NASCAR banning confederate flag at all events and properties

[zzyzxroad]

Just reading the forum and Everybody is banning something and renaming other things and taking movies off the channels. Voicing my opinion just like you.

There is the added bonus that it annoys you.

It doesn't annoy me. You just seem to be incapable of staying on a topic. Is that intentional? Do you even realize you have that tendency?

 

[HomerJS]

It doesn't annoy me. You just seem to be incapable of staying on a topic. Is that intentional? Do you even realize you have that tendency?

He also voices his opinion which everyone can do but when challenged he is incapable or unwilling to defend that opinion.

 

[Vic]

It doesn't annoy me. You just seem to be incapable of staying on a topic. Is that intentional? Do you even realize you have that tendency?

He's desperately trying to defend something while appearing not to. So he acts like he doesn't care while at the same time actively intervening in the discussion.

 

[Stokely]

If we are getting rid of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben, can we take a look at the "Redskins"? Is there a more racist name in the history of sports? Might as well go with the Chicago Darkies and San Francisco Slant-eyed Chinks. I root for those guys to lose solely on the basis of their name.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

As I understand it the Confederate flag that stereotypically gets flown from the back of a pickup truck or sown onto a denim jacket is the battle flag of the republic?

How long was the battle flag used in its original form?

The flag that is displayed today never officially represented the Confederate States Of America.

A version of it was the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and other versions later appeared incorporated into the official CSA flags. I think one version was used by their Navy also.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Lest we not forget, NASCAR evolved out of races between rum runners and moonshiners, so the entire organization is based on hillbilly rednecks breaking numerous laws.

 

[nakedfrog]

If we are getting rid of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben, can we take a look at the "Redskins"? Is there a more racist name in the history of sports? Might as well go with the Chicago Darkies and San Francisco Slant-eyed Chinks. I root for those guys to lose solely on the basis of their name.

I seem to recall there being an attempt at that a few years ago.

 

[hal2kilo]

If we are getting rid of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben, can we take a look at the "Redskins"? Is there a more racist name in the history of sports? Might as well go with the Chicago Darkies and San Francisco Slant-eyed Chinks. I root for those guys to lose solely on the basis of their name.

Braves, Indians, Warriors, I really don't have a problem with, although I know there are people who have problem with Indian as it is a bastardization/mischaracterization. Redskins is just too far. I know they drag out a few Native Americans that say they have no problem, but we can find those kind of people in any race.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Nascar doesn't matter either. I've never been a fan of flying the Battle Flag.

Just for the sake of clarity.

So you would be OK burning the city of Charleston SC?

Yes, the whole city geek, that's what I said. LoL....how did you even come up with that?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

In June 2014, the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board (TTAB) voted to cancel the six trademarks held by the team in a two to one decision that held that the term "redskins" is disparaging to a "substantial composite of Native Americans".[118][119] In a separate case (Matal v. Tam) an Asian-American rock band, "The Slants" appealed the denial of a trademark for their name.[120] In June 2017, the Supreme Court of the United States came to a unanimous decision in favor of Tam, with the majority opinion stating "the disparagement clause violates the First Amendment's Free Speech Clause. Contrary to the Government's contention, trademarks are private, not government speech."[121] Both the Native American petitioners and the Justice Department have withdrawn from any further litigation now that the Supreme Court has rendered the legal issue moot, clearing the way for the restoration of the beloved patriot's trademarks.

Washington Commanders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stokely]

Braves, Indians, Warriors, I really don't have a problem with, although I know there are people who have problem with Indian as it is a bastardization/mischaracterization. Redskins is just too far. I know they drag out a few Native Americans that say they have no problem, but we can find those kind of people in any race.

Yeah, those (to me at least) are very different. A "brave" is a role within a tribe, same as a "warrior" or "chief". The R-word (even the forum is changing it when I first submitted, it knows!) is not, it's separating out a whole group of people purely by skin color. As racist as the day is long.

You are right, there are always people who say no big deal if they get called a beloved patriot, beloved patriot, mick, wop, dago, darkie or whatever is big these days! I'm out of touch on the latest craze in racist descriptions. (Those "beloved patriot"s there are the forum changing what I typed.)

 

[hal2kilo]

Yeah, those (to me at least) are very different. A "brave" is a role within a tribe, same as a "warrior" or "chief". The R-word (even the forum is changing it when I first submitted, it knows!) is not, it's separating out a whole group of people purely by skin color. As racist as the day is long.

You are right, there are always people who say no big deal if they get called a beloved patriot, beloved patriot, mick, wop, dago, darkie or whatever is big these days! I'm out of touch on the latest craze in racist descriptions. (Those "beloved patriot"s there are the forum changing what I typed.)

I grew up in Arlington, VA as a Redskins fan, but have since moved to the Northwest which I now consider home and am a Sea Hawks fan. I don't even bring the subject up with my brother when I visit back home.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, Charleston, SC was not burned by the savage known a Sherman.

Sherman was a great man, a true American hero. Probably the best thing that ever happened to the south, really.

 

[brycejones]

Sherman was a great man, a true American hero. Probably the best thing that ever happened to the south, really.

Some people are still pissed over the War of Northern Aggression.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Sherman was a great man, a true American hero. Probably the best thing that ever happened to the south, really.

Then I guess you think quite highly of John Chivington and William Calley?

 

[woolfe9998]

Then I guess you think quite highly of John Chivington and William Calley?

I don't agree with Zinfamous that Sherman was a hero, or this statement either.

Loss of civilian life was minimal in Sherman's march. It was mainly aimed at destruction of property.

Sherman's "total war" approach is not dissimilar to our calculus in dropping a-bombs (and massive quantities of conventional bombs) on Japan to end WWII. The idea, right or wrong, is that there would have been more death in a prolonged war if the enemy continued to fight.

Sherman believed that the south would fight on, in pockets, possibly for years. He felt what was needed was to break their will by destroying their production and economy, and even their homes. He wanted them to lose the will to fight. Notably, when confederate armies surrendered, he gave them very lenient terms which in fact Grant modified to make them harsher. Because surrender is what Sherman wanted.

Since WWII, where total war was practiced by all major powers, the world has taken a look at this strategy and largely rejected it as immoral.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Sherman believed that the south would fight on, in pockets, possibly for years. He felt what was needed was to break their will by destroying their production and economy, and even their homes. He wanted them to lose the will to fight. Notably, when confederate armies surrendered, he gave them very lenient terms which in fact Grant modified to make them harsher. Because surrender is what Sherman wanted.

And indeed they still are, so he may not have been wrong in his evaluation, but he failed.

 

[woolfe9998]

And indeed they still are, so he may not have been wrong in his evaluation, but he failed.

Yeah, probably right. He was a military guy, whose job was to win, an end, a war. He probably didn't consider the long term societal consequences of what he was doing.

 

[zinfamous]

Then I guess you think quite highly of John Chivington and William Calley?

What Calley did was in no way comparable to Sherman's overall War Strategy, which was aimed at Confederate supply and support. Shit ass things happen in war, they always do, but Sherman did not target women and children specifically and civilians generally. Obviously, people are still going to die because of it--but it's war.

 

[zinfamous]

And indeed they still are, so he may not have been wrong in his evaluation, but he failed.

I think what really failed the South in the aftermath was the racist Southerner Johnson taking over Lincoln's reconstruction strategy and allowing terror to reign supreme against the newly-freed slaves and their families. Allowing Confederate loyalists to run around unpunished and create an entirely new centralized power system of terrorists that would continue to rule the South ...until this fucking day, really.

Even so, it's possible that Lincoln's belief that the South needs to be brought back into the fold easily, without vengeance and acceptance, was generally misguided.

Sherman probably had it right. That flag still exists, so we know with certainty that he was more correct about what needed be done than anyone else in the North.

This, from a guy educated in the south that learned about these things from an utter nonsense perspective about the glorious pain and struggle of the beautiful south and the tragic loss of god-given lifestyle. etc etc.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Ya' know what'd be really super neato cool?

How 'bout if delivery companies like UPS and FedEx refused to go on properties with the orange rag displayed? Add in companies like Propane fuel or heating oil deliveries.

 

[pcgeek11]

Yes, the whole city geek, that's what I said. LoL....how did you even come up with that?

Well most of Charleston downtown is made up of Antebellum Era Buildings.

So you would be in favor of selectively burning innocent peoples property?

 

[pcgeek11]

Sherman was a great man, a true American hero. Probably the best thing that ever happened to the south, really.

Like when he applied the same strategy to the Native Americans:

HISTORY

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After the Civil War, Sherman was given command of the Military Division of the Mississippi and tasked with pacifying the Plains Indians during the building of the transcontinental railroad. Sherman took to the job with characteristic vigor, orchestrating the relocation of the tribes and warning their chiefs, “you cannot stop the locomotive any more than you can stop the sun or the moon, and you must submit.” To help break the natives’ spirit, Sherman took a page from his Civil War playbook and set his sights on destroying one of their primary resources: the buffalo. Beginning in the late 1860s, he organized the killing of some 5 million bison in an effort to drive the creatures to the brink of extinction. Sherman continued his harsh policies after becoming commanding general of the army in 1869, and by the 1870s, he had helped force most of the Plains peoples onto reservations.



Sherman had no shame. Here are some of his own words that illustrate his maniacal lust for blood. In a letter to his wife he said of the southern secessionists: “why death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better . . . . Until we can repopulate Georgia, it is useless to occupy it, but the utter destruction of its roads, houses, and PEOPLE will cripple their military resources"

In an order to one of his generals, Thomas Ewing (Order #11) Sherman said “There is a class of people (in the South), men women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order.”

He was a real hero.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well most of Charleston downtown is made up of Antebellum Era Buildings.

So you would be in favor of selectively burning innocent peoples property?

The context was clear geek. I doubt most of the buildings in downtown charleston are Antebellum mansions erected by plantation owners and kept ariu d as an FU to the Union and minorities. Yawn worthy goal post moving.

 

[pcgeek11]

The context was clear geek. I doubt most of the buildings in downtown charleston are Antebellum mansions erected by plantation owners and kept ariu d as an FU to the Union and minorities. Yawn worthy goal post moving.

You are the one moving the goal post.

You said you wouldn't mind burning all of the Antebellum Mansions in SC.

Keep backing up...