My Trooper Noise-Obsession Fever Has Broken -- My Long Summer Of Retro-fit And Fret Is Over . . .

[BonzaiDuck]

So.

I posted several threads this summer on this old orphaned SUV. Spent lots of time upgrading the audio, adding a backup/rear-view camera and other related things.

Then, very recently, I was troubleshooting "a noise", posting a thread on AC compressors and another on Reman Alternators.

The latest news: I finally got under the car to put my stethoscope on the alternator -- by process of elimination, the last bolt-on engine item suspect for "the noise". Then, I put the stethoscope on the front end of the oil pan.

The cyclic clatter I might hear -- then and again, or when the AC would cut in and add stress to the crankshaft -- seems to be coming from the lower engine.

I'd run the car down to my mechanic about 10 days ago, explaining all this and asking him to look around for a Reman alternator with above-spec amperage rating. I went back to see him this morning. When I get these "consultations", I always drop $20 on him to subsidize his lunch, since I'm taking his time.

The insight which he offered dismissed my worries about the engine going south any time soon. "190,000 miles? Old engines develop noises. If it's not affecting drive-ability, nothing to worry about any time soon . . . "

Someone else -- maybe Mindless1 -- argued that the car has little resale value: I'm guessing at most $1,000 myself. His wisdom dismissed the idea of replacing an alternator on such a vehicle for $450. In my view, if I'm spending less than $1,000 per year on maintenance and repair, that's six times less than the annual sum of 0% car payments for a vehicle deemed "equivalent replacement".

Except for the low-volume cyclic clatter when the AC is running, the engine doesn't shake -- runs -- purrs -- like a kitty-cat.

So -- maybe in a few years, I'll revisit this matter of what to do with it. I might just drop in a reman engine -- if it ever needs one.

We get emotionally attached to our old vehicles, and we enjoy them! A little rattling that I can't hear from the driver's seat may detract from the enjoyment, but not that much. I just have to accommodate myself to the fact that my old vintage ride is not perfectly "purr-feck".

 

[pauldun170]

Your Trooper have the 3.2?
How is you oil pressure?
If it were mine, I'd tell my self to drop the oil pan and check to see if everything is where it should be but then I would probably procrastinate on it since the Trooper might require all sorts of shenanigans just to get to it.

Timing belt tensioner in good shape?

 

[Greenman]

So.

I posted several threads this summer on this old orphaned SUV. Spent lots of time upgrading the audio, adding a backup/rear-view camera and other related things.

Then, very recently, I was troubleshooting "a noise", posting a thread on AC compressors and another on Reman Alternators.

The latest news: I finally got under the car to put my stethoscope on the alternator -- by process of elimination, the last bolt-on engine item suspect for "the noise". Then, I put the stethoscope on the front end of the oil pan.

The cyclic clatter I might hear -- then and again, or when the AC would cut in and add stress to the crankshaft -- seems to be coming from the lower engine.

I'd run the car down to my mechanic about 10 days ago, explaining all this and asking him to look around for a Reman alternator with above-spec amperage rating. I went back to see him this morning. When I get these "consultations", I always drop $20 on him to subsidize his lunch, since I'm taking his time.

The insight which he offered dismissed my worries about the engine going south any time soon. "190,000 miles? Old engines develop noises. If it's not affecting drive-ability, nothing to worry about any time soon . . . "

Someone else -- maybe Mindless1 -- argued that the car has little resale value: I'm guessing at most $1,000 myself. His wisdom dismissed the idea of replacing an alternator on such a vehicle for $450. In my view, if I'm spending less than $1,000 per year on maintenance and repair, that's six times less than the annual sum of 0% car payments for a vehicle deemed "equivalent replacement".

Except for the low-volume cyclic clatter when the AC is running, the engine doesn't shake -- runs -- purrs -- like a kitty-cat.

So -- maybe in a few years, I'll revisit this matter of what to do with it. I might just drop in a reman engine -- if it ever needs one.

We get emotionally attached to our old vehicles, and we enjoy them! A little rattling that I can't hear from the driver's seat may detract from the enjoyment, but not that much. I just have to accommodate myself to the fact that my old vintage ride is not perfectly "purr-feck".

Just went through a similar thought process with my wife's Escape that turns 19 in a couple months. Over 200k trouble free miles, still looks great and runs great. But it has an oil leak that drips on the catalytic converter, so it always smells of burning oil. It also recently developed a water leak somewhere down on the right side of the engine, and probably needs a couple tie rod ends replaced. Reality is the needed repairs would probably cost me less than $2k maybe 2.5, and I end up with a 19 year old car that will probably run for at least another 50k miles. But it's still a 19 year old car with 200k on the clock, and the possibility of something major breaking.
I decided to replace it, and I'm honestly not sure if that was the right decision, but it was an easy decision.

 

[mindless1]

The thing about the $450 alternator is, putting it in context. If you are not putting many miles on the vehicle, what does it gain you to pay almost triple the price for an alternator that in all likelihood, will have over 1/2 its life remaining when the vehicle ends up at a junkyard?

It's your money to spend however you like. I can only tell you that my oldest SUV is still on the road, with many newer and upgraded parts, spending a fraction of what you plan. I do have a $100-something alternator in mine (with a lifetime warranty) but would not take it on long trips - not because of the alternator, rather because there are a hundred different things that can fail on a vehicle that old, and the "equivalent replacement" would be the same thing, same age vehicle still running, while the thousands you could have saved on repairs, buys you something newer with more years until the same amount and cost of repairs are needed again. I suppose you can do it either way but at a certain age the amount of repairs starts to increase and the low hanging fruit like an alternator, is among the least expensive things to put into it.

You should look at it like an investment. For example, would you buy $1K in gold, and plan on hiring a guard to watch over it for $800 a year for 5 years? Is the $5K total spent to upkeep $1K in gold, the equivalent replacement of $1K in gold? No. The gold is not that rare, you can get more of it, and there are other used vehicles. Keeping what you have is good, if familiar with it and doing your own repairs cost effectively, but not so much if it costs more to keep on the road than a newer used vehicle would in TCO.

IMO, once a vehicle costs more per year to upkeep than its depreciation that year, and this keeps happening year after year, it is time to start looking for a newer vehicle if it is a primary use vehicle, OR to look at ways to economize the repairs so they fall below the depreciation rate and bank the savings... nothing lasts forever.

Sometimes I watch the various car restoration shows, and can appreciate the effort, but these are older vehicles that don't have custom plastics, rubbers, and stick with the basics that were abandoned by the '90's.

 

[Paperdoc]

Another YES. We get plenty snow here, plus packed snow that's similar to ice, plus real ice, bare pavement, etc. I'm in northern Ontario on the north shore of Lake Superior.

I used all-seasons for decades, and slowly resolved to get snow tires as extras. Finally did that when I bought a used Mazda 3 sedan four years ago and it came with summer tires on alloy rims plus a set of winters on steel rims. So I do my own switching spring and fall. They definitely make a difference in traction all around - acceleration, braking, steering, getting un-stuck from snow.

There are four sedans in our driving family, all front-wheel-drive. My son's old Acura came with snow tires only as a used car, and it was clear that car did better in winter than our others on all-seasons. A couple years later my wife's Corolla needed tires so i put winters on that, and it certainly makes it better in winter. Both those cars are low-use for short trips around our small city, almost no highway driving, so I do not worry about those tires wearing down on high-speed trips on dry highways. I keep winter tires on them all year. My daughter's Accent has all-seasons still, and it is clearly the poorest for winter traction.

 

[mindless1]

Another YES. We get plenty snow here, plus packed snow that's similar to ice, plus real ice, bare pavement, etc. I'm in northern Ontario on the north shore of Lake Superior.

I used all-seasons for decades, and slowly resolved to get snow tires as extras. Finally did that when I bought a used Mazda 3 sedan four years ago and it came with summer tires on alloy rims plus a set of winters on steel rims. So I do my own switching spring and fall. They definitely make a difference in traction all around - acceleration, braking, steering, getting un-stuck from snow.

There are four sedans in our driving family, all front-wheel-drive. My son's old Acura came with snow tires only as a used car, and it was clear that car did better in winter than our others on all-seasons. A couple years later my wife's Corolla needed tires so i put winters on that, and it certainly makes it better in winter. Both those cars are low-use for short trips around our small city, almost no highway driving, so I do not worry about those tires wearing down on high-speed trips on dry highways. I keep winter tires on them all year. My daughter's Accent has all-seasons still, and it is clearly the poorest for winter traction.

I suspect that you meant to post this in that other topic about tires.
Been there, done this...

 

[Torn Mind]

Well, you can try different oils and even mod the viscosities. Sometimes that can cure or reduce noise. After trying Pennzoil Platinum, I believe that one is the best for a Toyota Corolla/Matrix because it's so smooth for the first 100 miles after the oil is changed. (nearing 200k, 13 years old, but certain not a dead engine yet).

(I will probably trigger "purr-feck" syndrome with this comment)

 

[Torn Mind]

The thing about the $450 alternator is, putting it in context. If you are not putting many miles on the vehicle, what does it gain you to pay almost triple the price for an alternator that in all likelihood, will have over 1/2 its life remaining when the vehicle ends up at a junkyard?

It's your money to spend however you like. I can only tell you that my oldest SUV is still on the road, with many newer and upgraded parts, spending a fraction of what you plan. I do have a $100-something alternator in mine (with a lifetime warranty) but would not take it on long trips - not because of the alternator, rather because there are a hundred different things that can fail on a vehicle that old, and the "equivalent replacement" would be the same thing, same age vehicle still running, while the thousands you could have saved on repairs, buys you something newer with more years until the same amount and cost of repairs are needed again. I suppose you can do it either way but at a certain age the amount of repairs starts to increase and the low hanging fruit like an alternator, is among the least expensive things to put into it.

You should look at it like an investment. For example, would you buy $1K in gold, and plan on hiring a guard to watch over it for $800 a year for 5 years? Is the $5K total spent to upkeep $1K in gold, the equivalent replacement of $1K in gold? No. The gold is not that rare, you can get more of it, and there are other used vehicles. Keeping what you have is good, if familiar with it and doing your own repairs cost effectively, but not so much if it costs more to keep on the road than a newer used vehicle would in TCO.

IMO, once a vehicle costs more per year to upkeep than its depreciation that year, and this keeps happening year after year, it is time to start looking for a newer vehicle, OR to look at ways to economize the repairs so they fall below the depreciation rate.

Depreciation reflects reality in the rust bucket states.

It still matters in his place of SoCal solely because "the big one"(aka major accident) can always be right around the corner. But if the big one never happens, the Trooper basically is as useful as whatever basic SUV is on the market until he dies, the engine dies, the tranny dies, the exhaust becomes too noisy, or his cat emissions is toast in the People's Republic of California.

However, it is true "purr-feck" syndrome does lead to the temptation of repair binging, often unnecessarily. Changing an alternator makes no sense in SoCal because the killer that is moisture is not a severe problem.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just to congenially answer all the recent posts on this, I apologize for a proliferation of threads, but the MYSTERY IS RESOLVED. The harmonic balancer -- center of all the pulley belts -- is wearing out. So when stress is put on it from the AC compressor (most likely biggest stress among all the pulley belts) -- it rattles. It rattles a little bit sometimes when the AC is off.

We caught it before it becomes a problem. Right now, it's "just a noise". It will become a problem, and at least increase the likelihood and then the certainty that a belt will break. I outlined the solution in another thread, but it's maybe a $180 part, plus the repair-shop markup, plus about $240 in labor.

Now -- about the stocks and flows of assets, money and expenses. I've got a spreadsheet on this car with a pretty good detailed summary of every repair outlay, parts replacement and so on -- beginning with the initial purchase of the vehicle as-is from the previous owner.

Over that time -- 19 years -- the vehicle has cost me about $5,000 less than the original MSRP as a 26-year-old vehicle purchased in 1995. On average, this means the average expense per year including annualized purchase price has been a little over $1,000 per annum. The insurance costs for a new car over the first six years is at least double or more of what I've spent -- at most $80/month. Over the 19 years, I think I've saved over $12,000 in insurance premium expenses.

Then, there's the matter of environmental regulation in California. I still think I'm good for the duration. They won't stop selling internal combustion engines until 2035 by Newsom's decree, and the car will continue to fly through emissions tests every two years with gold stars. Maybe -- I might need to replace exhaust parts, a heated-oxygen sensor -- something like that, but nothing major. There would need to be a pretty draconian law passed to prohibit my use of the vehicle anytime soon.

Given all the info in the spreadsheet and especially the mileage differences and outlays over the last ten years, the annual expectation of repair costs for the next (future) five years could be in the range of between $200 and $500 per year -- the upper limit maybe much less likely. I'm doing my own oil-changes, radiator flushes, battery replacements, adding up to enough savings that anything else is a wash.

Like someone said, the only worry would be having someone total the car, or totaling it myself. Looking at the accounting depreciation (as opposed to use-life depreciation), I figure there's maybe $4,000 to $7,000 left in the car that's at risk. But I only drive it between 2,000 and 3,000 miles per year, so the risk or likelihood of such an accident is considerably less than for most people in their daily driver rides.

So I'll stand by my assertion -- despite the fact that 2021 money will pay for a harmonic balancer replacement of about $550 -- that I essentially have a "free ride" here. It's a "stand-up ride" because it's still beautiful, still runs like a top, has all the luxury features, totally upgraded electronically into the 21st century as "The Android Trooper" with night-vision, double-Bluetooth and so on.

Put on the Stones' "Forty Licks -- CD #2" --- "Happy!" "I need a girl [ride] . . that makes me hap-py!"