My Two Cents

[cjohnson]

I figured I'd just say this:

1) The anti-French sentiment in this nation is flat out stupid. France doesn't jump up and down like our trained monkey so we call French fries "freedom fries"... Yeah, that makes lots of sense.

2) People die in war, I know that, but people who just sort of shrug that off as something that "just happens" I think use that as a really half-assed excuse for letting innocent people die. I understand that it's more or less unavoidable, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to limit that as much as possible.

3) I don't buy into the war for oil idea, I haven't seen any real evidence showing that it would be (both sides have propaganda, btw)

4) I saw on the news the other night where some guy had gotten back from Iraq in my state (NC) and his home town was having this big parade for him and what not. This guy had a broken foot, and nothing more from the looks of it, yet he was being given a parade. I mean, I'm glad that he's okay and all, but I think it's just really silly that people jump up and down about our soldiers when they come home.

I probably have more to say, but my brain is wandering at the moment, and I just wanted to say the things I just did.

 

[AndrewR]

1) The problems with France go far beyond expecting them to act like trained monkeys. Propping up a brutal dictator and fracturing the NATO alliance are two that come to mind.

2) Innocent people have always and will always die in war. It does happen. The U.S. military went to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualities, and we still get sh!t on over it. That's where the flippant attitude comes from.

4) In all likelihood, the guy was awarded the Purple Heart. Do you have one?

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
1) The problems with France go far beyond expecting them to act like trained monkeys. Propping up a brutal dictator and fracturing the NATO alliance are two that come to mind.

Sounds a lot like fracturing the UN, which many have dismissed as no big deal...

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: AndrewR
1) The problems with France go far beyond expecting them to act like trained monkeys. Propping up a brutal dictator and fracturing the NATO alliance are two that come to mind.

Sounds a lot like fracturing the UN, which many have dismissed as no big deal...

I agree...Russia, France and Germany should be held accountable for what they've done to the UN.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: AndrewR
1) The problems with France go far beyond expecting them to act like trained monkeys. Propping up a brutal dictator and fracturing the NATO alliance are two that come to mind.

Sounds a lot like fracturing the UN, which many have dismissed as no big deal...

I agree...Russia, France and Germany should be held accountable for what they've done to the UN.

Last I checked it was the US who defied the UN. France, Germany and Russia were prepared to take the UN's road of solving the conflict, the United States blatantly disregarded the will of the UN and decided to take matters into its own hands. Not to mention the outcries of "The UN is a worthless, dated organization" from conservatives everywhere...

 

[etech]

1) The anti-French sentiment in this nation is flat out stupid. France doesn't jump up and down like our trained monkey so we call French fries "freedom fries"... Yeah, that makes lots of sense.

You mean this Chirac?

Chirac Again Warns East Europeans to Toe EU Line

French President Jacques Chirac, who outraged east Europeans in February by slamming their support for the U.S.-led war on Iraq , warned the new EU members on Wednesday to do more to find common European stands.

Speaking as 15 EU member states and 10 mostly ex-communist new members signed a treaty sealing the expansion of the bloc, Chirac said the new Europe must clarify its political ambitions to avoid the splits that emerged over the war.

In his stunning tirade in February, Europe's leading opponent of the war denounced east European countries as "not very well behaved and reckless" for siding with Washington and declared they had "missed a great opportunity to shut up."
...


or the one that called Saddam a personal friend?

 

[Chris A]

Honestly we would have been much better off if we had not gone to the U.N.

Do you see Russia getting much flack over Chechnia...

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Last I checked it was the US who defied the UN. France, Germany and Russia were prepared to take the UN's road of solving the conflict,

They had billions of reasons to maintain his regime and did everything within their power save actually engaging our troops in Baghdad.

 

[cjohnson]

4) In all likelihood, the guy was awarded the Purple Heart. Do you have one?

No. Do you have a point?

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: cjohnson

4) In all likelihood, the guy was awarded the Purple Heart. Do you have one?

No. Do you have a point?

It's a hell of a lot better than spitting on them.

Why are you worried about it?

 

[cjohnson]

I don't recall saying anything about anyone spitting on anyone else. My point is that all this hoopla is going on for this one guy with a broken foot, while at the same time plenty more people (on both sides) are over there getting killed and getting injured much worse than that, and there's also so much more going on all over the world, that having a parade for this one guy and his foot seems a bit much. It's one thing to say "I respect you for being a part of the military", but this just seems silly.

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: cjohnson
I don't recall saying anything about anyone spitting on anyone else. My point is that all this hoopla is going on for this one guy with a broken foot, while at the same time plenty more people (on both sides) are over there getting killed and getting injured much worse than that, and there's also so much more going on all over the world, that having a parade for this one guy and his foot seems a bit much. It's one thing to say "I respect you for being a part of the military", but this just seems silly.

Why are you so jealous? Does his accomplishments and a display of appreciation from his friends and townspeople show you up so bad that you have to attempt to tear him down? You'll have to do a lot better than what you are in order to drag him down so low you'd be equals.

 

[Judgement]

Originally posted by: cjohnson
I figured I'd just say this:

1) The anti-French sentiment in this nation is flat out stupid. France doesn't jump up and down like our trained monkey so we call French fries "freedom fries"... Yeah, that makes lots of sense.

2) People die in war, I know that, but people who just sort of shrug that off as something that "just happens" I think use that as a really half-assed excuse for letting innocent people die. I understand that it's more or less unavoidable, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to limit that as much as possible.

3) I don't buy into the war for oil idea, I haven't seen any real evidence showing that it would be (both sides have propaganda, btw)

4) I saw on the news the other night where some guy had gotten back from Iraq in my state (NC) and his home town was having this big parade for him and what not. This guy had a broken foot, and nothing more from the looks of it, yet he was being given a parade. I mean, I'm glad that he's okay and all, but I think it's just really silly that people jump up and down about our soldiers when they come home.

I probably have more to say, but my brain is wandering at the moment, and I just wanted to say the things I just did.

1) If you think the Anti-French sentiments are bad here, go to France and listen to them talk about the US.... or almost any other country for that matter. Changing the name of French Fries, albeit stupid, is nothing compared to desecrating the graves of those who died in liberating France in WWII.

2) No one has just accepted casualties as something that just happens, each person has been mourned for their death. The disputes arrose when anti-war people used Iraqi civilian deaths as a foothold for their argument that we should not be at war with Iraq, while the pro-war people countered with the argument that the number of deaths in comparison to any other war ever waged on the face of the earth is astronically low because of the care taken by the US, and the precision of their weapons. A point also could be made that more people would die under Saddam's rule then because of the war.

3) Although the oil argument is mostly unfounded, and definately not a major factor of the war, it undoubtedly has had some influence in things.

4) Why do you not think the soldiers' return should be celebrated? Although its my belief that those injured should not necessarily receive special attention when compared to those who aren't injured... their return should definately be celebrated. It marks the end of the war, assures they now will not die in the war, not to mention the soldiers are all volunteers who put their life on the line for others and for you whether you believe it or not. They volunteered to defend our country and our beliefs as a nation with their lives, if that is not worth celebrating and congradulating I don't know what is.

 

[Zebo]

I don't buy into the war for oil idea

I think you don't understand what meant by some when they say this. It means if Iraq and the region did'nt have oil and the region was'nt such a dangerous/perilous with Saddam running the show in Iraq we would'nt be as attentive to the problems over there. Oil and it's price affects out economy more than any commodity, and it affects our national security. We must see it not highjacked by one man or a few men. If Saddam eventually had some serious nukes.. game is over...He wins...He is the most powerful man in the ME and maybe the world. He would own Kuwait, and the oil rich feilds of SA and little could be done w/o massive casullties and perhaps the destruction of Israel. There are tons of Saddams in Africa but we don't care (as Much).

Edit: So looked at in this light I say.... SO, whats wrong with a war against Saddam and his henchmen for the worlds oil? He did'nt earn it. and has only used his gift for malace, destruction and personel gain.

 

[cjohnson]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: cjohnson
I don't recall saying anything about anyone spitting on anyone else. My point is that all this hoopla is going on for this one guy with a broken foot, while at the same time plenty more people (on both sides) are over there getting killed and getting injured much worse than that, and there's also so much more going on all over the world, that having a parade for this one guy and his foot seems a bit much. It's one thing to say "I respect you for being a part of the military", but this just seems silly.

Why are you so jealous? Does his accomplishments and a display of appreciation from his friends and townspeople show you up so bad that you have to attempt to tear him down? You'll have to do a lot better than what you are in order to drag him down so low you'd be equals.

You obviously missed my point. I never said this guy shouldn't be celebrated/respected, but to have a friggin' parade for just one individual, when so many more are still Iraq risking their lives, seems pointless to me. How much money and time did it cost to put something like this together? Couldn't that money/time be better spent? And I flat out disagree with your last sentence, about the equals thing. Why would I try to "drag" anyone else down? I never verbally attacked the man, I have nothing against him at all, I'm just against the people's reaction. I think if I was in Iraq and came back and someone wanted to throw a parade for me, I'd be embarassed to accept it, but that's just me.