n00b seeks server advice : ) (Loooooong question)

[at80eighty]

OK, so here goes,
1- im no IT guy , just a regular joe interested in IT, running a start-up small business unit and looking to use my interest in technology to maximise efficiency of my business.
2- i know there is a similar thread on the AT forums regarding server hardware, but i was hoping to get an answer tailored to my situation. Thing is, like i said above, im a total n00b w/regards to servers and i would'nt want to assume parameters that work for anyone else will surely work for me, so here's the deal: -

Server will be: File / Print / Mail / Web gateway/ Database server (i know Oracle is t3h hawtn3ss and all that but im looking mostly at SQL - [cost constraints] 😛 )

Initial # Users (for database) : 2 people write (on a regular basis) , 10 read (maybe - 4-5 concurrent users)
Looking to make it to : 3-4 people write, 15-20 read (by year end)

Mail is pretty heavily used by all during the day (10 presently)

im now tossing between building or buying straight-up a 1U rackmount, but i read on some other thread that one should try to avoid a 1U config, if possible. I was lookin to go the 1U way coz it looks pretty 😀...actually coz , the space required is minimal and i can move it easily as and when i shift to a newer premises.

in anycase the hardware i was looking to build:

CPU: Opteron 240 (940 Socket)
Motherboard: ASUS SK8N nForce3 Pro150 Chipset
RAM: Corsair 512MB XMS ECC PC3200
Hard-drive: Western Digital Raptor (74 GB, 10,000rpm) (SATA, probably RAID-0 config.)
DVD: Liteon LSC-24082K DVD-ROM 8x + CD-RW 24x24x24 Internal Slim Combo
Casing: Lian Li : IP-10

PSU: ???? (absolutely no idea here 🙂
Back-up: ??? (Do i require a back-up in RAID-0?)
GPU/VPU :laugh: : ??? 1- is a card required? 2- if so, i dont know if a card can fit in a 1U case, but did read about something called a "riser" (?)... any help here?
Cooling: would like suggestions here too 🙂

Do 1U's have USB ports?..just wondering...would be helpful...

OS: Win Small Business Server Premium Edition 2003

i realise that the above is going to be an expensive option, but i was looking at it this way: -if i shell for such a unit now, then i wont have to worry about upgrading/changing the hardware for some time to come? If you feel im wrong, feel free to correct/flame on this point as you wish 😀

I was wondering if all this will require me hiring a full-time IT staff? (looking to keep costs down, as salaries seem to form my greatest overheads), if not, how do i manage if i'm not available due to being on a trip/holiday?)

Also: slight thread-jack, but what is the best front-end for SQL in your opinion? i was considering Infopath, as i found the GUI very easy to use..and im supposedly the most computer-literate person in my office, so go figure 😱 , and if anyone could let me know if i should wait for SQL 2005?


Finally, should anyone reply thank you in advance, and for those who wanna simply flame me, i have my FlameProof XT5000 suit...so HA..joke's on you 😀

'80'

 

[Matthias99]

I was wondering if all this will require me hiring a full-time IT staff? (looking to keep costs down, as salaries seem to form my greatest overheads), if not, how do i manage if i'm not available due to being on a trip/holiday?)

If you're building a server for a company, you *really* ought to consider getting something with a support plan from a reputable OEM like Dell/HP/IBM. Unless you really want to be providing support for this thing when it breaks. Yes, you can save money up front by building it yourself if you have the expertise to do so. But unless you have someone to fix it for you when it goes down, you'll be glad later when 24-hour onsite tech support is just a phone call away.

If you *do* decide to build yourself:

im now tossing between building or buying straight-up a 1U rackmount, but i read on some other thread that one should try to avoid a 1U config, if possible. I was lookin to go the 1U way coz it looks pretty ...actually coz , the space required is minimal and i can move it easily as and when i shift to a newer premises.

A lot of stuff is a tight fit in most 1U cases. A 2U rackmount tends to fit 'normal' parts (full-height expansion cards, etc.) much more easily. How often are you planning to move this thing?

CPU: Opteron 240 (940 Socket)
Motherboard: ASUS SK8N nForce3 Pro150 Chipset
RAM: Corsair 512MB XMS ECC PC3200
Hard-drive: Western Digital Raptor (74 GB, 10,000rpm) (SATA, probably RAID-0 config.)
DVD: Liteon LSC-24082K DVD-ROM 8x + CD-RW 24x24x24 Internal Slim Combo
Casing: Lian Li : IP-10

You'll almost certainly want more RAM (I'd say 1GB as a minimum, and maybe even >2GB, depending on your database sizes). Also, some S940 boards have separate RAM slots for each processor, which gives better performance. I haven't built an Opteron server, so I'm not real familiar with the boards out there currently.

And you almost certainly want redundant storage (RAID1, 0+1, or 5), unless you're using some sort of external SAN/NAS solution for bulk data storage and backup (and even then I would recommend it). RAID0 by itself on a server is suicide. And you WILL need a backup solution, even if you use redundant RAID.

GPU/VPU : ??? 1- is a card required? 2- if so, i dont know if a card can fit in a 1U case, but did read about something called a "riser" (?)... any help here?

Well, if you want to attach a monitor to this system, you'll need *some* kind of video card. Many server motherboards come with some sort of onboard video for just basic desktop work. Unless you want to play games, you don't need anything fancy at all. You can get half-height video cards of a few varieties if you look around.

Do 1U's have USB ports?..just wondering...would be helpful...

Um, depends on the motherboard. Just like in any system.

PSU: ???? (absolutely no idea here

A name-brand one that fits in your case and has an adequate amount of wattage for the system you're building? I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Cooling: would like suggestions here too

Generally the case and PSU come with some fans, as do the CPUs. You shouldn't need anything else.

Also: slight thread-jack, but what is the best front-end for SQL in your opinion? i was considering Infopath, as i found the GUI very easy to use..and im supposedly the most computer-literate person in my office, so go figure , and if anyone could let me know if i should wait for SQL 2005?

Sorry, no idea.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

And you almost certainly want redundant storage (RAID1, 0+1, or 5), unless you're using some sort of external SAN/NAS solution for bulk data storage and backup (and even then I would recommend it). RAID0 by itself on a server is suicide. And you WILL need a backup solution, even if you use redundant RAID.

Aye.
at80eighty - budget for a decent tape drive (DDS-4, AIT etc), and keep nightly backups off site where they can't be damaged by flooding or fire etc.

Imagine what would happen if you lost all your business data at once.

 

[uOpt]

Didn't read your whole posting yet, just spotted the "1U" server thing.

Don't do that. Listen to me [smack on head], don't do that.

1U units die like flies. They are for businesses that have dozends of them, a few spare ready and staff which is ripping the broken one out and putting in a spare.

The reliablity is awful. The smaller the components, the less reliable. That especially applies to the small power supplies put into 1U units. Not to speak of noise. And the PCI slot raisers which are not improving reliablity either.

If you want 19", do yourself a favor and get a 4 HE unit and put in stock mass-market motherboard and power supply.

 

[uOpt]

Obvious question: you know what RAID-0 is doing?

 

[JackMDS]

Welcome to AT Forums.

Originally posted by: at80eighty
1- im no IT guy

IT guys do not concentrate their efford on single computer?s Hardware (doing so is a gamer type of thing).

IT guys concentrate their effort on the actual Network Appliances and how to set the best OS and software for their specific situation.

In your situation I would buy Entry level Server form Dell or similar vendor, and start to learn Networking, or hire an IT consultant.

:sun:

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
Welcome to AT Forums.

Originally posted by: at80eighty
1- im no IT guy

IT guys do not concentrate their efford on single computer?s Hardware (doing so is a gamer type of thing).

IT guys concentrate their effort on the actual Network Appliances and how to set the best OS and software for their specific situation.

I would say this rather depends on your definition of what an "IT guy" does. I've worked in places where "IT" covered both network administration and high-level decisions like which database software packages to use, as well as technical support and assisting users in configuring (and setting up, maintaining, and troubleshooting) servers and workstations. IMO, someone who couldn't do both of those tasks would make for a much less effective IT employee, even if their particular job did not require them to work on the single-system level.

However, hiring a full-time employee to take care of a single server seems like overkill to me. 😛 For a small company, you're better off just buying all your systems from a vendor with onsite tech support.

 

[at80eighty]

First up: thanks once again to all of you who replied

Matthias99:

1- Looks like I may have to go the OEM way?.reason I wanted to build was that a) I had a quick skim of the OEM (Acer/HP/IBM ?don?t know if Dell has an enterprise division where I live) providers here, and they have quite a range of options?but the prices kinda toe the line of INSANE? Computer prices in general are wayyyy overpriced where I live?GRRRR? :|

I was thinking of importing the components from the US and assembling it here? saving $900-$1000! Which I?m sure you guys have to admit is pretty decent savings
?but the maintenance thing has got me thinking again?. Is the cost of a server breakdown gonna cost me more than what I?m saving? Hmmm? damned decisions 😀

2- Given the general feedback, I think I?ll skip the 1u option; I kinda overestimated the ?moving? aspect?
3- w/ref to RAM: I forgot to mention 512 x2 😛?was actually looking at 1GB...
4- noted about the graphics card

Props for the other suggestions

Dopefiend:
(No sarcasm, serious question) Now, how exactly do I back-up off-site? Isn?t a back-up attached to the server?)..or are you saying I should take the tapes home with me?

Imagine what would happen if you lost all your business data at once

Simple, I read in ?Dilbert? sometime ago: ?there is nothing that a suitable application of dynamite can?t solve?

MartinCracauer:

1- LOL!! YOU?RE the guy who I was referring to in my earlier post about some dude who said to avoid the 1U concept! In fact, I think you used the exact same phrase ?drop/die like flies? 😀
2- w/regrds to the '4 HE': I have no idea what you?re talking about, but I?m going to look it up right now
3- RAID-0? It?s to mirror a drive right? Again, my knowledge is limited, and computers is not my livelihood, just have a major interest in it, so forgive the ignorance. I was just assuming if I mirror a disk, then the redundancy factor helps me if a drive fails. What exactly IS wrong with RAID-0 anyway?

JackMDS:

w00! A welcome from an elite member... yay! Dude, you?re right about one thing?I am a gamer...or was? until I started the business in question 😀 ? guess the whole gamer ?OMG!!oneoneeleven I jst h4v3 to g3t da n00 6800GT to pWn j00 in d00m? thingy just carried over into the real world 😀 ...would explain my luck with women too :laugh::shocked:

w/ref to the IT consultant, I am gonna get 2 of my friends (IT guys at pretty major local companies) to help me out, but since ive been a lurker on this site for more than a year, and realized that I check the site every single day and you guys are part of the reason, I just thought it would be nice to get some help from across the pond (I live in the UAE ?faaarrrr farrr away from you guys 🙂 )

Finally, what I?d like to know is do you guys think the specs I?m looking at (in case I?m assembling?still unsure) is overkill for my requirements?

/and yes, UAE = Middle East (but I?m Indian), so next time you guys wanna nuke the place and turn it into a glass parking lot, remember: there is a fellow AT?er out here who wants to play HL2 with you?:laugh:

 

[DaFinn]

RAID O = striping. Data is spread among the 2 (or more) drives. Gives maximum speed, but absolutely no security. If 1 drive from the array fails, ALL data is lost.

RAID 1 = mirroring. (This is what you are looking for) Both drives contain all the data. Writes are a bit slower, but read speeds are faster than single drive.

AT FAQs is also your friend in RAID questions

 

[uOpt]

Originally posted by: at80eighty
MartinCracauer:

1- LOL!! YOU?RE the guy who I was referring to in my earlier post about some dude who said to avoid the 1U concept! In fact, I think you used the exact same phrase ?drop/die like flies? 😀
2- w/regrds to the '4 HE': I have no idea what you?re talking about, but I?m going to look it up right now
3- RAID-0? It?s to mirror a drive right? Again, my knowledge is limited, and computers is not my livelihood, just have a major interest in it, so forgive the ignorance. I was just assuming if I mirror a disk, then the redundancy factor helps me if a drive fails. What exactly IS wrong with RAID-0 anyway?

Hm, not sure I bashed 1Us on anandtech before. Might have been a like-minded fellow.

But there is a very serious tendency that the smaller computers get the less reliable and the louder they get. This is only for people who get serious cost-savings out of avoiding a few 19 inch units.

As for bigger 19" cases, I am considering getting this case for my serverator:
http://store.chassisoutlet.com/4uramoatx2xu.html

Anybody has opinions on that one?

 

[Matthias99]

(No sarcasm, serious question) Now, how exactly do I back-up off-site? Isn?t a back-up attached to the server?)..or are you saying I should take the tapes home with me?

Um, yes. Off-site, i.e. not stored in the same physical location as the server. If you don't keep at least *some* sort of off-site backup, and the building the server (and backup!) is in burns to the ground, the backup's not going to do you much good, now is it?

The normal procedure would be to get a tape drive and rotate multiple tapes (or DVD-RWs, or external hard drives, or whatever). You might, for instance, keep a week's worth of daily incremental backups, and a full backup every week (or month, or whatever makes sense depending on your volume of data and how much it's worth).

 

[uOpt]

I do off-site backup with rsync to a machine on the other side of the Atlantic. So even if they nuke this whole place I'll still have my data 😛

I also carry important data on DVD or on a notebook into the office and store it there.