N.S.A. Able to Foil Basic Safeguards of Privacy on Web

[Doppel]

If this wasn't already posted under some other thread, I assume it's not been yet because we are suffering from NSA fatigue, that tiredness that comes from continual revelations about how privacy is being breached by NSA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html

NY Times reports yesterday:

The agency has circumvented or cracked much of the encryption, or digital scrambling, that guards global commerce and banking systems, protects sensitive data like trade secrets and medical records, and automatically secures the e-mails, Web searches, Internet chats and phone calls of Americans and others around the world, the documents show.

I don't know much about encryption but find this surprising; I don't know if Snowden is being accurate or not in his report.

However, it may be legit:

Intelligence officials asked The Times and ProPublica not to publish this article, saying it might prompt foreign targets to switch to new forms of encryption or communications that would be harder to collect or read. The news organizations removed some specific facts but decided to publish the article because of the value of a public debate about government actions that weaken the most powerful privacy tools.

 

[JD50]

Ummm.... isn't this the entire purpose of the NSA? What exactly did people think the NSA has been doing for 60+ years? What's next, the FBI is good at investigating domestic crime and the ATF is good at seizing Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?

 

[yllus]

Ever since the Stuxnet incident it's become clear that the U.S. government has very, very deep knowledge of computer systems. Things that the rest of the world doesn't know because they aren't the country that can persuade/force Microsoft to tell them things first. I am sure that event spurred many foreign governments to start the shift to Linux and new cryptography standards.

 

[mshan]

Anyone remember the 1992 Robert Redford movie "Sneakers"?

In it, the NSA is after a computer chip some mathematician invented that can decode most encryption (such as Federal Reserve, air traffic control, power grid).

Irony is that at end of movie when NSA forces Robert Redford's character to give them chip, he says, you know, this chip won't decode any Russian encryption, only American encryption, because they use a different mathematical formula for their encryption than we do.

It's like current argument that this is all being done to protect us from terrorists, where I remember reading years ago that real terrorists stopped using the internet in the late 1990s...

 

[Double Trouble]

I've always suspected the NSA would have a close *cough* working relationship *cough* with all the major tech players, to the point where they would make them have back doors in everything or hand over the keys etc. With an essentially unlimited bankroll, I'm sure they have the state of the art cracking technology as well and can break most common encryption schemes.

The only way to keep things relatively secure is to use open source tools for strong encryption. The open source code prevents addition of back doors or weaknesses that nobody else is aware of.

 

[Doppel]

Ummm.... isn't this the entire purpose of the NSA? What exactly did people think the NSA has been doing for 60+ years? What's next, the FBI is good at investigating domestic crime and the ATF is good at seizing Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?

I throw a poisonous snake through your window. It bites you. You complain. "But this is what snakes do!", I respond.

 

[PokerGuy]

Ummm.... isn't this the entire purpose of the NSA? What exactly did people think the NSA has been doing for 60+ years? What's next, the FBI is good at investigating domestic crime and the ATF is good at seizing Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?

If the NSA was doing these things to actually pursue their stated goals, I'd have no problem with it, but since it's obvious they are using these tools to spy on Americans and violate their privacy, I'm opposed. If there were good checks and safeguards in place to prevent misuse/abuse of spying capabilities, it would make me a little more at ease, but that's not the case.

 

[Atreus21]

I'm switching to typewriters.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm switching to typewriters.

That's being done.

 

[Dari]

I throw a poisonous snake through your window. It bites you. You complain. "But this is what snakes do!", I respond.

IIRC, JD50's a cop or former cop so I can see why he'd have no problem with the government shitting all over our civil liberties...

 

[fskimospy]

One of the primary purposes if not THE primary purpose of the NSA is to crack encryption. How anyone could possibly be surprised that they have cracked widely used encryption is beyond me.

Just what did you guys think they have been doing in that big black building for the last half century or so?

 

[Dari]

One of the primary purposes if not THE primary purpose of the NSA is to crack encryption. How anyone could possibly be surprised that they have cracked widely used encryption is beyond me.

Just what did you guys think they have been doing in that big black building for the last half century or so?

A lot more than we thought they were doing. The NSA is out of control.

 

[fskimospy]

A lot more than we thought they were doing. The NSA is out of control.

So seriously you are saying that you didn't think the NSA would crack SSL and other internet encryption? If they hadn't been cracking it they should all be fired. That's their job.

The NSA has been used in a way to spy on Americans without warrants. I think that's bad. The NSA cracking encryption is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. That's what we pay them for. I sincerely don't understand why people are surprised or upset that our crypto cracking team has been cracking crypto.

 

[chucky2]

I cannot imagine why this is even a news story. Shouldn't people already expect that the NSA, the agency whose whole point is to break into and monitor shit, can do this? Shouldn't this be like, a given? I mean, you may not want them to be able to do this because you value your privacy, but, shouldn't you already expect that they can (and probably do) do this?

It's like it's pile on NSA month or something...

 

[Dari]

So seriously you are saying that you didn't think the NSA would crack SSL and other internet encryption? If they hadn't been cracking it they should all be fired. That's their job.

The NSA has been used in a way to spy on Americans without warrants. I think that's bad. The NSA cracking encryption is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. That's what we pay them for. I sincerely don't understand why people are surprised or upset that our crypto cracking team has been cracking crypto.

It appears as if a lot of their energy has been turned inward. Cracking code is what made them. Spying on Americans is what should break them.

 

[fskimospy]

It appears as if a lot of their energy has been turned inward. Cracking code is what made them. Spying on Americans is what should break them.

What does any of that have to do with this article? I mean did anyone really think that the NSA was sitting around internally saying "man I wish we could monitor Osama's activity but he logged into his Chase account so we gave up".

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I cannot imagine why this is even a news story. Shouldn't people already expect that the NSA, the agency whose whole point is to break into and monitor shit, can do this? Shouldn't this be like, a given? I mean, you may not want them to be able to do this because you value your privacy, but, shouldn't you already expect that they can (and probably do) do this?

It's like it's pile on NSA month or something...

From my perspective the problem is the coercion that goes with it. "Hi I can destroy you. Do you want to test me?" attitude. Besides I don't see that illegitimate (by most of the publics standards) access is being prevented. The government has lied enough about this already that there's no good reason IMO to believe them. Take the DEA access to information as an example. In the end it looks like most of what will found out is what you and I do. The bad guys will revert to paper for most things. d

 

[Doppel]

I cannot imagine why this is even a news story. Shouldn't people already expect that the NSA, the agency whose whole point is to break into and monitor shit, can do this? Shouldn't this be like, a given? I mean, you may not want them to be able to do this because you value your privacy, but, shouldn't you already expect that they can (and probably do) do this?

It's like it's pile on NSA month or something...

If you can of even imagine why the breaking of widely used encryption is a news story you certainly don't know what encryption is or why it is important.

 

[readymix]

NSA built IBM
the
IBM 7950 Harvest

 

[fskimospy]

If you can of even imagine why the breaking of widely used encryption is a news story you certainly don't know what encryption is or why it is important.

What I don't get is why everyone wasn't already assuming the NSA could break it.

 

[chucky2]

From my perspective the problem is the coercion that goes with it. "Hi I can destroy you. Do you want to test me?" attitude. Besides I don't see that illegitimate (by most of the publics standards) access is being prevented. The government has lied enough about this already that there's no good reason IMO to believe them. Take the DEA access to information as an example. In the end it looks like most of what will found out is what you and I do. The bad guys will revert to paper for most things. d

Yes, I agree, that is a large problem. This is why we need Politicians with a properly working moral compass, to ensure people with the correct inate values are overseeing and working in these agencies. I don't want someone so F'd up working on one of these that they think the Gov has unlimited money, that paying people to not work is a good thing, that allowing us to be illegally invaded is sweet. These could be basic litmus test questions on if the person is of low morals, or, is simply someone to not be trusted with some highly sensitive Gov system/data. We need people pure of heart overseeing and in charge of this stuff, not typical Political system whore types. This is what I'm probably the most leery about: To get this we'd need to assume our Politicians are actually trustable and competent...raise your hands if you think we have that? No one? Yeah...that's a big problem...

If you can of even imagine why the breaking of widely used encryption is a news story you certainly don't know what encryption is or why it is important.

No, I understand it perfectly well. The point is the American public has long elected Politicians who have made it a point to create, fund, and grow the NSA (along with CIA and DoD). We as a country wanted these groups to be ultra powerful, ultra modern, ultra secretive, etc. We got what we wanted. Now that it comes out the NSA can crack SSL (and whatever else they an do that we don't know about), it's some amazing story and something to be up in arms about? Really? Come now, before this story broke, or Snowden, you really didn't believe that the NSA couldn't crack standard encryption? That the NSA didn't spy on Americans on American soil?

I'm far less worried about what they're able to do and far more worried about what type of access (and how secure that access, and access to the systems accessing them are) they are providing. What is the moral compass of those administering and overseeing these systems. Etc. Etc. I'm not so worried that their system reads my e-mail to my uncle on putting in the new well pump, but rather, that they allowed access to the FBI who allowed access to the Chicago PD who in turn allowed their multitude of F'ing idiots and/or corrupt officers access. Now we'd have a big problem.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What I don't get is why everyone wasn't already assuming the NSA could break it.

I assumed it could. This story is more of a verification that not only can it do so and the measures gone to to insure it.
For purposes of discussion I assume that quantum decryption exists and the NSA has it. There is of course the One-Time Pad, which is unbreakable even in principle, but implementation is problematic. So for now and the future personal security and privacy are an illusion, completely dependent on the good will of governments.

 

[Agent11]

Obligatory viewing.

'Blurred Lines' Parody Mocks Obama's NSA Snooping

I heard a red line parody on the radio but I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to find it via the internets.

 

[mshan]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...ackberry-and-android-smartphones-documents-re

http://www.dailytech.com/NSA+Bypass...ken+International+Encryption/article33325.htm



(I've heard on tv that the NSA still can't tell Obama exactly what Snowden took from their systems, so it will be interesting to see if he has been blind-sided by Snowden yet again)

Barrack "Locutus of Borg" Obama

"Also the name "locutus" is latin for spoken; which is what Picard did for the borg, he served as an intermediary—speaker—for them."

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/5653/why-did-the-borg-name-locutus



(sadly, it does seem that Obama, either willingly or unwillingly, has been assimilated by The Borg (global ruling elites)

 

[Fern]

-snip-
(I've heard on tv that the NSA still can't tell Obama exactly what Snowden took from their systems, so it will be interesting to see if he has been blind-sided by Snowden yet again)

Yep. I've read articles confirming that. They (the NSA) doesn't know what he got (or accessed) and they don't fully understand how he did it.

Fern