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nasa hacked, disturbing video of war in IRAQ posted!

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43st

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
3,197
0
0
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
You're all retarded. End of story. It's a propaganda video - and it apparently did it's job by causing unrest in most people that saw it.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
Of course you don't. You're too wrapped up in idealism to accept reality.

These men just killed a man who was trying to kill them. And you expect them to NOT be happy about that.


They are not undertakers. They are not politicians stroking your idealism. They are soldiers with a job to do.

Finally, it is cheering soldiers like that who are the sole reason you are free to speak your mind and bash them without fear of retribution.
 

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
6,210
0
0
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
thera, as much as your viewpoint is being bashed and it seems that majority of the people in this thread are against it, know that there's at least one person on your side!!
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
This is the saddest thing I've ever seen! How come they only shot ONE Iraqi? If I had to go to Iraq, I'd be going in Terminator style, killing anything that moves. And yeah, I'd be celebrating afterwards. :)
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
 

43st

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
3,197
0
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,647
19
81
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.

thera, you do understand that the video you viewed was edited don't you?
 

Kroze

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
4,052
1
0
Originally posted by: MindStorm
I didn't find the killing disturbing. I found the high these marines get after killing that's disturbing. These are what, 20 year olds? Still very much kids in many aspect. It's one thing to be proud to go to war for your country, it's quite another to say on TV that killing is fun and it's something they want to do again. That's sick.

Well we are trained killers. You don't expect us Marines to feel down everytime we kill someone. If we do that, we wouldn't be Marines and there wouldn't be a United States.
 

Kroze

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
4,052
1
0
Oh yea, as for you deer hunters. Now is a great time to join the military. See what you could have done? It's a lot better than shooting an animal that poses no threat. And you don't even need a license! I mean, what's the point of hidding for hours looking for a defenseless animal so you can kill for pleasure when you can do it to other humans and praised for it. Not only that, you'll get an adrenaline rush like no deers can give you. The thought of being shot back and possibly kill will motivate you!
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..

I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers...
...based on my perception of a highly edited propaganda tape. lol!


How should soldiers be trained to react when they neutralize a target...curse their existance and beat themselves? Maybe we oughta use those 'training devices' for animals on our soldiers. Except the soldier gets an electrical jolt every time he does something right or wrong.
 

misle

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
3,371
0
76
Maybe I missed it when I skimmed over this thread, but how does hacking Nasa.gov get you a CNN report?
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,586
4
81
that was it?

that wasnt disturbing. thats about what i expect of moron grunts my age who have the highlight of their day as the ability to kill someone and have it caught on video, its a war...jesus, i thought id see a 9 year old run over by a tank and THEN have the guys cheering, that would distrub me. not a video of someone we dont know (who could be a militant, an iraqi soldier out of uniform, an asshat after a bad day or someone totally innocent of anything) getting shot

bah, its war, dont say its disturbing if its something i could see on LOCAL news at one time or another

 
May 31, 2001
15,326
1
0
Originally posted by: Kroze
Oh yea, as for you deer hunters. Now is a great time to join the military. See what you could have done? It's a lot better than shooting an animal that poses no threat. And you don't even need a license! I mean, what's the point of hidding for hours looking for a defenseless animal so you can kill for pleasure when you can do it to other humans and praised for it. Not only that, you'll get an adrenaline rush like no deers can give you. The thought of being shot back and possibly kill will motivate you!
How DO you type so well with your head lodged in your colon like that?
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,124
72
91
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.
Didn't the unedited clip show the cheering and then in the aftermath, the soliders expressing remorse over their enthusiasm? Its unfortunate that some people will view this clip and use it as ammunition to bash the US, the government, the military, and so-on.

IMO its an understandable reaction- you've just killed someone who had fired upon you on the battlefield- the euphoria of surviving a life and death situation is not a surprise. I am glad to see that once the adrenaline had worn off, the soliders did come to their senses in a respect.

And the person comparing this to the systematic brutality by the Japanese against the Korean and Chinese people do a disservice to those people. Millions of people were butchered, raped, and brutalized by Japanese soliders. War is terrible in itself, but that was an evil beyond war.

 
May 31, 2001
15,326
1
0
Originally posted by: dawheat
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.
Didn't the unedited clip show the cheering and then in the aftermath, the soliders expressing remorse over their enthusiasm? Its unfortunate that some people will view this clip and use it as ammunition to bash the US, the government, the military, and so-on.

IMO its an understandable reaction- you've just killed someone who had fired upon you on the battlefield- the euphoria of surviving a life and death situation is not a surprise. I am glad to see that once the adrenaline had worn off, the soliders did come to their senses in a respect.

And the person comparing this to the systematic brutality by the Japanese against the Korean and Chinese people do a disservice to those people. Millions of people were butchered, raped, and brutalized by Japanese soliders. War is terrible in itself, but that was an evil beyond war.
The people whining about the clip and calling it a "true representation" would probably soil themselves if they had to read something like The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Originally posted by: dawheat
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.
Didn't the unedited clip show the cheering and then in the aftermath, the soliders expressing remorse over their enthusiasm? Its unfortunate that some people will view this clip and use it as ammunition to bash the US, the government, the military, and so-on.

IMO its an understandable reaction- you've just killed someone who had fired upon you on the battlefield- the euphoria of surviving a life and death situation is not a surprise. I am glad to see that once the adrenaline had worn off, the soliders did come to their senses in a respect.

And the person comparing this to the systematic brutality by the Japanese against the Korean and Chinese people do a disservice to those people. Millions of people were butchered, raped, and brutalized by Japanese soliders. War is terrible in itself, but that was an evil beyond war.
The people whining about the clip and calling it a "true representation" would probably soil themselves if they had to read something like The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II.
No, they would not. For them it is not about doing what is right, nor about real cruelty, nor even about "lack of military professionalism"; it's all about portraying anything and everything American in a negative light.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
1
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Originally posted by: dawheat
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.
Didn't the unedited clip show the cheering and then in the aftermath, the soliders expressing remorse over their enthusiasm? Its unfortunate that some people will view this clip and use it as ammunition to bash the US, the government, the military, and so-on.

IMO its an understandable reaction- you've just killed someone who had fired upon you on the battlefield- the euphoria of surviving a life and death situation is not a surprise. I am glad to see that once the adrenaline had worn off, the soliders did come to their senses in a respect.

And the person comparing this to the systematic brutality by the Japanese against the Korean and Chinese people do a disservice to those people. Millions of people were butchered, raped, and brutalized by Japanese soliders. War is terrible in itself, but that was an evil beyond war.
The people whining about the clip and calling it a "true representation" would probably soil themselves if they had to read something like The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II.
No, they would not. For them it is not about doing what is right, nor about real cruelty, nor even about "lack of military professionalism"; it's all about portraying anything and everything American in a negative light.
Well, there's that too. :p
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve
Originally posted by: dawheat
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Thera
Cheering victory is different than cheering an individuals death. If you're cheering the death of another human being then you're reacting on a emotional level. One would think that the world's only super power could behaive in more dignified manner. I don't think it's to much to expect a little professionalism from our military.

It's amazing that for all our advancements we still act like primates in the face of death, regardless of what side we're on. I see no difference between dancing Iraqies and Yeehaa-ing US soldiers.
You're gauging the professionalism of the entire US military based only on your perception of a highly edited propaganda tape? Sigh.. People with political agendas will see what they want to see, I guess..
I'm gauging the professionalism of one small group of soldiers. I'm very proud of the men and women of our military as a whole. I'm simply pointing out that one act isn't something to be proud of as a culture.

Good and bad things happen to all sorts of people in the world. To judge an entire people on the dispicable acts of the few is what has caused the majority of problems in this world.
Didn't the unedited clip show the cheering and then in the aftermath, the soliders expressing remorse over their enthusiasm? Its unfortunate that some people will view this clip and use it as ammunition to bash the US, the government, the military, and so-on.

IMO its an understandable reaction- you've just killed someone who had fired upon you on the battlefield- the euphoria of surviving a life and death situation is not a surprise. I am glad to see that once the adrenaline had worn off, the soliders did come to their senses in a respect.

And the person comparing this to the systematic brutality by the Japanese against the Korean and Chinese people do a disservice to those people. Millions of people were butchered, raped, and brutalized by Japanese soliders. War is terrible in itself, but that was an evil beyond war.
The people whining about the clip and calling it a "true representation" would probably soil themselves if they had to read something like The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II.
No, they would not. For them it is not about doing what is right, nor about real cruelty, nor even about "lack of military professionalism"; it's all about portraying anything and everything American in a negative light.
Give this man a cookie!
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Again, you are discounting what I am saying and are calling what happened in this video a crime because you don't like the emotion displayed by the participating Marines. I am telling you, that in the heat of battle, in war, humans become unhuman. Emotions displayed are not emotions intended. I can pull extracts from training documents that will explain this incident to you clearly. Do some research on it and you'll have a different perspective of what you saw on this video. I didn't see a crime and I'm trained to make that judgement.
What is interesting is the implicit suggestion by some that soldiers should be trained (indoctrinated) to perceive themselves and what they do as some kind of abomination. That when a soldier kills in war, he should promptly heap disdain upon himself for what he's done. To view the discharge of his duty as something worthy of contempt.

Imagine if we adopted this rather bizarre motivational technique to train people for other occupations...

"You successfully operated on that man's heart without complications? You should be ashamed of yourself! And you call yourself a doctor?"


"You have the best safety record among all school bus drivers in the district. What an idiot you are!"


"As for the outstanding job you did identifying and apprehending the two violent felons who escaped from prison last week, I will personally see that you are fired for it."

----------------------

"How did you feel after pulling those two children from the burning car and saving their lives?"

"I felt like a low life. I wanted to commit suicide."

"Good! Serves you right."


Keep in mind that none of your examples deal with KILLING someone intentionally. You are trying to compare the argument that the soldiers, just as bus drivers and surgeons who perform their job and save lives, shouldn't feel guilty by doing their job right. That soldiers should be proud that they saved lives or protected life, just as the surgeon and bus drivers. These (surgeons and bus drivers) people never killed intentionally to save lives, there is a huge difference!

Furthermore, I don't think that soldiers are "trained" to react a certain way to death by our military, one explanation is probably the nature of American culture that instills the guilt... our culture regards human life as so precious whereas others do not (ex. Palestinians). Americans are taught from birth by our parents (and/or by the major religions as well) that killing is wrong and we should be ashamed. So now the clash between right and wrong and 2 different worlds (civilian and military) has manifested itself. Overall, I think trying to explain the single greatest cause of the guilt is a factor of so many variables that realistically it's impossible to pinpoint, people will react differently to killing a person.

To say a soldier shouldn't be ashamed of killing is wrong and they shouldn't be critisized because of it; it's in their (and most Americans') nature and taught as a child growing up.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
Originally posted by: Amused
An injured but still armed Iraqi who had just attacked them. What did you want them to do? Walk up to him and disarm him???

Nice video editing on the hacker's end to make our soldiers look like murderers, but anyone with half a brain can see what's going on.
That is alot of optimism on your behalf. Let's face it there are more stupid gullible people out there than intelligent ones or else P&N would be devoid of alot of posters
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Originally posted by: zimu
i used the word "disturbing" cause there's this injured iraqi guy, who's basically sitting out there probably bleeding to death. I mean at the risk of sounding like some 70's freedom fighter smoking pot, i think the HUMANE thing to do here was at least take him into custody, make him a POW. Not shoot him down (and yes, the marine's aim was pretty damn pathetic...).

I mean yes, he's trying to kill you. He's following orders. so are you, sure, to prevent their efforts using necessary force. NECESSARY. not EXTREME. like wtf, just kill him? he's already down, he's practically dying, don't just kill him! he's a human being!

<ends smoking pot here>
Your arugement would be valid if the Marines were really cops. But they are not. They are Marines/soldiers, they are in a war zone the rules you are speaking of are what police use, not soldiers.

That dude they shot knew the risk he was taking. Fu*kem kill them all, the world would be a better place.

 

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
6,210
0
0
all of this reminds me, who watched last samurai?

IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED DON'T READ FURTHER





did anyone feel bad in that final scene where the last few samurai charge and all get machine gunned down? did that make you feel anything at all? for me i had this intense hatred for guns at that point. cause in that scene you just feel wow, all that honor, all that courage, that knowing they'll die but not being scared of it, destroyed because of some automated machine that requires so much less in terms of guts to operate. its nearly mechanic to kill people that way, its not the same as digging a sword into their hearts and watching life pass out of their eyes
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
Keep in mind that none of your examples deal with KILLING someone intentionally. You are trying to compare the argument that the soldiers, just as bus drivers and surgeons who perform their job and save lives, shouldn't feel guilty by doing their job right. That soldiers should be proud that they saved lives or protected life, just as the surgeon and bus drivers. These (surgeons and bus drivers) people never killed intentionally to save lives, there is a huge difference!
There is absolutely no difference. Whatever the occupation is, whatever the responsibilities demanded of it, and intended to be accomplished by it, has no bearing at all on how people should be expected to feel about what they do. If the occupation is to kill the enemy in battle, and please don't pretend we are in Tu-Tu wearing fairy land here - killing in battle is what we ask of soldiers - then by God they not only should be good at what they do, but when they discharge their duties as trained, they should not be expected or encouraged to feel contempt for themselves.

My point was that, you don't build an effective fighting force with high morale by teaching soldiers to heap disdain upon themselves, no more than you would expect to produce highly competent doctors by teaching them that they should heap disdain upon themselves. Who would enter such an occupation?

We train and motivate soldiers to give their best effort so they can become very proficient in what they do much in the same way sports teams are trained and motivated to give their best effort so they can become very proficient in what they do. The principle is the same, no matter the 'goal'.
 

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