Nader voters: don't betray your underlying values

tomford

Junior Member
Oct 7, 2004
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If you're still thinking about voting for Ralph Nader instead of John Kerry, please consider how many more lives will be lost in the coming years if your vote results in another Bush term. There's much to be said for promoting alternative parties, making a statement, promoting an agenda, and many other reasons one might vote for Nader, but there are times when practical consequences are so grave -- and more importantly, so irreversible -- that one must compromise the ideal for the practical.

Bush's first four years have caused hundreds of thousands of human deaths, millions of animal deaths, and immense suffering that would not have occurred if not for him. Another four years will only consolidate his policies and accelerate the damage. For those who die, the lessons a Nader vote might teach will be offered in vain. To sacrifice their lives in order to make a political point is to betray the value of the individual life, a core value in everything Ralph Nader has stood for.

The Lancet just published research showing that at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died because of the war. Iraq is far from resolved, and it looks like Bush is planning to wage exceptionally bloody new campaigns in Fallujah and other hotspots as soon as our election is over. Who knows what new, ill-conceived and incompetently managed adventure Bush might try in another four years.
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsP...11455&section=news

Bush's refusal to force chemical manufacturers and nuclear facilities to harden themselves against terrorists puts millions of Americans at risk.
http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1026-08.htm

Bush's rollbacks of environmental regulations that protect human health and safety have already begun to affect tens of thousands of children and adults. His plans to defy international agreement to ban the ozone-destroying methyl bromide will cause thousands of additional deaths from melanoma. His exemption of mine wastes from regulation under the Clean Water Act will result in thousands of deaths from cancer due to arsenic leaching into groundwater. His Clear Skies Initiative will add thousands more deaths from acute asthma. http://www.nrdc.org/legislatio...backs/rollbacksinx.asp

Wildlife have suffered from an endless onslaught of destructive Bush decisions, from the EPA excluding wildlife experts from review of new pesticide applications to the NMFS allowing tuna caught using a technique that has killed more than seven million dolphins to be labeled "dolphin safe." http://www.defendersactionfund.org/bushRecord.jsp

If you vote for Nader instead of Kerry and Bush wins as a result, many innocent lives will be lost. Even if you see Kerry as "the least worst" as Nader often says, for those individuals who will suffer and die because of Bush, that difference between Bush and Kerry is as important as could be. Kerry may not be everything you wish or even close to it, but on the environment, consumer issues, economic justice, and health care, his long record clearly indicates that his policies will be vastly better than Bush's. Although he's not the peace candidate many seek, he will certainly handle Iraq more carefully and competently than Bush, which will save lives, and he's much less likely than Bush to blunder into another disaster.
 

Budarow

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2001
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Yah...Nader SUCKS. These other political parties make it sound so very easy to correct the problems of the country. All these other political parties crack me up with their "we'll increase the minimum wage to $20/hour" and "we'll legalize weed", yada, yada, yada!

I can see it now. Nadar gets elected and all of a sudden...he becomes a LOT more like Kerry or Bush (or both). There's only 1 thing I actually agree with Bush on "it's hard work [to be president]".



 

LtPage1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
6,311
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nader is an egomaniac. by not endorsing kerry, he proves that he cares more about running than about his issues.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: LtPage1
nader is an egomaniac. by not endorsing kerry, he proves that he cares more about running than about his issues.
Egomaniac...I think I've heard that term used before to describe Nader...

Where did you hear it from?
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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what do u guys not get about nader??? He doesn't like democrats either.
 

Kibbo

Platinum Member
Jul 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: ntdz
what do u guys not get about nader??? He doesn't like democrats either.

Yes, and for the most part, he's right. The thing is that for most on the left, regardless of party, Bush (or more correctly his cabal) is worse than your standard repubocrat/demopublican government. And that anyone who agrees with Nadar's basic position should do anything they can in order to keep him out of office.
 
May 10, 2001
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Nader's basic position is that corporations own both parties.

and it's true.

If you agree with it then you are stabbing both America and yourself in the soul with the shiv of fear that the corporate slave masters have given you, if you vote for a D or an R.
 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
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I hate the whole talk that "A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush."

No it isn't. A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader.
 

TBone77

Banned
Oct 21, 2004
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Originally posted by: datalink7
I hate the whole talk that "A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush."

No it isn't. A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader.

Ignore them... it's just bitter liberal whining. Their candidate isn't good enough to garner the vote, so they have to start harassing the supporters of another candidate.
 

Budarow

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2001
1,917
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Nader's basic position is that corporations own both parties.

and it's true.

If you agree with it then you are stabbing both America and yourself in the soul with the shiv of fear that the corporate slave masters have given you, if you vote for a D or an R.

This could be corrected with 1 bill passed by congress and the white house...equal time on TV for ads, debates, etc. for say 3 political parties.

Then politicians would not be beholden to any person or company for $$$ in an attempt to be elected.

However, the repubs would NEVER go for this because they raise 2x, 3x, etc. the $$$ for campaigning verses the dems. And if the dems ever had equal $$$, they would defeat the repubs in ~70% (or more) of the elections.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
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Originally posted by: Budarow
However, the repubs would NEVER go for this because they raise 2x, 3x, etc. the $$$ for campaigning verses the dems. And if the dems ever had equal $$$, they would defeat the repubs in ~70% (or more) of the elections.
Link to those figures?

 

Budarow

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2001
1,917
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Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: Budarow
However, the repubs would NEVER go for this because they raise 2x, 3x, etc. the $$$ for campaigning verses the dems. And if the dems ever had equal $$$, they would defeat the repubs in ~70% (or more) of the elections.
Link to those figures?

Sorry...I don't have a link and my figures were intended to be estimates just based on my "paying attention" to U.S. politics for ~30 years. I'm pretty confident the repubs greatly outspent the dems in every presidential race going back at least 25 years and as for the "~70%" I base this estimate purely on the dems positions being more factual than the repubs (IMO)(i.e., voters who hear a lie 3 times and the truth 1 time are often more likely to believe the lie verses the truth).