My Windows 10 Upgrade Dilemma

[BonzaiDuck]

So. [HELLO! -- I HOPE that SOMEBODY at Microsoft keeps tabs on this forum, and finds this thread! You are also directed to a link in the text below.]

I have a household with four Win 7 workstations, a Win 7 wireless laptop and a WHS-2011 (Win2008R2) server. There are three users. I have tweaked and tuned the entire "orchestra" to perfection. Daily backups are flawless. Devices like PS3 are fully integrated.

The laptop falls out of the equation because the technology likely will not be covered by Win 10. This is just a hint of something unprecedented, because previous OS versions were less limited to older PCs.

Another Win 7 workstation will pose a problem as a business-oriented machine to which I'd installed MS Office 2003: Win 10 only covers Office 2007 forward. Again, this is unprecedented, for the same reason I mentioned. If I save money for the free Win 10 upgrade, I'll have to spend it for a newer Office version.

Two of the workstations do extra HTPC duty, feeding my Home Theater (AVR and HDTV) with cable-TV processed through two Silly-Dust HDHR'-s on our network, and streaming some content to other PCs. Those PCs could be configured to use the six HDHR' tuners if the other two users wanted TV via WMC.

Here's a thread on the HTPC forum started by another member, to which I contributed:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2433208

As explained in posts to that thread, I've tried KODI/XBMC on one of the two HTPC-enabled PCs, and am less than satisfied. Of course, the idea of it was to find an app to replace Windows Media Center under Windows 10 -- which won't offer Media Center.

After completing my "reservations" for the WIN 10 upgrade on the four workstations, I am now selectively reversing and declining them. I'm not going to change my TV and other media habits -- resorting to a set-top box for Live TV. Why should I? Between the Silly-Dust HDHR'-s and WMC, I'm happier than a pig in s*** with it. But I'm not happy with the way Microsoft has handled this feature in their forthcoming Win 10 OS.

Some folks may have decided that Media Center was an irritation in their Win 7 systems. And of course, Win 8 users had to pay extra for it, so for the former group, the irritation merely "went away." But MC superbly integrated personal photo collections, music collections, video and other features. Why not keep it?! Or at least -- offer it as a $10 extra.

I came up with this technology, jumping on the bandwagon around 1982 at the age of 35. For the individual, the mandate seemed to be one of finding every way you could apply the technology to improve your business, your profession, your work -- and your lives. I have done exactly that, and continue to do so in my retirement.

If MS disbanded the group who put together Media Center in 2009, a company with the guaranteed profits of a dominant firm should consider cross-subsidizing its continuation, or at least finding a way to break even with it. So bring back some of the team, tweak the Win 7 or Win 8 version of Media Center, and offer it as a download -- even for a price.

Ending this, I can only ask a question of an autopsist and MD in Stone's "JFK:" "Who's in charge here?!" We started this journey with Bill Gates sleeping in a cheap Albuquerque motel room, working with the manufacturer of the Altair 8800 -- a company called MITS. [Correct me about the particulars.] We proceeded with MS through versions of MS DOS, followed by Windows 2, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, Win 95, Win 98, . . . Win 2000, Win XP -- you get the picture? You offered Media Center with Windows XP, so we've gone through four versions of Windows with it.

We've suffered through all the frustrations of Dick Valenti's Media Nazis and the hurdles of HDCP -- which Media Center handles well, but for which other options like XBMC seem to fall short. I can't get my premium channels on KODI. Not . . easily, and so far, in no way I've discovered.

Some folks are saying "Yay! We're moving to internet streaming of video content!" Sorry, but that's not filling the gap any time soon. I don't know a house on this block which isn't connected to the predominant cable company in the area -- providing cable-TV, high-speed internet access and low-cost telephone service.

Live up to the promise of the technology! You have little else to do, other than to resurrect the extant WMC versions and make them work with Windows 10. And like I said before: "Who [the hell] is in charge here?!"

Otherwise, at least grateful for Win 7 support through 2020 and Win 8 support for a few years thereafter -- "I decline."

Thank you very much. . . . And "Thanks for your support."

 

[sweenish]

Quite the ramble. And it is a ramble, as nowhere in there is the actual point explicitly stated.

I'm not sure in what way Kodi would have proven inferior? Although, I'm not aware of people who use Kodi with TV cards for live TV. I'm fairly sure that plug-ins exist, though.

Wouldn't a free mythbuntu be better?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Quite the ramble. And it is a ramble, as nowhere in there is the actual point explicitly stated.

I'm not sure in what way Kodi would have proven inferior? Although, I'm not aware of people who use Kodi with TV cards for live TV. I'm fairly sure that plug-ins exist, though.

Wouldn't a free mythbuntu be better?

Oh. Maybe I wasn't explicit enough.

Every new OS version promises "upgrade" -- whether you pay for it, or it's offered free. And there are always glitches.

I used to jump on every new version when it came along. And I suffered through the glitches, headaches, frustrations -- difficulties -- disrupting my routine. This time, we hope that the "upgrade" only comes with a few minor software incompatibilities. When I jumped from VISTA to Win 7, I had to spend about $200 on "new software." Some of that is to be expected.

You're suggesting . . . that I should install Ubuntu and "Myth TV?" I haven't found any "plug-ins" for Kodi that fill that bill. I expect to get the premiums for which I've already paid in my monthly subscription. But the limitations are fairly well-discussed in forums turned up through research web-queries I've made so far.

MS made "some kinda deal" with the "protected content police." WMC all worked fine -- with HDCP and the pairing of devices. I get STARZ. I get HBO. I get USA. I get Cinemax. If I DVR a movie or program, I can only play it from the machine that recorded it. That's fine, but I'd like a smooth transition, especially for those machines. Instead, I get "no transition."

If someone has a solution to this, I'd like to know. But the "so-called" expert blogs I've seen so far say one thing: "Don't upgrade; keep using Win 7 or Win 8."

For the option you mentioned, that's more "extra trouble" than simply finding a WMC replacement. And some of the dismissive nonsense I've read about the "missing Media Center" prompted a flurry -- a barrage -- of protest, for being rubbish.

But the point was clear enough. I have enough reason to reverse my "reservation." And plenty of reason to criticize MS for failing to provide what they already have in their inventory.

 

[Ketchup]

I don't understand it either. I mean, with 8.1 they were offering it for an extra fee, they have already put most of the work into it, so I don't really see a good reason for them going this route.

However, I firmly believe that necessity will bring other avenues to light. Look at it this way: 10 isn't out yet. Windows Vista, 7, and 8(.1) have the MC features, and are still supported.

So, when MC gets harder and harder to come by, I think we will see more good options to take it's place (including the possibility of MS doing a 180).

 

[13Gigatons]

Cable TV is dying a slow death. People are cutting the cord. Hardly ever DVR anything anymore. WMC was nice for it's day but that day has passed. Don't hear much about cable cards anymore either.

Streaming Video is what people want, sit down hit a button and watch a TV show or film.

In your case, keep paying those crazy high cable TV prices and don't forget to set your DVR. :awe:

 

[Ketchup]

Cable TV is dying a slow death. People are cutting the cord. Hardly ever DVR anything anymore. WMC was nice for it's day but that day has passed. Don't hear much about cable cards anymore either.

Streaming Video is what people want, sit down hit a button and watch a TV show or film.

In your case, keep paying those crazy high cable TV prices and don't forget to set your DVR. :awe:

The cable companies are killing themselves. We cut the cord years ago. But my parents still have it, and we were over at their house the other weekend. The picture quality is aweful, the commercials are longer than every, the ratio of "good" channels to "junk" is staggering IMO, and they are paying more than ever. With more and more shows popping up on Netflix, I see very little reason to go back.

One thing I noticed is that their cable company has more HD channels than they used to, but guess what? Yeah, you get to pay extra for those!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The cable companies are killing themselves. We cut the cord years ago. But my parents still have it, and we were over at their house the other weekend. The picture quality is aweful, the commercials are longer than every, the ratio of "good" channels to "junk" is staggering IMO, and they are paying more than ever. With more and more shows popping up on Netflix, I see very little reason to go back.

One thing I noticed is that their cable company has more HD channels than they used to, but guess what? Yeah, you get to pay extra for those!

Well, I get my bundled cable bill in e-mail, and it arrived today. I shouldn't need to look at it, though. We're paying something around $50/mo for 60Mb/s Internet, $20/mo for any telephone calls in the lower 48, maybe $35 covering rental of 4 set-tops and 2 cable-cards. The remainder, including taxes, is maybe ~$110. The latter covers just about every premium channel you'd want. We don't do "pay-per-view," which would add to the charges. Of course, we get "On Demand," which would cover SOME material we might DVR, but not enough for comfort. And I HATE their set-top-box interface -- WMC offers a lot more information.

Figure all that is split three ways among fixed incomes. So everyone gets what the want as well as what they don't want for about $70 each/month.

If we wanted, we could cancel two set-tops, the premiums, sports channels -- etc. and $130 would shrink to less than a barebones cell-phone bill -- split three ways.

I DO get Netflix, and I'm only barely satisfied with it for the mere $8/mo I pay. I don't see . . . . any . . . gu-rreat wonderfulness there. I make a point of watching three or four Netflix movies a month so that my outlay seems worth it.

So how long do I have to wait to get that $110-worth of stuff . . for what? In a single web-link?

I think it's great that we're "moving to online streaming," but I see a "great divide" of time and uncertainty before I know "what," "from whom," "for how much," "how" and "when."

Cable companies seem to be locational monopolies, since you only have so many choices in any locality, even if they're "nationwide" operations. With the infrastructure, the vast tech-support and other aspects, do we really think they'll "go out of bidnis?" Essentially, they provide the ISP internet access by which we will get all this streaming "wonderfulness."

We could "save money" if we cut the cord: OTA broadcast TV is "still there." But my WMC INTEGRATES my OTA reception via Hauppauge 2250-card with my Silly-Dust triple-tuners -- seamlessly. So we're back to the same-ol' same-ol' again. OTA isn't "encrypted" or "premium," and you can DVR the broadcasts -- with MEDIA CENTER OR KODI OR PLEX OR WHATEVER.

I FREAKIN' LIKE the INTEGRATION, though. And until somebody shows me the same channel-lineup, the monthly price and other factors -- and I "like it," I'm happy with my cable-tv subscription, together with the telephone and internet access.

 

[corkyg]

All that aside, Windows Media Center is alive and well in my Windows Pro 8.1. Here's how it happened.

In October of 2012, I registered my Windows Pro 8.1 with Microsoft. For doing that, they gave me a free serial number for WMC and instructions on how to install it. They sent me this email:

"Windows : - Thank you for registering for our free Windows 8 Media Center Pack offer! **

Here’s your free Windows 8 Media Center Pack product key:

#####-#####-#####-#####-#####

Follow these steps to add Windows 8 Media Center Pack to your PC running Windows 8 Pro:

Swipe in from the right edge of the screen, and then tap Search. (If you’re using a mouse, point to the upper-right corner of the screen, and then click Search).

Enter add features in the search box, and then tap or click Settings.

Tap or click Add features to Windows 8.

Then tap or click I already have a product key.

Enter the product key, and then click Next.

Read the license terms, select the check box to accept the license terms, and then click Add features.

Your PC will restart automatically and Windows Media Center will be available for use. Learn more about Windows Media Center "

\WMC installed perfectly, and I soon learned to appreciate it. When I upgraded to 8.1 it was just as valid.

 

[sweenish]

Never really answered my questions. Looks like that's to be expected.

Pretty much every major cable channel has an app that gives you unfettered access to all of their programming so long as you are a subscriber. What you're describing sounds like it could be fixed with a cheap tablet and a chromecast/Apple TV/whatever.

I mean, if you don't want to upgrade, what does anyone here care? And if you want MS to see it, why not actually post it TO ONE OF THEIR OWN SITES?

And why is "save money" in quotes? It's kind of a simple fact that you would save money if you dropped a payment. There's no mystery there. And why use the word "bidnis"? Are you trying to get people to ignore you? You're also the first person I've ever seen try to justify cable TV by using the Internet arm of the company.

It's my opinion that paying for a cable subscription is an absolute waste of money. If I want to watch sports, I'll buy the annual pass.

But you just decided to whip up a really random rant about the fact that you won't upgrade to W10 because you have your systems the way you like them? What's the point, here?

At the end of day, with all the extra garbage you fill your posts with, this is barely an OS discussion.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think we're on the same page, Cork.

I held off even "trying" Win 8/8.1, based on what I'd read here in the forums. No dissing it, except from the remarks folks made about the interface, but anyone could change it to "classic Windows." It was touted maybe a year or more ago as an alternative for a "home server OS" by Maximum PC Mag. OF course, this is the first time that M$ offered "free upgrade" for the Win 10 version.

Just a little more than a year ago, a survey here in the forums -- it's probably buried in "Operating Systems" as a stale thread -- reported that 60% of forum members were still using Win 7.

I would guess that Win 8.1 is no less viable -- trouble-free -- whatever. But with the household systems, 4x configured with workstation OS and one with WHS, maintenance and other concerns (like the price of a 3x OEM install-disc bundle), we kept all working on version 7 SP 1.

So last I looked, Win 7 support ends in 2020, and support for Win 8 -- maybe 2023. That's "good enough." It might even be worth it to me to pick up some Win 8.1 OEMs as security against the future being discussed here.

Anyway, I think it's great that you like WMC. The only hitch -- again -- is "no Media Center with Win 10." If users install the upgrade download scheduled for July 29, it's supposed to tell us "Windows Media Center is not compatible" or won't work -- at which time, you have a choice to continue. I don't think there was any distinction made between the WMC of Win 7 and the WMC of Win 8 on that issue. I'll go back and check again, but if someone can correct me, this is the place to do it.

All that aside, Windows Media Center is alive and well in my Windows Pro 8.1. Here's how it happened.

In October of 2012, I registered my Windows Pro 8.1 with Microsoft. For doing that, they gave me a free serial number for WMC and instructions on how to install it. They sent me this email:

"Windows : - Thank you for registering for our free Windows 8 Media Center Pack offer! **

Here’s your free Windows 8 Media Center Pack product key:

#####-#####-#####-#####-#####

Follow these steps to add Windows 8 Media Center Pack to your PC running Windows 8 Pro:

Swipe in from the right edge of the screen, and then tap Search. (If you’re using a mouse, point to the upper-right corner of the screen, and then click Search).

Enter add features in the search box, and then tap or click Settings.

Tap or click Add features to Windows 8.

Then tap or click I already have a product key.

Enter the product key, and then click Next.

Read the license terms, select the check box to accept the license terms, and then click Add features.

Your PC will restart automatically and Windows Media Center will be available for use. Learn more about Windows Media Center "

\WMC installed perfectly, and I soon learned to appreciate it. When I upgraded to 8.1 it was just as valid.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Never really answered my questions. Looks like that's to be expected.

(1) Pretty much every major cable channel has an app that gives you unfettered access to all of their programming so long as you are a subscriber. What you're describing sounds like it could be fixed with a cheap tablet and a chromecast/Apple TV/whatever.

(2) I mean, if you don't want to upgrade, what does anyone here care? And if you want MS to see it, why not actually post it TO ONE OF THEIR OWN SITES?

And why is "save money" in quotes? It's kind of a simple fact that you would save money if you dropped a payment. There's no mystery there. (3) And why use the word "bidnis"? Are you trying to get people to ignore you? You're also the first person I've ever seen try to justify cable TV by using the Internet arm of the company.

(4) It's my opinion that paying for a cable subscription is an absolute waste of money. If I want to watch sports, I'll buy the annual pass.

(5) But you just decided to whip up a really random rant about the fact that you won't upgrade to W10 because you have your systems the way you like them? What's the point, here?

(6) At the end of day, with all the extra garbage you fill your posts with, this is barely an OS discussion.

(1) I can "look into" that, and will probably take some (more of my precious time) to do it.

(2) It had been a part of four successive versions of their OS. Suddenly, they're dropping it. Since it covers a lot more functionality than just "cable-tv integration," it is, in the simplest terms, a big letdown for the omission from the new OS. Perhaps the thread belongs in "Software for Windows" or "HTPC." But it is a matter of what had come bundled with the OS over the several generations I mentioned.

(3) You're kidding! Are you the spelling and colloquialism police? That was another thread, anyway -- not this one. And if you don't see my points, I don't see yours. As I said, what had always been "the cable company" is also the "internet" and "telephone" company. I get one monthly bill. I think . . . you're picking . . . fly-s*** . . . . out of pepper on this.

(4) So you encapsulate a representation of the entire TV viewing public? This isn't about sports, anyway. If you want to watch sports, by all means, buy your $60 ticket or annual pass. I think folks who want to drive 40 miles to the LA Coliseum or wherever have to be nuts -- for enduring the traffic.

(5) The point -- stated several times so far: The Media Center feature has multiple functions -- beyond just integrating cable, OTA and internet broadcast sources. It's in their inventory of software or OS features produced! It's absurd that they would just drop it.

(6) Garbage in the eye of the beholder. So . . . what's YOUR problem? Nitpicking those little nuggets out of the pepper-shaker?

 

[sweenish]

So, you're not going to look into anything. Figures. Or maybe you are, and you just have no clue how to use quotes.

Did not even address the second point, and after taking the time to number them. Not surprising.

Being taken seriously means writing seriously. I can't take you seriously. Makes it more difficult when you write like a middle schooler trying to be cool.

I said it was my opinion. I never it was a representative opinion. You're making assumptions and putting words into my mouth. And you don't get what I'm talking about in regards to the sports passes. If I said I would go to the actual game, I would have said that I'd buy ticket or season pass. We are discussing online options, right? I was referencing the online passes that the leagues sell. Besides, if it's not about sports, I'm hard pressed to think what it could possibly be about, then. You give no concrete examples. And sports is pretty much the only thing that can justify a cable subscription these days.

It's not absurd they would drop a feature that a fraction of a percent of their users cared about. Maybe they should have kept it as a paid add-on. But dropping it is not absurd in the least. It was costing them money for no good reason.

My problem is you. This thread is pointless, in the wrong place, and you even explicitly state that it's not for the crowd here, but for MS. And that's all without going into the fact that your stream-of-consciousness style of posting makes having an actual discussion nigh impossible in the first place.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

So, you're not going to look into anything. Figures. Or maybe you are, and you just have no clue how to use quotes.

Did not even address the second point, and after taking the time to number them. Not surprising.

Being taken seriously means writing seriously. I can't take you seriously. Makes it more difficult when you write like a middle schooler trying to be cool.

I said it was my opinion. I never it was a representative opinion. You're making assumptions and putting words into my mouth. And you don't get what I'm talking about in regards to the sports passes. If I said I would go to the actual game, I would have said that I'd buy ticket or season pass. We are discussing online options, right? I was referencing the online passes that the leagues sell. Besides, if it's not about sports, I'm hard pressed to think what it could possibly be about, then. You give no concrete examples. And sports is pretty much the only thing that can justify a cable subscription these days.

It's not absurd they would drop a feature that a fraction of a percent of their users cared about. Maybe they should have kept it as a paid add-on. But dropping it is not absurd in the least. It was costing them money for no good reason.

My problem is you. This thread is pointless, in the wrong place, and you even explicitly state that it's not for the crowd here, but for MS. And that's all without going into the fact that your stream-of-consciousness style of posting makes having an actual discussion nigh impossible in the first place.

" . . . fraction of a percent of users . . "

http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

" . . . costing them money . . . "

They aren't an local flower shop, restaurant, or any of myriad "perfectly competitive" businesses. [ I said "business-es."] Their founder retired with a fortune one time evaluated at something like $60 billion. With the degree of automation in "customer experience" and other areas, this is a drop in the bucket. Here, it's just my opinion, but "somebody new" is managing the store.

Do you want the last word? I give you the last word! We've certainly had a "discussion," haven't we? Ah! But it's all my "stream of consciousness!"

I gave up or simply quit worrying about being "a problem" to folks such as yourself a long time ago. It's not my problem. It's yours. I could speculate more about your underlying impetus for this meta-communication, but won't waste my time.

Or yours.

 

[ninaholic37]

So . . . what's YOUR problem? Nitpicking those little nuggets out of the pepper-shaker?

I think that sweenish, like me, has a strong Green personality, and you have more of a Blue personality. That describes why sweenish values clarity and accuracy while you prefer creativity and public speaking, among other things. If you both look up "Blue and Green personality compatibility" there are countless examples to show why your types won't get along in internet conversations. I think "Orange and Yellow personality compatibility" would be even worse though. What do you think? Am I spot on or completely off the mark? :biggrin:

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think that sweenish, like me, has a strong Green personality, and you have more of a Blue personality. That describes why sweenish values clarity and accuracy while you prefer creativity and public speaking, among other things. If you both look up "Blue and Green personality compatibility" there are countless examples to show why your types won't get along in internet conversations. I think "Orange and Yellow personality compatibility" would be even worse though. What do you think? Am I spot on or completely off the mark? :biggrin:

Is that some new paradigm for replacing the Briggs-Myers personality test? I wouldn't know. Of course, I "looked it up" at your mention of it. "True Colors . . . "

I have another theory, but there's no sense in pursuing it here.