My tires are filled with nitrogen now.

[simms]

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
nitrogen will leak from your tires slower than air, as the molecules are larger. Also, it doesn't change volume as air does, so the pressure will remain constant when tires are cold and warm. Should result in better gas mileage and more even wear.

So, since normal air is around 80% nitrogen, using 100% nitrogen changes that much eh? It's the same pressure regardless of temperature you say?

No offense, but do you have any info showing that?

I'm too lazy to google, but what he said is quite true.

Filling tires with nitrogen was a practice that used to be used only in racing, because as the tires got hot as the cars went around the track, the air pressure wouldn't build up as much, which made handling more predictable..

This is almost negligable if anything. Ideal gas law anyone? But if you are assuming non-ideal conditions, then yes, the pressure is different.

A few corrections:
The overall composition of air will also be higher. The "molecule" size won't make a big difference. A few angstroms, if any. Add on CO2, and a few other molecules and the size of the molecules has nothing to do with it. (CO2 is larger than N2, btw).

The reason why the tires don't get as hot is because N2 is an noble gas.

Looking at my Thermodynamics textbook, the Cp of N2 is 1.045 at 400K. The cp of air is 1.014 (Kj/kg K) at the same temp of 400K. The Cp or Heat capacity dictates how much energy the compound can 'absorb'... and because N2 is higher, that part about the "tires got hot as the cars went around the track" is true. The second reason is due to the fact that air has a higher moisture content (due to impurities in the atmosphere, humidity, etc).

The main reason why N2 is used in tires is due to the composition: simply put, it's more pure than air and will have less fluctuations under a greater number of conditions.

 

Originally posted by: Sphexi
One

Two

Three

:thumbsup:Thanks

 

[NeoPTLD]

Nitrogen fill has clear benefit in some applications, such as filler gas in potato chip bags. Having 99% nitrogen fill over regular air has a significant effect on maintaining freshness by reducing oxidation.

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
Link to article about benefits

Your article mentions NOTHING about the inferences that you've stated above.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: trmiv
We use nitrogen in the tires on our race car. It helps reduce the amount of pressure gain we get as the tires heat, and helps the tires stay more consistent. I can speak on this with actual experience. When using air, the pressure gain during a race, is always more than with nitrogen. Thus with nitrogen, we don't have to start the race with as low of a pressure as we did with air, helping handling at the beginning of a race.

This is true...but in racing...small amounts of pressure changes can make a big difference, and you are dealing with much higher temperatures, and much shorter tire life.

Good explanation...

The biggest reason to use compressed nitrogen *in a racing tire* is that it's dry, compared to typical compressed air.

When a tire heats up, the air and any moisture inside it heats up as well. When the moisture inside the tire heats up, the water molecules move further apart, increasing the tire pressure. By removing this moisture, the pressure stays more consistent over the entire heat cycle of the tire.

On a racecar, a 1/4 psi difference can change the handling of a car significantly. The humidity inside a tire does not have to be zero, but if it is not at least kept consistent from one set of tires to another, to equal a 1/4 psi increase in the current set, a 1 psi change may need to be made in another set because of the differing humidities.

Is nitrogen completely necessary? No. Air can be dried using inline air dryers and such. However, it's much easier to keep tire humidity consistent when all the tires can be filled from the same 1500 psi bottle of nitrogen delivered to the shop.

As far as race tires go, this is the reason to use nitrogen. Because of the short life of a race tire, how much air permiates out of a tire over a year is of no concern.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

 

[Insane3D]

Well, can't argue with that.

I suppose air is 100% oxygen then?

 

[RU482]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
ATTENTION EVERYONE :

Why not fill tires with Helium, that way your car will be lighter and that will definetly increase car effeciency plus it's an inert gas so it's safer than nitrogen , right ?

even better, if you're anal enough to car what element you are filling your tires with, just fill them with hydrogen

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Well, can't argue with that.

I suppose air is 100% oxygen then?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

What is air mainly comprised of?

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
Link to article about benefits

Your article mentions NOTHING about the inferences that you've stated above.

are you high? I said

nitrogen will leak from your tires slower than air, as the molecules are larger. Also, it doesn't change volume as air does, so the pressure will remain constant when tires are cold and warm. Should result in better gas mileage and more even wear.

Each of those points is covered in that article.

The real benefit here is that the lack of fluctuation and pressure loss by using nitrogen means the average driver that never checks his tire pressure doesn't have to worry about driving on undder-inflated tires, which decrease fuel economy and increase tire wear. You could regularly check your tire pressure and keep it regulated to do the same, but MOST people don't even own a tire gauge.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

What is air mainly comprised of?

air is 78.1% nitrogen (contrary to the 80% someone stated before) and 20.9% oxygen, with the remaining 1% being other gases.

 

[Insane3D]

OMG 80%...I can't believe someone used 80% in place of 78%!

WTF is up with people around here?!?!?

:|

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
Link to article about benefits

Your article mentions NOTHING about the inferences that you've stated above.

are you high? I said

nitrogen will leak from your tires slower than air, as the molecules are larger. Also, it doesn't change volume as air does, so the pressure will remain constant when tires are cold and warm. Should result in better gas mileage and more even wear.

Each of those points is covered in that article.

The real benefit here is that the lack of fluctuation and pressure loss by using nitrogen means the average driver that never checks his tire pressure doesn't have to worry about driving on undder-inflated tires, which decrease fuel economy and increase tire wear. You could regularly check your tire pressure and keep it regulated to do the same, but MOST people don't even own a tire gauge.

This one is not: "so the pressure will remain constant when tires are cold and warm."

Pressure of any gas will never be the same when there is a fluxuation in temperature. Ex: Pressure at 0K is not equal to P at 273K is not equal to to 400K.

But yes, the other points are mentioned there.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

What is air mainly comprised of?

air is 78.1% nitrogen (contrary to the 80% someone stated before) and 20.9% oxygen, with the remaining 1% being other gases.

And now where are N and O on the periodic table?

And how does this affect PV=nRT?

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
OMG 80%...I can't believe someone used 80% in place of 78%!

WTF is up with people around here?!?!?

:|

I really could give 2 flying fvcks...someone asked about the issue, I pointed out the reported benefits with claims supporting it. The evidence may be anecdotal, he benefits minor, but all in all, the apparent benefit could help people save fuel and tire wear.

Not everything has a direct academic benefit. Will changing daylight savings time by a few weeks in itsself save energy? No....but the change in peoples habits and practices during those few weeks will. A related, but indirect benefit. Same thing here.

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

What is air mainly comprised of?

air is 78.1% nitrogen (contrary to the 80% someone stated before) and 20.9% oxygen, with the remaining 1% being other gases.

And now where are N and O on the periodic table?

And how does this affect PV=nRT?

Oh! Oh! Pick me! They're beside each other.

How? Hardly.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
Link to article about benefits

Your article mentions NOTHING about the inferences that you've stated above.

are you high? I said

nitrogen will leak from your tires slower than air, as the molecules are larger. Also, it doesn't change volume as air does, so the pressure will remain constant when tires are cold and warm. Should result in better gas mileage and more even wear.

Each of those points is covered in that article.

The real benefit here is that the lack of fluctuation and pressure loss by using nitrogen means the average driver that never checks his tire pressure doesn't have to worry about driving on undder-inflated tires, which decrease fuel economy and increase tire wear. You could regularly check your tire pressure and keep it regulated to do the same, but MOST people don't even own a tire gauge.

This one is not: "so the pressure will remain constant when tires are cold and warm."

Pressure of any gas will never be the same when there is a fluxuation in temperature. Ex: Pressure at 0K is not equal to P at 273K is not equal to to 400K.

But yes, the other points are mentioned there.

you've got me...I shouldn't have dumbed it down and said constant, but "will undergo a lesser differential in pressure". Forgive me.

 

[Insane3D]

Let it be known I give exactly four flying fvcks...

That is all...

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

What is air mainly comprised of?

air is 78.1% nitrogen (contrary to the 80% someone stated before) and 20.9% oxygen, with the remaining 1% being other gases.

And now where are N and O on the periodic table?

And how does this affect PV=nRT?

Oh! Oh! Pick me! They're beside each other.

How? Hardly.

If you pricks want to get so technical and precise, then explain to me how "hardly"="none"

It may be a SMALL effect, but it is one all the same.

you physics nerds should know that even 0.00000001 != 0

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ok smart guy...

Pressure will remain the same...
Molecules are larger...

You're turn to disprove thousands of years of human intelligence.

Nitrogen is inert...it does not expand and contract with temperature change to the same degree as air. That is a fact.

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. Fact.

Nothing to do with human intelligence beyond your apparent lack thereof.

What is air mainly comprised of?

air is 78.1% nitrogen (contrary to the 80% someone stated before) and 20.9% oxygen, with the remaining 1% being other gases.

And now where are N and O on the periodic table?

And how does this affect PV=nRT?

Oh! Oh! Pick me! They're beside each other.

How? Hardly.

If you pricks want to get so technical and precise, then explain to me how "hardly"="none"

It may be a SMALL effect, but it is one all the same.

you physics nerds should know that even 0.00000001 != 0

I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how N is an "inert" gas.

I mean.....it boggles the mind. Please have your tire buddy go back to school.

-edit- I bet your buddy charges for filling with nitrogen? How about you expound on the benefits of monster cable while we're at it.

 

[eflat]

Originally posted by: Muadib
I bought a set of tires from Costco last night, and after waiting over 90 minutes, I didn't look at them. I just wanted to go home. So today I get up to get a haircut, and to pickup the latest Batman DVD. I go out to my car, and see these green things on each wheel. I look closer, and see that its the caps on the valves.

I'm like WTF!! These hideous things must go, and after getting my cut, I head back to Costco. When I get there, I go straight to the tire bay, really pissed. I must have been pretty loud, because 2 guys come running over. I say what's the deal with the neon green caps? I want black ones now!!!! One of them runs off to find some, and the other guy says they're for safety. I'm like safety? Safety from what? He then says so someone working on your car doesn't put air in your tires. You have nitrogen in your tires.

I'm like whaatt?!? He says yeah, it better than air because they stay inflated, and don't go down. Ohhh I say, then I better keep the green ones then. The other guy gives me the black caps anyway, and I go on my way to Walmart.

Now someone please tell me, when did they start doing this with cars?

i just got new tires and costco and i didn't get an nitrogen

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: spidey07

I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how N is an "inert" gas.

I mean.....it boggles the mind. Please have your tire buddy go back to school.

Harvard says nitrogen is INERT

Wikipedia says mostly INERT

These guys say it's INERT

This website says it's INERT while discussing this very issue

This site says it is INERT

Encarta says it's INERT

Web Elements says it's generally <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b"><b"><b">INERT">http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/N/key.html</a>

Environmental protection Agency seems to think it's INERT



Need I go on to prove your stupidity? Is your mind still boggled? WHO needs to go back to school?



Oh, and monster cables suck. You should hook up your Bose system with something better.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Harvard says nitrogen is INERT

Wikipedia says mostly INERT

These guys say it's INERT

This website says it's INERT while discussing this very issue

This site says it is INERT

Encarta says it's INERT

Web Elements says it's generally <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b">INERT">http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/N/key.html</a>

Environmental protection Agency seems to think it's INERT



Need I go on to prove your stupidity?

pwn3d? lol

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: spidey07

I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how N is an "inert" gas.

I mean.....it boggles the mind. Please have your tire buddy go back to school.

Harvard says nitrogen is INERT

Wikipedia says mostly INERT

These guys say it's INERT

This website says it's INERT while discussing this very issue

This site says it is INERT

Encarta says it's INERT

Web Elements says it's generally <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b"><b"><b"><b">INERT">http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/N/key.html</a>

Environmental protection Agency seems to think it's INERT



Need I go on to prove your stupidity? Is your mind still boggled? WHO needs to go back to school?



Oh, and monster cables suck. You should hook up your Bose system with something better.

Never taken organic chemistry have we?