n64 game prices.

[Anarchist420]

couldnt nintendo have started selling their first party games at $44.99 and still made some profits all other things constant?

sony sold their many of their games at $44.99 and i'd guess they made a profit off of some of them.

didn't the n64 fail not because of cartridges but because nintendo charged high fees for their rom chips? i think that the final (i say "final" because the Ultra 64 was going to have the Original final fantasy 7 which was going to be more like the previous entries and chrono trigger plus big heads) final fantasy vii wouldve been damn near perfectly possible on the n64 without it costing $5k or whatever sony humorously claimed, i dont remember. they couldve done it on more than one cart if necessary and it wouldn't have costed $500 or more unless that was the above-market value nintendo wanted for their rom chips.

zelda tOoT was pretty long (plus there is nothing quite like the music of gerudo valley) and it was only 32 MB plus eeprom if im not mistaken.

im just critical of nintendo because it has abused the system particularly the ip system and ruled with an iron fist to get more profits than they would in a society that is free and polite instead of exuding rude smelling farts on people, one right after another, like nintendo did... charging royalty fees showed a lack of creativity in the business models of sony, microsoft, and nintendo and it resulted in less creativity of product . i guess the royalty fees weren't too redundant for two generations, but they were once the n64 came along. how could nintendo have been so popular if they never had change for a paradigm? saying people wanted what they made isn't a good answer because no one is free. they made the best they could in the closed system they advocated in a rather humble opinion that held by some... was the fact that people did not look past that and were instead satisfied with everything they got what established their entry into quasi-pop culture?

 

[Imaginer]

What? IP had nothing to do with this. Brunt of the cost was the just the nature of the cost per MB of storage with optical media versus memory chips of a cartridge.

If anything, the cost of media versus "intellectual property" is at a more disparity with Sony, considering their $1 discs, and content.

 

[Imaginer]

Also, I am not sure how this is relevant now, other than more slander for newer audiences and bias generation.

If you want to give that angle, then Nintendo is OBVIOUSLY being slow with Virtual Console title rollout for N64 titles (along with SNES and NES titles) across their Wii U, 3DS platforms.

Not to mention, the buy two copies for two devices mentality, when their past cartridge based games can easily be done in a service account manner of access, authentication, and playability.

 

[Soundmanred]

Where do you get this stuff?
Drivel.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Does your internet not load websites from after 1996? Every time you posit a question, it's ancient history that no one cares about any more. "What's this, a console forum? I'll ask how people feel about Nolan Bushnell sabotaging Ralph Baer's legacy. That's relevant to people's interests. Oh, a political forum? I'll ask for the latest insight on how the language of the Federalist Papers impacted the resolution of the Treaty of Ghent." I don't visit the health and fitness forum, but I can only assume that you've asked for recommendations on the best placement of leeches to restore the balance of humours. Nintendo has released three consoles since the N64; do you have any insights as to why the WiiU has been so poorly received? That's slightly more relevant than the N64 at this point, don't you think?

 

[Soundmanred]

Does your internet not load websites from after 1996? Every time you posit a question, it's ancient history that no one cares about any more. "What's this, a console forum? I'll ask how people feel about Nolan Bushnell sabotaging Ralph Baer's legacy. That's relevant to people's interests. Oh, a political forum? I'll ask for the latest insight on how the language of the Federalist Papers impacted the resolution of the Treaty of Ghent." I don't visit the health and fitness forum, but I can only assume that you've asked for recommendations on the best placement of leeches to restore the balance of humours. Nintendo has released three consoles since the N64; do you have any insights as to why the WiiU has been so poorly received? That's slightly more relevant than the N64 at this point, don't you think?

I actually laughed out loud at that.
In regards to the thread creation, he probably thinks he's being "smart" or "deep" or "a thinking man".
It's none of the above.

 

[Anarchist420]

In regards to the thread creation, he probably thinks he's being "smart" or "deep" or "a thinking man". It's none of the above.

i was asking a question, but you kind of got it right, but kind of wrong also. most men are shallow realistic thinkers (i am). i'm not to think outside of the box so i'm not smart. but perhaps you could be more courteous?

i am enough for myself to put up with, trust me... i know how it feels.

Does your internet not load websites from after 1996? Every time you posit a question, it's ancient history that no one cares about any more. "What's this, a console forum? I'll ask how people feel about Nolan Bushnell sabotaging Ralph Baer's legacy. That's relevant to people's interests. Oh, a political forum? I'll ask for the latest insight on how the language of the Federalist Papers impacted the resolution of the Treaty of Ghent." I don't visit the health and fitness forum, but I can only assume that you've asked for recommendations on the best placement of leeches to restore the balance of humours. Nintendo has released three consoles since the N64; do you have any insights as to why the WiiU has been so poorly received? That's slightly more relevant than the N64 at this point, don't you think?

I agree with you and i liked the way you expressed what you said. keep it up.

but is it relevant to ask if they still use the royalty model? why do they still use it if they do? why did they quit it if they don't use it anymore?

 

[Anarchist420]

Also, I am not sure how this is relevant now, other than more slander for newer audiences and bias generation. If you want to give that angle, then Nintendo is OBVIOUSLY being slow with Virtual Console title rollout for N64 titles (along with SNES and NES titles) across their Wii U, 3DS platforms. Not to mention, the buy two copies for two devices mentality, when their past cartridge based games can easily be done in a service account manner of access, authentication, and playability.

agreed. nintendo doesnt give a damn at all about what their customers want. some companies listen at least sometimes, no matter how profit driven they may be. profit vs. care isn't really a good dichotomy.

they just happen to make stuff that some people like so i have to give them credit for that.

What? IP had nothing to do with this. Brunt of the cost was the just the nature of the cost per MB of storage with optical media versus memory chips of a cartridge.

for third party games, i thought the royalty fees were selling the rom chips but i guess i was wrong. also, can you source how expensive the rom chips were?

If anything, the cost of media versus "intellectual property" is at a more disparity with Sony, considering their $1 discs, and content.

true, i will admit that same applies to sega. they're all just institutions, but nintendo was always run by the same boss, at least for the longest damn time.

 

[Exophase]

Nobody would have ever done a multi-cartridge game. They'd first fill up the largest PCB they can fit inside a cartridge. If that was still not enough they'd probably go creative with larger cartridges. If the console's address space was a problem they'd add bank switching/mapper chips like they always did in the past. (please no smart guy come in to tell me I'm wrong because of Sonic & Knuckles or Pokemon or something, you know what I'm talking about )

I hate to validate this wild guess but there really could be something to this claim that Nintendo is overcharging for licensing. I've talked to someone who developed a DS game and according to him Nintendo's charges for the ROM chip (like, if you compare going from X to 2X MB) were several times what an equivalent SD card cost. And by all means a high volume mask ROM should be less expensive than a NAND flash, and this particular game sold in the millions.

But who knows what it was like in the N64 era when they were at a big cost disadvantage. There's no question that N64 carts were much more expensive to manufacture than pressed CDs.

 

[purbeast0]

i remember some N64 games DID have more stuff inside of them than others. the ones that used more memory definitely felt heavier than ones that were "normal".

 

[exdeath]

i remember some N64 games DID have more stuff inside of them than others. the ones that used more memory definitely felt heavier than ones that were "normal".

The high clocks from the Rambus architecture required heavy shielding inside the carts, and in typical Nintendo fashion they were excessive. The individual sides of the shielding are thick and heavy plates with enough mass to hurt someone if you throw them, not those thin tin foil things you could tear in your hands.

Shielding size matches PCB size and there were always half height and full height like all Nintendo's home carts.

 

[lamedude]

WTH happened with the 64DD? Why did it take so long for Nintendo to get a gloried Zip drive working? Was it the click of death?

 

[mmntech]

WTH happened with the 64DD? Why did it take so long for Nintendo to get a gloried Zip drive working? Was it the click of death?

The big laugh is the 64DD disks had the same capacity as the cartridges, 64MB. So it didn't even solve the problem it sought to address.

I think Nintendo went with cartridges not for technical reasons but more to differentiate the N64 from its competition. Both the Saturn and PS1 used CDs. The big advantage with cartridges though was speed. N64 games had no noticeable load times. I think that worked out in their favour for awhile. Though as time went on, the 64mb capacity of the carts began placing tighter restrictions on developers. Gamers were beginning to expect high quality music, voice acting, and FMV cinematics. Even with compression, there just wasn't overhead to do it well, if at all. Few PS1 games used the entire disc, but the space was there if needed.

The other problem with the N64 was lack of third party games. I think a lot of this had to do with restrictions placed on the number of titles publishers could put out in a year. So they just shuffled off to the competition when the time was right. Seems like there's still a lot of bad blood between third parties and Nintendo.

 

[poofyhairguy]

You can see why the N64 sucked easily today. When you play the games in an emulator at 1080p the textures look like garbage. PSX games for the most part look way better.

I for one am glad FF7 was for the PSX.

 

[exdeath]

You can see why the N64 sucked easily today. When you play the games in an emulator at 1080p the textures look like garbage. PSX games for the most part look way better.

I for one am glad FF7 was for the PSX.

With the default SGI RSP microcode, mip mapped textures had a 2k limit. Texel lookup was fixed from a hard wired 4k cache which is effectively cut in half by using mip maps , one of the console's most touted features over the competition . Combine this with relatively low poly count and thus large polys. So you had small 2k 8bpp textures stretched over large surfaces.

The largest power of two texture you can fit in 2k is 32x64x8bpp.

This was the console's greatest flaw, far worse than the cartridge restrictions, and the reason for the characteristic playdoh look of all N64 games.

With custom microcode, Rare was able to increase performance enough to have higher polygon tesellation to use multiple textures per polygon, but there is only so much you can do when you are limited to 2-4k of active texture size.

With modern silicon fabs making 64+ GB on a single chip possible, and making optical media obsolete, I'd like to see a return to cartridges.

 

[Anarchist420]

I think Nintendo went with cartridges not for technical reasons but more to differentiate the N64 from its competition. Both the Saturn and PS1 used CDs. The big advantage with cartridges though was speed. N64 games had no noticeable load times.

saturn games usually loaded pretty quickly especially with the additional 4MB. i cant think of any games that took a minute to load like on the PS1, but you could skip through the crap on most saturn games .

it wasnt necessarily because the Saturn had an additional processor for its cd drive, but that sure helped programmers get faster loading times than on ps1 games.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Wow, having grown up with te N64 in college, all I can say is how on Earth do people think the system failed?

 

[lamedude]

On its own I wouldn't call it a failure. It turned a profit so you could say its more successful than both Xboxes. Compared to the NES/SNES its a failure.

The big laugh is the 64DD disks had the same capacity as the cartridges, 64MB. So it didn't even solve the problem it sought to address.

The first 64MB cartridge, RE2, didn't show up until Oct 99 and Bad Fur Day was the only other game to use it. Having 64MB at or near launch would've helped a lot.

 

[Tweak155]

Wow, having grown up with te N64 in college, all I can say is how on Earth do people think the system failed?

Dillusion. I was back at my college just last year playing Super Smash Bros on N64 with the guys there. They've since put in a Wii / Gamecube to play the newer Smash Bros. Just not going to get that out of a PSX.

 

[AdamantC]

The other problem with the N64 was lack of third party games.

By the end of the SNES's life Nintendo had an over zealous grip on game content as well as having rather high licensing fees, which left a rather sour taste in the mouths of many publishers/developers.

Wow, having grown up with te N64 in college, all I can say is how on Earth do people think the system failed?

It didn't, but the PS1 completely eclipsed it in sales and number of games available.