NAS versus WHS

[Perryg114]

I was wondering if I am living in the dark age since I have not jumped on the NAS band wagon. Do the NAS systems have the same features that WHS has? Will it automatically backup machine OS image as well as data and will it duplicate critical stuff you don't want to loose. I am running WHS and it seems to be doing well but I am running into disk size limitations etc. It would be nice if someone made a NAS that would allow WHS to use it as storage. I don't mind upgrading to the newer WHS but I have not heard anything that makes it superior to the older 2008 version of WHS.

Perry

 

[evilspoons]

A NAS is really just a bucket to put stuff in. The software that puts (whatever) in the bucket is what matters. It sounds like you need some sort of backup solution, plus a place to put those backups.

I have two PCs relevant to this discussion - my desktop computer with all my super-critical files (photos I don't want to lose, etc) and my home theatre PC with a bunch of giant hard drives in it to store TV, movies, blah blah. The desktop runs Windows 8.1, the HTPC runs Windows 7. They are both on the same network.

I am using CrashPlan, backup software I like quite a bit [note: they are not paying me to say good things about it right now]. CrashPlan is installed on both machines. CrashPlan is set up to:

1. Back up Desktop to "Cloud". This sends EVERYTHING I think is important (NOT a system image, I have to reinstall if something blows up) to CrashPlan itself online. This costs me some money every year.
2. Back up Desktop to HTPC over my LAN. This is the same backup as 1, but uses space on my HTPC. I now have 3 copies of my critical stuff - two at home, and one at CrashPlan.
3. Back up critical HTPC stuff to Desktop.

#2 and #3 are free, #1 costs like $99 a year for unlimited storage.

As you can imagine, the home theatre PC doesn't have to be a home theatre PC, it can be a "backup" PC that ONLY runs CrashPlan on a regular version of Windows that is otherwise sitting idle. If you upgraded your WHS box to Windows 8.1, you can use a feature called Storage Pools to smoosh all your hard drives into one drive letter and not worry about where the data is going in particular. You could also do roughly the same thing with a NAS - just tell CrashPlan or [insert other backup software here] to put the files on the NAS network address, but since you already have a computer, I suggest just using that.

If you want full-PC images that you can instantly restore to, you could use Acronis TrueImage, I've had good luck with the corporate version of that here at work (Acronis Backup and Recovery). I haven't used TrueImage in a while though. It's like what Norton Ghost used to be. The newer versions of Ghost sort of stink in my experience. You could also use a combination of free CrashPlan and paid TrueImage, or whatever, just be careful not to get backups in your backups and make all your files gigantic!

 

[Cerb]

I was wondering if I am living in the dark age since I have not jumped on the NAS band wagon. Do the NAS systems have the same features that WHS has?

If you share a directory out on WHS, it is a NAS.

The special devices are proprietary Linux distros giving NAS and SAN functionality with nearly turn-key setup difficulty, a front end to common Linux command-line tools, and maybe an app store. They in no way replace a competent Windows Server box.

Does WHS 2008 not support GPT data drives? I assume it must boot MBR, but Vista/2008 and up have generally supported GPT fine for non-boot media, as did 2003 SPsomething. Edit: looks like not, and that even 2011 needed a hot fix!

 

[XavierMace]

Assuming this ties in with your other thread. Since you're limited to 2TB drives and 4 SATA ports you either get an addon SATA/RAID controller or replace the OS.

Unfortunately WHS (both versions) is way behind the times, that's why I stopped using it personally. WHS is based on 2003 R2. WHS 2011 is based on 2008 R2. In both cases, out of date. While the name "Home Server" is no more, it's largely succeeded by Windows Server 2012 R2 Essentials. It's not the cheapest solution to be sure at $390 for OEM.

It will have a little bit of a learning curve over WHS but you'll be in a much better place. They give you a more details run down here: http://winsupersite.com/article/win...012-essentials-home-server-replacement-144275 but suffice to say you're getting all the functionality you had and then some, including most importantly, support for larger than 2TB drives.

 

[Perryg114]

Thanks for the input. I am trying to look toward the future as far as my storage needs. Would the WS2012 R2 allow me to use a NAS as a place to store stuff? I like the idea of having the server where I can get at it and the NAS in a hardened location where it might not get destroyed if the house burns or gets blown away.

Perry

 

[hoorah]

I used to have a small NAS (Dlink consumer grade thing, 2 bays). It was just a samba/FTP server, nothing more (way before the fancy stuff of today).

Then I built a WHS box, which handled client backups, VPN, and data backups of the NAS, but the NAS was already in place and working so I left it be.

Eventually the NAS died and I migrated the data over to the WHS box directly. In doing so, I greatly simplified the setup, and performance made a big jump in the right direction (NAS boxes are usually slower than PCs). It was really nice to have everything in one box. Backups took a LOT less time than going from NAS to WHS (since they were now going from one drive to the other). Its something I wish I had done a long time ago.

So, based on my experience, I would say skip the NAS/WHS setup and put your storage in your WHS box to begin with.

As for WHS, I'm currently running WS2012 R2 essentials because I have access to a key I did not have to pay for myself. If I did, I probably would either run a NIX nas software setup or run WHS2011 because Im cheap and they would probably meet my needs. The biggest reason most people take the step up to 2012 is that
1- the 2TB backup limit with WHS2011, or
2- WHS2011 has trouble backing up Win 8, 8.1, 10 clients. Supposedly there is a fix for this although I havent gotten it to work.

If either of those are important to you, then you'll want to look at a 2012 solution. Otherwise 2011 is probably okay.

I believe 2011 can handle drives bigger than 2TB, but that the limitation was in the built-in backup tool. If you're using something like crashplan or another backup service, this wont really be an issue. Not 100% on that though.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

To be fair: those old DLINK DNS-3xx series NAS boxes were pretty slow. New ones are much faster.

That said, if you have a windows server in the home, there's not much benefit to breaking storage out into a separate device/OS. Windows will handle NAS-duty just fine.

 

[evilspoons]

Like I already said though, you can get 99% of the benefit by simply using any operating system on a PC (with the hardware and therefore hardware support you need) and the right backup software, and you already have the PC. I'd just slap Win 8.1 on that computer instead of worrying about WHS (whatever version) since they're clearly abandoning the platform. Your alternative would be some sort of Linux distro designed for NAS duty but getting them to play nice with Windows over the long term can be more headache than most people are willing to subject themselves to... others see it as no big deal or as a hobby.

 

[Towermax]

r
2- WHS2011 has trouble backing up Win 8, 8.1, 10 clients. Supposedly there is a fix for this although I havent gotten it to work.

WHS 2011 has no problem backing up Windows 8 or 8.1, if the drives are MBR-formatted. It doesn't handle GPT drives though, despite the supposed fix. Like you, the fix didn't work for me.

 

[Perryg114]

Well the question is where do I get a copy of WHS 2011 or am I better off staying with my 2008 version. I don't really need drives larger than 1T on my client machines. The only thing I have that needs that much storage might be my security camera DVR system but it takes a long time to use 1T on that. I am just running up against the wall on how many 2T drives I can install in the system. Maybe I need to go to a larger case with a full size motherboard. I wonder if it is possible to save some of the OS backups that WHS created and store them externally.

Perry

 

[Cerb]

Use eBay, or find other ways to implement your needed features. Microsoft wishes you poor people would go away, so IMO, you should take the time to do just that, in response.

For example, you should be able to implement push backups from client computers.

 

[WT]

I just upgraded my old EX470 WHS v1 to WHS 2011 last month. It allowed me to do native 64 bit restores on all of my machines, I can now back up the primary WHS drive and easily replace it, and also allowed me to pull the 2TB HDDs and use 3s or 4s that I had available. I doubled my storage space from 4.5 to 10TB, and so far, so good.

It took some time to get used to it after having WHS v1 for so many years, but as long as I can do a full restore of my PCs, I am happy. Note that I do not have any Win 8/8.1 client PCs so I can't comment on whether that works properly. The fact that I got WHS 2011 for $30 2 years ago when I saw the writing on the wall is just icing on the cake.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Use eBay, or find other ways to implement your needed features. Microsoft wishes you poor people would go away, so IMO, you should take the time to do just that, in response.

For example, you should be able to implement push backups from client computers.

Crashplan actually has a "free" mode that will let you designate one computer on your LAN as a backup destination for another.

You can either cross-connect (every PC backs up another PC) or designate one server.

Of course, if you use it, they'll try very hard to convince you to buy their premium services.

 

[Perryg114]

Well I just opened my sever case. There are only 4 drive bays and they are full but I have two more SATA headers on the board so I can drop in 2 more 2T drives which should get me down the road a ways. I can do some experimenting with other backup methods. I don't plan on going to Win 8 anytime soon. I have a bigger case I can transplant everything into.

Perry

 

[evilspoons]

Crashplan actually has a "free" mode that will let you designate one computer on your LAN as a backup destination for another.

You can either cross-connect (every PC backs up another PC) or designate one server.

Of course, if you use it, they'll try very hard to convince you to buy their premium services.

That's what I explained in my previous post.

And... well... they don't push the premium service on you. The UI just says something about "ENABLE CLOUD" and that's about it. I don't remember getting emailed by them when I was free-only...

 

[tweakboy]

The 2008 version is what I would.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well the question is where do I get a copy of WHS 2011 or am I better off staying with my 2008 version. I don't really need drives larger than 1T on my client machines. The only thing I have that needs that much storage might be my security camera DVR system but it takes a long time to use 1T on that. I am just running up against the wall on how many 2T drives I can install in the system. Maybe I need to go to a larger case with a full size motherboard. I wonder if it is possible to save some of the OS backups that WHS created and store them externally.

Perry

If things "still work," but you're fretting about disk size and MBR versus GPT partitions, it's easy to entertain the valid recommendations of posters so far. It can also be confusing.

WHS 2011 addresses the GPT issue. And what's more, Acronis True-Image 2014 also seems to allow disks of greater than 2TB, with or without the patch distributed to win 7 and WHS 2011 (Further I don't think 2011 needed a patch; it was built in.)

Now the problem we all face -- all of us WHS lovers -- is this. I got my WHS in its OEM envelope from Newegg when it was priced at $50. If you do a search for WHS-2011 install-discs/licenses now, you may find that any "unused/surplus" product is now being sold for about half what Server Essentials or a new, basic Win Server version would cost. Last time I looked, the EBAy seller wanted $150+.

I'm in no position to advise on a "jump to NAS." I LIKE my server. I DON'T WANT to shell out more than $300 at this time for Server 2012 Essentials or whatever version replaces 2011. I WOULD be inclined to upgrade the server OS at such a time that . . .well . . . "it's time." And I would expect to get several years out of the investment.

You can "build" a home server with Windows 8.1 -- probably good for use with Win 7 clients. Maximum PC promoted the idea; the "We Got Served" WHS website also promotes it, offering books on the subject. Whether it backs up client boot volumes so you can do a bare-metal restore, I couldn't say. But then, as some have already said, there may be a software solution to that as well.