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nasa hacked, disturbing video of war in IRAQ posted!

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Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
Originally posted by: Amorphus
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
If you want to see disturbing watch "The Killing Fields" about Polpot.
A mass murder that would NOT have happened had the liberal US politicians not insisted we stop supporting the Cambodian government after the US pull-out from Vietnam in 1975. As soon as all funding was stopped, the Khmrir Rouge overthrew the Cambodian government and promptly slaughtered 2 million people. (A vast number for such a small country)

Another fine example of the politics of appeasement and the liberal refusal to believe that communism is inherently evil.
Funny how everything can be made to be the fault of the US. The Khmer Rouge themselves bear the responsibility for the deaths of those millions in Cambodia, not the US.
you have a point there, Astaroth, but can you at least acknowledge that the U.S. was keeping the Khmer Rouge in check? we knew they were dangerous, but the politicians decided to pull out.

its like handcuffing a gangster with a gun, and then letting him out on the street and expecting nothing to happen. and if that happened, the fault and blame would be put completely on the shoulders of the police.
I won't deny that the US, for its own political reasons, dropped the ball (I don't know enough about the specific politics of the time to comment effectively there), but ultimately, the fault that the Khmer Rouge killed so many lies with the Khmer Rouge themselves. No one forced them, they exercised free will, to horrific result. Same thing with the gangster analogy. If you place fault and blame completely on the shoulders of the police, then you remove fault and blame from the actual gangster who exercised free will and chose to kill someone.

If YOU kill someone, YOU are responsible. Not the police, not the US government..
 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
Oh yeah, one more thing Mindstorm. Lest you not forget that in Vietnam, it was common practice for the VC to play off our "good guy image" by strapping their own innocent women and children with bombs, hoping our Marines and Soldiers would try to disarm the bomb and save the woman or child. Also, throughout history, it has not been uncommon for our enemy to kill their own women and children and leave the corpses in plain view of our military personnel to invoke anger, rage, fear, etc. So while you condemn one small group of admittedly fvcked up US Marines, don't you ever forget what our enemy has done on the field of battle. If the VC had come across an American village of women and children under the same circumstances, I can damn well guarantee that a higher percentage of their soldiers would have committed the same act against Americans than our Marines and Soldiers would have.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Amused
An injured but still armed Iraqi who had just attacked them. What did you want them to do? Walk up to him and disarm him???

Nice video editing on the hacker's end to make our soldiers look like murderers, but anyone with half a brain can see what's going on.
No, anyone with half a brain won't be blinded by patriotism that they will ignore any horrendous actions their country have committed. I remember a lengthy thread criticizing the Japanese for not admitting any fault on its quest for imperialism (they were wickedly cruel, that's why the Chinese and Korean are still very bitter), you remind me of the Japanese.
Excuse me, but who the fsck are you to insist that soldiers --who are already risking their lives in an area surrounded by people trying to kill them-- should risk their lives even further by leaving or helping an injured BUT STILL ARMED enemy attacker on the ground?

May I ask what your military experience is? I have 4 years in the Army infantry. If an injured enemy refuses to disarm, you neutralize him. You do NOT let him lie there posing a risk to you and your fellow troops. Because as long as he is alive and armed, he can shoot you. This isn't the wild west, it's real life. You don't take the risk and see who can draw and/or fire their weapons the fastest, and ther is no such thing as a "sporting chance." It is kill or be killed. And the only way to avoid being killed by our troops once injured is to DISARM completely.

So you can stick your "blinded by patriotism" bullsh!t right back up the ignorant sh!t hole you pulled it out of.
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0
Originally posted by: Rogue


Stress and adrenaline make you do very unhuman things sometime, especially in combat. The Marine that pulled the trigger will most likely live the rest of his life with some degree of guilt or question as to whether or not he had to do what he did.
..
And how dare any of you, having never been put in this situation condemn or question his ability to shoot or judge his comments afterward.

Mindstorm,

Just in case you think you're gonna jump all over me for anything I've said up here, don't even try. My Lai was a singular incident in American history that was a horrible attrocity. People have paid dearly for what they've done in Vietnam, some will never pay enough. Don't make the mistake of comparing those Marines with every other Marine/Soldier that came after them. And don't you dare forget the attrocities that these Iraqi soldiers have committed to their own people, much less the enemy they fight against.
First, the comment about judging that marine who said he enjoyed killing. Do you accept it as a valid excuse for those homicidal killers to do what they did because of a bad childhood? Some of them have been abused and molested by their fathers, and they grow up with a twisted, demented point of view on life. But is that any reason to pardon their crimes? Are you going to jump in and defend them from judgement and condemnation if one of them had just killed your neighbor's kid? I doubt it. Granted, I haven't fought in a war. I'm not judging that soldier for killing the person who had just tried to kill him - you're missing my point entirely. What I'm saying, now spelling it out for you, is that there is something seriously wrong and sick when I hear someone who is representing the US proudly talks about taking pleasure in killing and wanting to do it again on TV.

As for your second comment, My Lai wasn't a singular incident. It was only a few years back when a politician was under media scrutiny when a fellow soldier finally broke down and admitted that his platoon slaughtered civilians. And that's only what has been surfaced; there are far more stories kept secret to the people. And those did such things should feel guilt. You make it sound like just because they're feeling guilty, that it's enough punishment. Let's apply your logic to our current criminal system. I'm sure families of victims would be satisfied to hear that criminals' conscience kicked in and that's enough of a punishment for them.

Third comment about Iraqi soldiers. I don't understand the point in diverting blame. This thread is about US soldiers committing atrocities. Are you hoping to distract the point by bringing in the Iraqi soldiers? Or to make US soldiers look better by making the comparison? It's clear cut that Iraqi soldiers did horrible things to their people - no one is arguing otherwise. But people here are still waving their flags and ignoring horrible, but preventable things that could be happening in Iraq. I want to see the Iraqis live in a democratic and US-friendly government. But I also don't want to see any pointless killing if it could be stopped.
 

Thoreau

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2003
1,441
0
71
Originally posted by: zimu
i used the word "disturbing" cause there's this injured iraqi guy, who's basically sitting out there probably bleeding to death. I mean at the risk of sounding like some 70's freedom fighter smoking pot, i think the HUMANE thing to do here was at least take him into custody, make him a POW. Not shoot him down (and yes, the marine's aim was pretty damn pathetic...).

I mean yes, he's trying to kill you. He's following orders. so are you, sure, to prevent their efforts using necessary force. NECESSARY. not EXTREME. like wtf, just kill him? he's already down, he's practically dying, don't just kill him! he's a human being!

<ends smoking pot here>
There is a tall bridge somewhere with your name on it.
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Amused
An injured but still armed Iraqi who had just attacked them. What did you want them to do? Walk up to him and disarm him???

Nice video editing on the hacker's end to make our soldiers look like murderers, but anyone with half a brain can see what's going on.
No, anyone with half a brain won't be blinded by patriotism that they will ignore any horrendous actions their country have committed. I remember a lengthy thread criticizing the Japanese for not admitting any fault on its quest for imperialism (they were wickedly cruel, that's why the Chinese and Korean are still very bitter), you remind me of the Japanese.
Excuse me, but who the fsck are you to insist that soldiers --who are already risking their lives in an area surrounded by people trying to kill them-- should risk their lives even further by leaving or helping an injured BUT STILL ARMED enemy attacker on the ground?

May I ask what your military experience is? I have 4 years in the Army infantry. If an injured enemy refuses to disarm, you neutralize him. You do NOT let him lie there posing a risk to you and your fellow troops. Because as long as he is alive and armed, he can shoot you. This isn't the wild west, it's real life. You don't take the risk and see who can draw and/or fire their weapons the fastest, and ther is no such thing as a "sporting chance." It is kill or be killed. And the only way to avoid being killed by our troops once injured is to DISARM completely.

So you can stick your "blinded by patriotism" bullsh!t right back up the ignorant sh!t hole you pulled it out of.
In your 4 yours of infantry, did you somehow learn to abandon reading comprehension? I never said anything about soldiers should risk their lives trying to unarm enemies or even try to help them. I would like you to point to me where you read that. My point was that the soldier who said he enjoyed killing is inhumane and that it's stupid to ignore any wrongdoings by the government. Good job on the jumping to conclusions, soldier.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
First, the comment about judging that marine who said he enjoyed killing. Do you accept it as a valid excuse for those homicidal killers to do what they did because of a bad childhood?
Talk about blind belief.


It's obvious by the tape that it was edited to make him appear to say that. What is obvious is that he felt bad about killing people, but that being battle is a rush. And it is. Not a good rush in the long term, but adrenaline is adrenaline.

There is NO atrocity here whatsoever. This is war, and thankfully our Army will not cave in to pussies like you demanding our troops risk their lives by leaving or attempting to help injured enemy soldiers who refuse to disarm.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Amused
An injured but still armed Iraqi who had just attacked them. What did you want them to do? Walk up to him and disarm him???

Nice video editing on the hacker's end to make our soldiers look like murderers, but anyone with half a brain can see what's going on.
No, anyone with half a brain won't be blinded by patriotism that they will ignore any horrendous actions their country have committed. I remember a lengthy thread criticizing the Japanese for not admitting any fault on its quest for imperialism (they were wickedly cruel, that's why the Chinese and Korean are still very bitter), you remind me of the Japanese.
Excuse me, but who the fsck are you to insist that soldiers --who are already risking their lives in an area surrounded by people trying to kill them-- should risk their lives even further by leaving or helping an injured BUT STILL ARMED enemy attacker on the ground?

May I ask what your military experience is? I have 4 years in the Army infantry. If an injured enemy refuses to disarm, you neutralize him. You do NOT let him lie there posing a risk to you and your fellow troops. Because as long as he is alive and armed, he can shoot you. This isn't the wild west, it's real life. You don't take the risk and see who can draw and/or fire their weapons the fastest, and ther is no such thing as a "sporting chance." It is kill or be killed. And the only way to avoid being killed by our troops once injured is to DISARM completely.

So you can stick your "blinded by patriotism" bullsh!t right back up the ignorant sh!t hole you pulled it out of.
In your 4 yours of infantry, did you somehow learn to abandon reading comprehension? I never said anything about soldiers should risk their lives trying to unarm enemies. I would like you to point to me where you read that. My point was that the soldier who said he enjoyed killing is inhumane. Good job on the jumping to conclusions, soldier.
And, as I pointed out, you are blindly believing a highly edited tape. It's clear that he said he didn't like that fact that people were getting killed. What is not clear is the part that was edited out before he talked about battle being such a rush.

Good job on the blindly believing heavily edited propaganda, peacenik
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
First, the comment about judging that marine who said he enjoyed killing. Do you accept it as a valid excuse for those homicidal killers to do what they did because of a bad childhood?
Talk about blind belief.


It's obvious by the tape that it was edited to make him appear to say that. What is obvious is that he felt bad about killing people, but that being battle is a rush. And it is. Not a good rush in the long term, but adrenaline is adrenaline.

There is NO atrocity here whatsoever. This is war, and thankfully our Army will not cave in to pussies like you demanding our troops risk their lives by leaving or attempting to help injured enemy soldiers who refuse to disarm.
Yup, this confirms you forgot how to read and interpret what you've read. Again, quote me demanding that I want troops to help armed enemy, idiot.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Amused
First, the comment about judging that marine who said he enjoyed killing. Do you accept it as a valid excuse for those homicidal killers to do what they did because of a bad childhood?
Talk about blind belief.


It's obvious by the tape that it was edited to make him appear to say that. What is obvious is that he felt bad about killing people, but that being battle is a rush. And it is. Not a good rush in the long term, but adrenaline is adrenaline.

There is NO atrocity here whatsoever. This is war, and thankfully our Army will not cave in to pussies like you demanding our troops risk their lives by leaving or attempting to help injured enemy soldiers who refuse to disarm.
Yup, this confirms you forgot how to read and interpret what you've read. Again, quote me demanding that I want troops to help armed enemy, idiot.
I said this:

An injured but still armed Iraqi who had just attacked them. What did you want them to do? Walk up to him and disarm him???

Nice video editing on the hacker's end to make our soldiers look like murderers, but anyone with half a brain can see what's going on.
You directly responded with this:

No, anyone with half a brain won't be blinded by patriotism that they will ignore any horrendous actions their country have committed.
The implication is obvious. Nice sidestep, but no one is buying it. Why would you speak of other atrocities when THIS tape and incident is the focus of this thread AND you are responding to my post addressing ONLY the incident in this thread???


 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Rogue


Stress and adrenaline make you do very unhuman things sometime, especially in combat. The Marine that pulled the trigger will most likely live the rest of his life with some degree of guilt or question as to whether or not he had to do what he did.
..
And how dare any of you, having never been put in this situation condemn or question his ability to shoot or judge his comments afterward.

Mindstorm,

Just in case you think you're gonna jump all over me for anything I've said up here, don't even try. My Lai was a singular incident in American history that was a horrible attrocity. People have paid dearly for what they've done in Vietnam, some will never pay enough. Don't make the mistake of comparing those Marines with every other Marine/Soldier that came after them. And don't you dare forget the attrocities that these Iraqi soldiers have committed to their own people, much less the enemy they fight against.
First, the comment about judging that marine who said he enjoyed killing. Do you accept it as a valid excuse for those homicidal killers to do what they did because of a bad childhood? Some of them have been abused and molested by their fathers, and they grow up with a twisted, demented point of view on life. But is that any reason to pardon their crimes? Are you going to jump in and defend them from judgement and condemnation if one of them had just killed your neighbor's kid? I doubt it. Granted, I haven't fought in a war. I'm not judging that soldier for killing the person who had just tried to kill him - you're missing my point entirely. What I'm saying, now spelling it out for you, is that there is something seriously wrong and sick when I hear someone who is representing the US proudly talks about taking pleasure in killing and wanting to do it again on TV.

As for your second comment, My Lai wasn't a singular incident. It was only a few years back when a politician was under media scrutiny when a fellow soldier finally broke down and admitted that his platoon slaughtered civilians. And that's only what has been surfaced; there are far more stories kept secret to the people. And those did such things should feel guilt. You make it sound like just because they're feeling guilty, that it's enough punishment. Let's apply your logic to our current criminal system. I'm sure families of victims would be satisfied to hear that criminals' conscience kicked in and that's enough of a punishment for them.

Third comment about Iraqi soldiers. I don't understand the point in diverting blame. This thread is about US soldiers committing atrocities. Are you hoping to distract the point by bringing in the Iraqi soldiers? Or to make US soldiers look better by making the comparison? It's clear cut that Iraqi soldiers did horrible things to their people - no one is arguing otherwise. But people here are still waving their flags and ignoring horrible, but preventable things that could be happening in Iraq. I want to see the Iraqis live in a democratic and US-friendly government. But I also don't want to see any pointless killing if it could be stopped.
You know, I knew when I wrote what I did that you'd come firing back with some lame "You're trying to deflect blah, blah, blah...."

War is not the same as someone killing a neighbor's child, never will be. Now, if every child in that neighborhood was armed to the teeth and shooting at the killer you speak of, then there's justification if he reacts in a way unnatural to you when gunning down the kid. So it's ironic that you would compare war with outright murder of unarmed people in suburban America somewhere. How assinine does that make you to make such a comparison, especially after accusing me of deflection of the issue.

As I stated, it is not uncommon for people to do these types of things in warfare. You can sit back and look at My Lai and justifty a million times over that what they did was wrong, No one will ever dispute otherwise. However, you may also want to read my other post that followed the one you replied to and think on a different level than you're thinking now.

Here's an exercise for you. Imagine yourself in the scariest moment of your entire life. Now, take that moment and imagine that in addition to that, you're being shot at. Now also imagine that you have a gun and in order to live you HAVE to kill someone. Now, if your scariest moments consists of some polygon alien falling out of a drop ceiling in Half-Life, stop and shut the fvck up now. If you can begin to imagine what I've just laid out in front of you (not the Half-Life part) and your stomach doesn't get tight or your mind doesn't start wandering or you don't get anxious, then you will NEVER understand combat.

Also, for the record, I NEVER said the guys who participated in My Lai have paid enough for what they did. Read back on that and stop taking what I say out of context to suit yourself. I said "People have paid dearly for what they've done in Vietnam" not, "Those Marines from My Lai, boy, they got fvcked big time just for killing a few people in some dumb ass village in Vietnam" as you obviously read it.
 

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
6,210
0
0
what i find most surprising from all of this is the number of people who are like "you think THATS bad, its nothing! compare it to ....."

its pathetic how much this human race has become immune to such horror stories. i mean you see a guy being shot to death, and thats nothing, not because its nothign in itself but rather cause you've seen another guy had his heard chopped off and eaten while its still beating by some guy using his bare hands.

its all because of doom and wolfenstein, i'm telling u!!
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
Originally posted by: tcsenter
It is disturbing, to say the least. That's exactly the reaction the clip is cut and edited to produce. Anyone who thinks there is enough of the situation shown to make a judgment about what occurred is really just the kind of impressionable mushbrain the poster of the video is targeting.
Speaking of which...
I'm not judging that soldier for killing the person who had just tried to kill him - you're missing my point entirely. What I'm saying, now spelling it out for you, is that there is something seriously wrong and sick when I hear someone who is representing the US proudly talks about taking pleasure in killing and wanting to do it again on TV.
Case closed.
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused


You directly responded with this:

No, anyone with half a brain won't be blinded by patriotism that they will ignore any horrendous actions their country have committed.
The implication is obvious. Nice sidestep, but no one is buying it. Why would you speak of other atrocities when THIS tape and incident is the focus of this thread AND you are responding to my post addressing ONLY the incident in this thread???
I asked you to point out where I said US soldiers should be helping armed enemies and you use my quote above as proof of that? Are you playing stupid on purpose to try to confuse or do you really believe I implied that? To clear this up once and for all, no I never said ANYTHING about helping armed enemies, or letting them live when they're holding a gun, or hold a sit-in around Saddam's palace, or whatever else you pull out off your butt and try to pass it off as words coming out of my mouth. My point, bolded and made clear for your dimwitted mind, is that US soldiers have done awful things in the past; to ignore that is to admit you're a dumbass..

That's all I've meant to say and I'm getting tired of side-tracked about My Lai and whatnot (now addressing rogue). Someone asked how I could make a comparison between Japanese killing Chinese women and children and I answered with the My Lai massacre. We both agree US marines were very well in the wrong. But people like amused are more than ready to turn the other way and hold US soldiers to be above their own actions. And to some extent, you seem to be too, by using the psychology of war as an excuse. If I'm wrong in saying you believe that, correct me. As for me, I don't believe in pardoning calley and his troops because of the war mindset. Other soldiers experienced the same thing, but they didn't go rape villagers and cut off tongues, but these specific ones did. Which I brought up as an example of that not all soldiers are innocent boys.
 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
Flat out, you're wrong. If you don't know, I'm a Military Policeman by trade (Army Reserve). I have had much training in these areas and how to handle them as it's part of my job to police the battlefield as much as it is housing areas on military installations. I think you are discounting the effect of combat on the mentality of a human too much. You seem unwilling to allow combat stress as a reason for ANY irrational behavior on the battlefield. If you were to meet this very same Marine today and show him the video where he pulled the trigger and looked amused by it all, he'd probably pull back in disgust and break down. And yes, I am saying that combat stress had SOME impact on My Lai, however, all of the involved parties were wrong for not realizing it. I am by no means using it as an excuse for their actions as you say I am. I am simply adding a perspective based on knowledge that I have and you may not.

My brother went off to war as a highly trained, highly motivated infantryman. He came home from Iraq and is ready to get out of the Army altogether. Do I think that there were many situations where he cheered the death of the enemy? Yes, I do. Does he live with those memories now, yes he does. I went on many calls to his barracks before they deployed to Iraq and they were a rowdy bunch of young men, cock-sure and bold. I visited the same barracks since they came back and it was solemn and business-like, a vast difference from what it was before. I know damn well that these very same group of guys chanted and cheered and outwardly showed emotions for killing other humans that you'll never experience or understand. I also know that when they close their eyes at night, it eats up their thoughts.

So between the two of us, I'm fairly certain I'm the most experienced and trained in this matter. Why wouldn't you approach a sleeping soldier and wake him up near the torso? Because his memories of war will play out in a violent way upon you against his wishes. He most certainly won't wake up with a smile and a fond memory of killing that Iraqi soldier laying on the ground. That's why we were taught to tap a Soldier's foot with our nightstick to wake them. You are passing judgement here on these Marines and their emotional reaction without the vast wealth of knowledge or training in the subject matter that some of us have first hand. Again, you are discounting what I am saying and are calling what happened in this video a crime because you don't like the emotion displayed by the participating Marines. I am telling you, that in the heat of battle, in war, humans become unhuman. Emotions displayed are not emotions intended. I can pull extracts from training documents that will explain this incident to you clearly. Do some research on it and you'll have a different perspective of what you saw on this video. I didn't see a crime and I'm trained to make that judgement.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Amused


You directly responded with this:

No, anyone with half a brain won't be blinded by patriotism that they will ignore any horrendous actions their country have committed.
The implication is obvious. Nice sidestep, but no one is buying it. Why would you speak of other atrocities when THIS tape and incident is the focus of this thread AND you are responding to my post addressing ONLY the incident in this thread???
I asked you to point out where I said US soldiers should be helping armed enemies and you use my quote above as proof of that? Are you playing stupid on purpose to try to confuse or do you really believe I implied that? To clear this up once and for all, no I never said ANYTHING about helping armed enemies, or letting them live when they're holding a gun, or hold a sit-in around Saddam's palace, or whatever else you pull out off your butt and try to pass it off as words coming out of my mouth. My point, bolded and made clear for your dimwitted mind, is that US soldiers have done awful things in the past; to ignore that is to admit you're a dumbass..

That's all I've meant to say and I'm getting tired of side-tracked about My Lai and whatnot (now addressing rogue). Someone asked how I could make a comparison between Japanese killing Chinese women and children and I answered with the My Lai massacre. We both agree US marines were very well in the wrong. But people like amused are more than ready to turn the other way and hold US soldiers to be above their own actions. And to some extent, you seem to be too, by using the psychology of war as an excuse. If I'm wrong in saying you believe that, correct me. As for me, I don't believe in pardoning calley and his troops because of the war mindset. Other soldiers experienced the same thing, but they didn't go rape villagers and cut off tongues, but these specific ones did. Which I brought up as an example of that not all soldiers are innocent boys.
The only dumbass here is you assuming I in any way support any atrocities committed by our soldiers in the past. And how in the fusk you could infer that from my statement that was focused on THIS INCIDENT and no other is beyond me.

It is not me who has a reading comprehension problem. It is you. I believe the cause is from you being blinded by an activist agenda. Instead of focusing on the topic at hand when addressing me, you claim to be going off on some wild tangent about some soldiers actions who have long since died or retired and have NOTHING at all to do with the present war... and THEN you have the unmitigated gall to tell ME I have a reading comprehension problem.


If you wish to speak about the topic of THIS thread which is THIS war and specifically THIS INCIDENT on the tape, let me know.
 

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
6,210
0
0
find rogue's entry really interesting-- if you're just skimming through this thread and are skipping all the lengthly posts, i suggest you read his.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,302
9
81
Originally posted by: zimu
what i find most surprising from all of this is the number of people who are like "you think THATS bad, its nothing! compare it to ....."

its pathetic how much this human race has become immune to such horror stories. i mean you see a guy being shot to death, and thats nothing, not because its nothign in itself but rather cause you've seen another guy had his heard chopped off and eaten while its still beating by some guy using his bare hands.

its all because of doom and wolfenstein, i'm telling u!!
No offense, but that's one of the stupidest things I've heard yet in this thread. You're blaming Doom and Wolfenstein? Like people haven't been brutalizing each other in wars for thousands of years? You think the Romans, for example, didn't see their fair share of brutality? By all accounts, their culture reveled in it! It's simple human nature that when exposed to images and situations like that, one becomes desensitized. Calling basic human nature "pathetic" sounds like nothing but liberal spin.
 

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
6,210
0
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: zimu
what i find most surprising from all of this is the number of people who are like "you think THATS bad, its nothing! compare it to ....."

its pathetic how much this human race has become immune to such horror stories. i mean you see a guy being shot to death, and thats nothing, not because its nothign in itself but rather cause you've seen another guy had his heard chopped off and eaten while its still beating by some guy using his bare hands.

its all because of doom and wolfenstein, i'm telling u!!
No offense, but that's one of the stupidest things I've heard yet in this thread. You're blaming Doom and Wolfenstein? Like people haven't been brutalizing each other in wars for thousands of years? You think the Romans, for example, didn't see their fair share of brutality? By all accounts, their culture reveled in it! It's simple human nature that when exposed to images and situations like that, one becomes desensitized. Calling basic human nature "pathetic" sounds like nothing but liberal spin.
relax dude,
it was a comic spin to a pressing argument, which i thought was slightly appropriate given that all of us are "computersy" people....
 

eno

Senior member
Jan 29, 2002
864
1
76
Thats War. Be or Be killed. I would be happy too if that guy was shootn at me or my fellow friends and I took him out. Happy I am not dead nor any of my friends.
 

cerebusPu

Diamond Member
May 27, 2000
4,008
0
0
i was just reading about "my lai" and it just grosses me out.

500 civilians slaughtered. 1 person convicted of murder, ended up serving 3 years of house arrest.

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/mylai.htm

eck!!

:disgust:

The official memorial in the village of My Lai lists 504 killed, ?182 women, of whom 17 were pregnant, and 173 children, of whom 56 were of infant age. Sixty of the men were over 60 years old??

 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,647
19
81
Originally posted by: zimu
i don't think this is a repost, I couldn't find anythign similar.

Anyway, go to
THIS SITE
and read about it.

The video is so disturbing... its when things go too far.

EDIT:
site keeps going up and down, you can still see the video HERE
OR
HERE
i must be cold, the video is not disturbing at all. it is a bad edit, which is more disturbing to me than the contents. seriously, have you ever talked to a vet? this is life.

how is this going too far?

 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
Again, you are discounting what I am saying and are calling what happened in this video a crime because you don't like the emotion displayed by the participating Marines. I am telling you, that in the heat of battle, in war, humans become unhuman. Emotions displayed are not emotions intended. I can pull extracts from training documents that will explain this incident to you clearly. Do some research on it and you'll have a different perspective of what you saw on this video. I didn't see a crime and I'm trained to make that judgement.
What is interesting is the implicit suggestion by some that soldiers should be trained (indoctrinated) to perceive themselves and what they do as some kind of abomination. That when a soldier kills in war, he should promptly heap disdain upon himself for what he's done. To view the discharge of his duty as something worthy of contempt.

Imagine if we adopted this rather bizarre motivational technique to train people for other occupations...

"You successfully operated on that man's heart without complications? You should be ashamed of yourself! And you call yourself a doctor?"


"You have the best safety record among all school bus drivers in the district. What an idiot you are!"


"As for the outstanding job you did identifying and apprehending the two violent felons who escaped from prison last week, I will personally see that you are fired for it."

----------------------

"How did you feel after pulling those two children from the burning car and saving their lives?"

"I felt like a low life. I wanted to commit suicide."

"Good! Serves you right."


 

43st

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
3,197
0
0
Does it make anyone angry when they laugh when we die? I seem to remember a bunch of posts around 9-11 talking about Middles Easterns dancing in the streets and how that was distasteful. I suppose it's not so distasteful now to dance and laugh when you kill someone.

If anything you're now no better than them... but that's what you wanted so that's what you got. Hopefully on day our culture can be an example to live by, not a new level to sink to.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,093
7,484
126
Originally posted by: Thera
Does it make anyone angry when they laugh when we die? I seem to remember a bunch of posts around 9-11 talking about Middles Easterns dancing in the streets and how that was distasteful. I suppose it's not so distasteful now to dance and laugh when you kill someone.

If anything you're now no better than them... but that's what you wanted so that's what you got. Hopefully on day our culture can be an example to live by, not a new level to sink to.
Cheering a military victory against armed soldiers is NOT the same as cheering a terrorist attack on innocent civilians. That you would compare the two defies logic and ethics.

Tell me, were the victory celebrations at the end of WWII "distasteful?"
 

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