes the rest of America agrees with whatever they think.

You're almost certainly wrong, but we'll just find out, huh.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Dems accepted what Boehner asked for. He's playing games now, because he knows the Republican base does not want him to compromise with Democrats, even on his terms. So he'll keep moving the goal posts until it becomes excruciatingly clear to him what kind of political pain he's signing the Republicans up for.

Then he'll pay the price.

My complaint about parties goes beyond this. The Dems proposed budget neglected to account for what will certainly cost much more than they said and the Reps are arguing over what is a drop in the bucket to begin with.

In the mean time no one is proposing needed reforms, no one wants to. Fighting over trivialities makes as much political hay as doing the hard work of making things better. The path of least resistance is what's almost taken.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Then he'll pay the price.

My complaint about parties goes beyond this. The Dems proposed budget neglected to account for what will certainly cost much more than they said and the Reps are arguing over what is a drop in the bucket to begin with.

In the mean time no one is proposing needed reforms, no one wants to. Fighting over trivialities makes as much political hay as doing the hard work of making things better. The path of least resistance is what's almost taken.

Ryan is proposing $4T in cuts at a time the country is on a brink of a double dip recession.
Skipping meals to avoid debt when you are already malnourished is not good financial planning, it's stupidity that will land you in a hospital or worse.
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
Shut this whole motherfucker down till the teabaggers beg for it back. Lets find out who really are the self made men. The stand alone pioneers.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Ryan is proposing $4T in cuts at a time the country is on a brink of a double dip recession.
Skipping meals to avoid debt when you are already malnourished is not good financial planning, it's stupidity that will land you in a hospital or worse.

So your solution of making tomorrows meal even more unaffordable is somehow better?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
So your solution of making tomorrows meal even more unaffordable is somehow better?

A double dip recession is not going to help with the debt, you do realize that? It's only going to add more to it and make it harder to repay with a smaller economy.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
It was not well under way before Bush even took office.

Had a single bill not been repealed we would not have had a problem even close to what we had.

Wanna guess what that bill was and who signed its repeal?

Both sides are owned by the same assholes. Could you remind me how many banksters, that committed fraud that even I could prosecute, have been indicted since the Dems took over?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I am not sure what is more pathetic. Republican cuts that amount to a fart in the wind or the democrats who are calling that fart draconian. But the truely pathetic part is watching the partisan hacks scurry about to defend this charade.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
I am not sure what is more pathetic. Republican cuts that amount to a fart in the wind or the democrats who are calling that fart draconian. But the truely pathetic part is watching the partisan hacks scurry about to defend this charade.

Who are these people?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Good, the national parks are an extreme decadence that we can no longer afford as a nation.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
I am not sure what is more pathetic. Republican cuts that amount to a fart in the wind or the democrats who are calling that fart draconian. But the truely pathetic part is watching the partisan hacks scurry about to defend this charade.

Yup, if the republicans are going to be accused of "draconian" cuts, can we at least see some substantial cuts proposed? 400-500 billion would be a good start.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
A double dip recession is not going to help with the debt, you do realize that? It's only going to add more to it and make it harder to repay with a smaller economy.

These right wingers don't understand basic economics. They think it helps the economy when you lay people off.

No wonder they support outsourcing and union busting so vehemently. They believe workers are a drain on the economy, sapping success and economic prosperity from the long suffering conservative Captains of Industry.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
These right wingers don't understand basic economics. They think it helps the economy when you lay people off.

No wonder they support outsourcing and union busting so vehemently. They believe workers are a drain on the economy, sapping success and economic prosperity from the long suffering conservative Captains of Industry.

It helps when you lay off people who are not doing anything useful, yes.

Left wingers think if we just funnel all of our money to DC they will know how to dole it out to allocate resources for the entire country.
4 trillion a year is being funneled to DC, look at our great economy huh!
Can't get rid of anything though, god forbid a single person gets laid off from their government job.
We can't have one less soldier, one less subsidy, one less government bureaucrat, or one less wasteful government project or program. Gotta keep this great economy up.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
It helps when you lay off people who are not doing anything useful, yes.

Left wingers think if we just funnel all of our money to DC they will know how to dole it out to allocate resources for the entire country.
4 trillion a year is being funneled to DC, look at our great economy huh!
Can't get rid of anything though, god forbid a single person gets laid off from their government job.

So who is going to get laid off that isn't doing anything useful?

Funnel our money to DC? Try funneling money we borrowed from China into our economy. Forcing a shutdown to avoid borrowing 11 billion, or whatever, is not going to help our economy in any way, but instead creates uncertainty. There are probably other bad effects on the economy... I mean think about all the Social Security recipients who won't get a check.