national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush?s presidency.

[ericlp]

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

HOLY SH!T!!!!!!! We just added another zero to the debt clock!


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2...dco/entry4486228.shtml

With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush?s presidency.

It?s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.

On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.727 trillion. The latest number from the Treasury Department shows the national debt now stands at more than $9.849 trillion. That?s a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush?s watch.

The bailout plan now pending in Congress could add hundreds of billions of dollars to the national debt ? though President Bush said this morning he expects that over time, ?much if not all? of the bailout money ?will be paid back.?

But the government is taking no chances. Buried deep in the hundred pages of bailout legislation is a provision that would raise the statutory ceiling on the national debt to $11.315 trillion. It?ll be the 7th time the debt limit has been raised during this administration. In fact it was just two months ago, on July 30, that President Bush signed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act, which contained a provision raising the debt ceiling to $10.615 trillion.


Edit, I predicted that it would reach 10T by the time Bush left office.

Jee, who do we blame this time??? If you can't read this and come to a conclusion for yourself well, you need to go back to school I guess.

 

[jpeyton]

The Bush legacy, in numbers.

The Tax Policy Institute compared Obama's tax plan versus McCain's. McCain's adds an extra $1 trillion to our national debt over the next term.

 

[gevorg]

10T is about 73% of our GDP.

One of the big economies with higher debt is Japan, their debt is 170% of GDP.

For more, see here:
https://www.cia.gov/library/pu...ankorder/2186rank.html

 

[ericlp]

and your point? I could really care less about Japan and the 10 countries below us. Your link is servilely outdated.

 

[babylon5]

The Jones living next door take out loans they can't afford, we should do the same! Why live in our means when everyone else is not?

Problem is, we are taking out more and more loans. Do you really think we will stop at 10T?

 

[Craig234]

IMO any discussion of these issues is pointless without including the massive transfer of wealth to the top, the increasing concentration of wealth, that IMO drives the debt.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: babylon5
The Jones living next door take out loans they can't afford, we should do the same! Why live in our means when everyone else is not?

Problem is, we are taking out more and more loans. Do you really think we will stop at 10T?

Exactly, congress keeps voting yes to increase national debt, it's a sham. I don't know why they even have that limit if they keep voting its increase anyway.

Whole thing is a fvcking mess, but as babylon says, it's not like the leaders are really asked to do better since the average joe in this nation can work for 45 years and retire with a 401k of about $45k. They have no effing clue how to manage finances anyway and simply don't know any better.

 

[Mani]

Apparently Bush still has a 20% or so approval rating. Just curious if anyone here is brave enough to admit to being one of them, and if so, would you be interested in the bridge I have for sale?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Craig234
IMO any discussion of these issues is pointless without including the massive transfer of wealth to the top, the increasing concentration of wealth, that IMO drives the debt.

But but but they are supposed to trickle down prosperity by creating jobs and growth.


If it is not clearly evident to the ordinary citizen that is having their quality of life driven down more and more under Rich Republican Rule that the rich don't trickle down anything other than shit by now the country is clearly and derservedly a lost cause.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Blame Bush all you want, this shit has to be approved by someone.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Blame Bush all you want, this shit has to be approved by someone.

The president doesn't actually spend money. Congress does. It is just ignorance trying to blame it on the president. Oh well, I guess it really doesn't matter because stupid people will be stupid people. *sigh*

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Blame Bush all you want, this shit has to be approved by someone.

The president doesn't actually spend money. Congress does. It is just ignorance trying to blame it on the president. Oh well, I guess it really doesn't matter because stupid people will be stupid people. *sigh*

Yeah he just has to OK it.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Blame Bush all you want, this shit has to be approved by someone.

The president doesn't actually spend money. Congress does. It is just ignorance trying to blame it on the president. Oh well, I guess it really doesn't matter because stupid people will be stupid people. *sigh*

No, you are displaying a view of the provess at the level of grade school textbooks, while in the real world, the president has an enormous impact on the budget. He in fact writes the draft the Congress starts with, and you can see, if you were to look, that the president does in fact have a huge impact on the spending priorities. That's why he can talk about wanting to spend on this and cut that in his state of the union, because while he doesn't dictate, his policies are going to have a good chance to get passed, subject to negotiation.

 

[Jaskalas]

We have spent OVER 2 trillion so far in 2008 just on the economy alone, which is NOT included in the budget or your idea of the debt. Therefore, this number is BS, the real number is at least a couple trillion higher.

 

[techs]

So, basically, we could have had universal health care, free college educations for all, rebuilt our infrastructure, cured cancer, put a man on Mars, built the Super Conducting Super Collider, ended hunger, given everyone access to 100 MBit internet, developed a 100 mpg car that runs on air, and bought everyone in America a Quad Core computer.
And still have 50 percent left over.

And all we bought was this lousy economy?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Increases In Federal Debt By Year

2008 - - $1.06 Trillion
2007 - - $556 Billion
2006 - - $574 Billion
2005 - - $554 Billion
2004 - - $596 Billion
2003 - - $555 Billion
2002 - - $421 Billion
2001 - - $133 Billion
2000 - - $18 Billion


The Federal Debt to the Penny from the US Treasury Department

$10,148,749,284,084.15

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: ericlp

On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.727 trillion. The latest number from the Treasury Department shows the national debt now stands at more than $9.849 trillion. That?s a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush?s watch.

Its also very important to note that Clinton left him with a balanced budget for several years in a row. So, its not like Bush took a bad budget shortfall and made it worse. He took a balanced budget and made it the worse in history.

On hte bright side, Clinton DID take a record (at that time record) deficit and turn it into a surplus... so it can be done. It will take several years, but it can be done.

 

[Jhhnn]

The OP is slightly misleading. While debt increases under GWB are the largest in raw dollars, increases under that much revered semi-mythical icon of the Right, RR, were much larger on the basis of percentages... GHWB followed though in that same direction...

Anybody notice a pattern?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The OP is slightly misleading. While debt increases under GWB are the largest in raw dollars, increases under that much revered semi-mythical icon of the Right, RR, were much larger on the basis of percentages... GHWB followed though in that same direction...

Anybody notice a pattern?

Here is your pattern. Funny, sad, and true.

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/...ns-fiscal-conservative

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Increases In Federal Debt By Year

2008 - - $1.06 Trillion
2007 - - $556 Billion
2006 - - $574 Billion
2005 - - $554 Billion
2004 - - $596 Billion
2003 - - $555 Billion
2002 - - $421 Billion
2001 - - $133 Billion
2000 - - $18 Billion


The Federal Debt to the Penny from the US Treasury Department

$10,148,749,284,084.15

Interesting to note that they added 203 billion since 9/29/03 (last day under 10 trillion) and I can't imagine that this has anything to do with the bailout, since the last number is for Oct. 2nd and the bailout hadn't passed yet. Looks like they were sandbagging a few hundred billion until the next fiscal year to let the next administration look worse. *shrugs*

 

[Demo24]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The Bush legacy, in numbers.

The Tax Policy Institute compared Obama's tax plan versus McCain's. McCain's adds an extra $1 trillion to our national debt over the next term.

Got a link for that?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: DEMO24

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The Bush legacy, in numbers.

The Tax Policy Institute compared Obama's tax plan versus McCain's. McCain's adds an extra $1 trillion to our national debt over the next term.

Got a link for that?

I'll try to dig it up. Obama's plan was to add $3 Trillion while McCain's was to add $4 trillion. I don't see how either is valid right now as we'er going to be adding that much in the first couple of years at this pace (note: The projections were over a 10 year span).

Click me!

Although both candidates have at times stressed fiscal responsibility, their specific non-health tax proposals would reduce tax revenues by an estimated $4.2 trillion (McCain) and $2.8 trillion (Obama) over the next 10 years. Both candidates argue that their proposals should be scored against a ?current policy? baseline instead of current law. Such a baseline assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts would be extended and the AMT patch made permanent. Against current policy, Senator Obama?s proposals would raise $800 billion and Senator McCain?s proposals lose $600 billion.

 

[Deeko]

As much as I do hate GWB, it's always going to be "the biggest ever" due to inflation. You have to look at percentages.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Deeko
As much as I do hate GWB, it's always going to be "the biggest ever" due to inflation. You have to look at percentages.

Compare Clinton's to previous (in terms of real or percentage or dollars or in terms of GDP) and see who comes out on top in this.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Increases In Federal Debt By Year

2008 - - $1.06 Trillion
2007 - - $556 Billion
2006 - - $574 Billion
2005 - - $554 Billion
2004 - - $596 Billion
2003 - - $555 Billion
2002 - - $421 Billion
2001 - - $133 Billion
2000 - - $18 Billion


The Federal Debt to the Penny from the US Treasury Department

$10,148,749,284,084.15

Interesting to note that they added 203 billion since 9/29/03 (last day under 10 trillion) and I can't imagine that this has anything to do with the bailout, since the last number is for Oct. 2nd and the bailout hadn't passed yet. Looks like they were sandbagging a few hundred billion until the next fiscal year to let the next administration look worse. *shrugs*

Since FY 2003 or so it appears that they intentionally 'kick' tens of billions of dollars worth of debt/deficit into the next fiscal year to fluff up the prior year budget numbers. It started with around $35 billion a year and as you have noted, it now involves kicking hundreds of billions of dollars of debt into the next fiscal year.

I guess Voodoo Accounting now goes hand and hand with Voodoo Economics. The only conclusion I can draw is that the intention is to permanently 'break' the Federal gov't. Gross interest paid on the Federal debt for FY 2008 was originally projected at $459 billion - rising to over $600 billion in interest a year by FY 2013. Those projections are now woefully low and deficient.

Since the imposition of trickle-down supply-side ""Voodoo Economics"" the Federal gov't has paid over $8 trillion dollars in interest on the Federal debt...

Historical Tables, Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2009 (pdf) pg 73