And on the flip side, anyone who claims Bush is a liar should also claim Moore is a liar unless they are a hypocrite, according to your sort of logic.
So is M. Moore a liar?
And once again, Bush's actual words have been dissected to prove the point that the information that he is spoon-feeding us is completely wrong on many/all subjects.
Moore is a complete idiologue.....that alone, doesn't make what he is saying incorrect. As JJ320 pointed out, the right "debunks" his film's inaccuracy in things that are completely irrelavant to the message that is being sold. Simply put.....if you want to say that MM is a complete party tool, take comfort in knowing that you are right. HOWEVER, if you want to call him a liar, you have to come with a little more proof that his message is wrong than he used a picture from a different event when talking about someone.
When people talk about Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrior in MLB and show a picture of him in a suit instead of his uniform, does that mean that they are lying about him actually breaking the color barrior? NO. The information is just as accurate even though the picture is taken from a different event.
Shades,
Bush is a liar, MM is a liar, I'm a liar and you are a liar. Here's the difference: MM made some money from it, Bush has made a lot of money from his lies too but he also contributed to - the loss of over 2,000 American lives, countless Iraqi civilian lives, over 20,000 American wounded, countless Iraqi wounded, currently over $200 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars, America's reputation ruined worldwide, added to the terrorist threat, and left our armed forces stressed and weakened (as stated by BBond). I'll take MM's hypocrisy any day over that.
Wow, I think you wrapped every talking point up into one little ball. Oh wait, you forgot Halliburtion/oil, PNAC, Bush's dad. But another thing you forgot was the truth. Bush's supposed lies didn't get us into the war, Saddam's lies did. Our intel may have failed to flush out those lies but for you to make the claim that Bush fabricated these lies or knew the intel was false is quite a stretch even handicapping for your obvious anti-Republican war stance.
Keep telling yourself Bush lied if you wish. It doesn't make it true however.
Complete and utter horsesh*t!
Saddam's lies were being exposed by UNSCOM inspectors but Bush's agenda wouldn't allow them the time that they needed to make each and every conclusion that they had drawn to that point in time known fact. Once Bush's lies were completely sold to us, he invaded and ended up proving the UNSCOM inspectors correct. He had CURRENT, ACCURATE information from people on the ground without anything to gain from a war or avoidance of a war.....unlike Curveball and Chalabi.
He chose to ignore sound intel and relied on out-dated, suspect intel instead and never once did he tell the American public that there are serious reservations about whether Iraq had WMD. He always stated it as fact. That is a lie of omission. And that is the truth.
Keep trying to revise history. :laugh: I'm sure the electorate will jump on your bandwagon *this* time although didn't the last few election cycles. :laugh:
I never did that. How exactly did you leap to that conclusion? Is your logic that bad, or is it your reading?
OK, you're right, Bush has never lied.
Sorry, I take everything back. I guess people throughout his life lied to him and he was just going on that information and passing it along. That leaves him unaccountable for anything he has ever done. I forgot about that, thanks for reminding me.
Halliburton is Dick C's baby, not Bush. And George Sr. wasn't a bad guy. Just for the record, I'm not anti-Republican. I just think if somebody is not doing a good job, they need to be called out. It's not anti-Republican or anti-Bush, it's Pro-America. I want what's best for this country and I'm sure you do too. We just have differing opinions on how to get there. You feel GWB is on the right track and I don't. We can agree to disagree.
Sorry, I take everything back. I guess people throughout his life lied to him and he was just going on that information and passing it along. That leaves him unaccountable for anything he has ever done. I forgot about that, thanks for reminding me. Halliburton is Dick C's baby, not Bush. And George Sr. wasn't a bad guy. Just for the record, I'm not anti-Republican. I just think if somebody is not doing a good job, they need to be called out. It's not anti-Republican or anti-Bush, it's Pro-America. I want what's best for this country and I'm sure you do too. We just have differing opinions on how to get there. You feel GWB is on the right track and I don't. We can agree to disagree.
Originally posted by: rartech
OK, you're right, Bush has never lied.
Halliburton is Dick C's baby, not Bush. And George Sr. wasn't a bad guy. Just for the record, I'm not anti-Republican. I just think if somebody is not doing a good job, they need to be called out. It's not anti-Republican or anti-Bush, it's Pro-America. I want what's best for this country and I'm sure you do too. We just have differing opinions on how to get there. You feel GWB is on the right track and I don't. We can agree to disagree.
The discussion was about the war and the intelligence.
Regardless of the actual outcome of the weapons situation, you and other have accused Bush of lying. I have seen no proof of that claim as none has been offered. I do see people using what we know now to project back to 2002 & 2003, but that doesn't prove anything was a "lie".
My support of Bush or removing Saddam from power has anything to do with what a lie is.
your so obtuse shadow. This war was sold to us, we were made to believe it was a last option. We know that is not true, Rice even admitted that this was a war of choice. Therefore, if this was a war of choice, and we were led to believe it was a last option, we were clearly lied to.
No. Not "us" or "we". Maybe you feel that way but don't claim that everyone was.
Every war is optional. Sorry you aren't intelligent enough to understand that - or atleast weren't leading up to the war. Some of understand why it was necessary and some of you will never allow yourself to understand, or atleast admit it.
That's basically it. You are going to continue to believe whatever you wish and I will still know why it was necessary and just despite your noise about WMDs or lying.
Moore does not use facts. I understand why you ignore his own admissions. It merely proves his point about his audience. For example, he says they are stupid and they love him for it.
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: rartech
OK, you're right, Bush has never lied.
Halliburton is Dick C's baby, not Bush. And George Sr. wasn't a bad guy. Just for the record, I'm not anti-Republican. I just think if somebody is not doing a good job, they need to be called out. It's not anti-Republican or anti-Bush, it's Pro-America. I want what's best for this country and I'm sure you do too. We just have differing opinions on how to get there. You feel GWB is on the right track and I don't. We can agree to disagree.
The discussion was about the war and the intelligence.
Regardless of the actual outcome of the weapons situation, you and other have accused Bush of lying. I have seen no proof of that claim as none has been offered. I do see people using what we know now to project back to 2002 & 2003, but that doesn't prove anything was a "lie".
My support of Bush or removing Saddam from power has anything to do with what a lie is.
No, the original discussion was about MM. You and others claim he is a liar and a hypocrite.
Bush and his people did the same thing you say MM did when pushing for this war - half truths, giving only the information they wanted you to hear, splicing, cutting and pasting things, making claims they could not back up, all in an effort to sell this war.
So give me a straight answer - if MM is a liar and a hypocrite, is GWB one too?
Whites? Or Jews? I'm not exactly sure. But it certainly wasn't blacks! Sure, they've been opressed terribly for the past 500 years or so, but that doesn't hold a candle to what the jews (Persecuted for MILLENIA, between 6-8 million killed in the 1900s alone), or whites (42 million or more killed in WW2 during the Soviet Union?). Or maybe the Chinese (Mao might have killed 100 MILLION.)
All races on earth have suffered. Drop the high-and-mighty act.
Originally posted by: rartech
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: rartech
OK, you're right, Bush has never lied.
Halliburton is Dick C's baby, not Bush. And George Sr. wasn't a bad guy. Just for the record, I'm not anti-Republican. I just think if somebody is not doing a good job, they need to be called out. It's not anti-Republican or anti-Bush, it's Pro-America. I want what's best for this country and I'm sure you do too. We just have differing opinions on how to get there. You feel GWB is on the right track and I don't. We can agree to disagree.
The discussion was about the war and the intelligence.
Regardless of the actual outcome of the weapons situation, you and other have accused Bush of lying. I have seen no proof of that claim as none has been offered. I do see people using what we know now to project back to 2002 & 2003, but that doesn't prove anything was a "lie".
My support of Bush or removing Saddam from power has anything to do with what a lie is.
No, the original discussion was about MM. You and others claim he is a liar and a hypocrite.
Bush and his people did the same thing you say MM did when pushing for this war - half truths, giving only the information they wanted you to hear, splicing, cutting and pasting things, making claims they could not back up, all in an effort to sell this war.
So give me a straight answer - if MM is a liar and a hypocrite, is GWB one too?
No, our discussion was about war and intelligence because you brought it up and tried to claim Bush lied. You and others have accused Bush of lying, but have offered ZERO proof of that.
I have made no claim here as to M. Moore. I did however note that people who think Bush is a liar must also think M. Moore is - using their definition of "liar".
You see, I asked the opposite question and am under no obligation to answer yours since I haven't made a claim against M. Moore. You have made a claim against Bush so please try to answer this since you've been dodging it:
Does anyone know the definition of a lie?
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression
Where was Bush's "intent to deceive" when he was only following intelligence reports?
Where did Bush "create" a misleading impression?
He didn't. He didn't lie. When he said Saddam had WMD and links to Al-Queda, he believed what he was saying was the truth. That, my friend, is NOT a lie.
So I can say the same about the people who call Bush a liar based on these things. They didn't know the defintion of lying, therefore they believed they were telling the truth. But since you've read this, you can no longer call Bush a liar, because you will be lying yourself.
Look at definition number 2 everyone....recognize that? Yeah in Michael Moores films...especially in Charleton Hestons butchered speech in Bowling for Columbine. Especially when he was interviewing ONLY troops that opposed the war in F9/11 which represent about 2% (maybe less) of the opinions of people in our military. Lets face it, taking footage of people and butchering and editing it to make them look however you want and handpicking interviewees that will say what you want and then stuffing it into your face for a couple hours is the cheapest and laziest form of persuasion. That's why only naive idiots will believe it because they'll believe anything they see.
I probably wouldn't have as big of a problem with Moore if he wasn't so anti-gun. Being anti-gun and blaming gun manufacturers and kmart is facist nonetheless.
Now, since I've cleared that up, no more "lying" hogwash.
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression
Where was Bush's "intent to deceive" when he was only following intelligence reports?
Where did Bush "create" a misleading impression?
He didn't. He didn't lie. When he said Saddam had WMD and links to Al-Queda, he believed what he was saying was the truth. That, my friend, is NOT a lie.
So I can say the same about the people who call Bush a liar based on these things. They didn't know the defintion of lying, therefore they believed they were telling the truth. But since you've read this, you can no longer call Bush a liar, because you will be lying yourself.
Look at definition number 2 everyone....recognize that? Yeah in Michael Moores films...especially in Charleton Hestons butchered speech in Bowling for Columbine. Especially when he was interviewing ONLY troops that opposed the war in F9/11 which represent about 2% (maybe less) of the opinions of people in our military. Lets face it, taking footage of people and butchering and editing it to make them look however you want and handpicking interviewees that will say what you want and then stuffing it into your face for a couple hours is the cheapest and laziest form of persuasion. That's why only naive idiots will believe it because they'll believe anything they see.
I probably wouldn't have as big of a problem with Moore if he wasn't so anti-gun. Being anti-gun and blaming gun manufacturers and kmart is facist nonetheless.
Now, since I've cleared that up, no more "lying" hogwash.
Definition of a lie:
2 : to create a false or misleading impression
WaPo article">Complete article</a>
Do you remember ANYTHING AT ALL coming from any administration official citing doubts in the intelligence community about the pre-war information? I sure as sh*t don't. I do remember a few hundred appearances from them talking about "mushroom clouds" however. That is lying.
BurnItDwn
Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 26,354
- 1,863
- 126
So are you are implying that perhaps Bush is very ethical, however, he's either incompetant or just really really ignorant???
If he honestly believed that there were WMD there with enough conviction to start a war, then how come none of the proof that convinced him has been shown to anybody else? Has it been shown to him, did someone trick him into believing it? Did he just want to believe in it really really bad so he magicly believed?
Sorry, I do not believe Bush is that stupid. He knew all along that there would be no WMD found. He also knew that people would trust what he said, so he said whatever it took to start the war in Iraq. I don't think it had anything to do with WMD. I also do not think it was really because of Oil or Money either. I think he wanted to finnish up his dads work. He wanted to get rid of the Brutal dictator. I think his motives were noble, however, he used the "ends justified the means" method of decieving us. They went into the war totally unprepared for what was about to happen, and with their true motive hidden.
Personally, I think We should have finnished the job back in the 90s when we had the support of the Iraqi people. Since we turned our backs on them when they tried to rebel from Saddom they kinda lost the trust. The world is a fvcked up place I don't believe anything any politician ever says, they are all lying scumbags.
EDIT: and FYI, I think Michael Moore is an A$$hole. I don't think he's really a hypocrite or too much of a liar, but he's definatly an A$$hole.
Bush created the false or misleading impression? Why no, no he didn't. That impression was there years before Bush became President and Saddam is the one who was trying to hold up the impression he has massive stockpiles of WMDs.
Once again, do you have any links to any of the main administration officials that were on TV almost daily selling this war stating that there were some serious doubts in regards to the accuracy of the evidence they were using to pump up support? That was there when he started and nothing you can say about Clinton this or Clinton that is relavant at all.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter