My theory on what makes CS so successful.

[VIAN]

I was fed up with CS:S. I was tired of shooting and not hitting. It was never certain that I ever hit anyone, as if every hit was luck, because it seemed like it was out of my control. All I did was point and burst fire, yet they never die. For months I tried to find the correct way to play, but was always unsuccessful. The more I thought about it the worse I became. I finally conclude that there is no right way to play. There are only guidelines and you just have to go with the flow. This brings to mind the quote from Bruce Lee: I do not hit... it hits all by itself. Meaning, overthinking the way you play will slow you down and you will lose.

While I was fed up I decided to try FEAR Combat. I played it for a few hours over a few days, but I ended up bored. I asked myself why. What does CS have that it always keeps you coming back for more, no matter how pissed, that this game doesn't have? Sure FEAR has better graphics, weapons that are point and shoot, and more unpredictability in TDM, but why isn't it better? I decided to find out reasons that marked FEAR Combat as just another multiplayer.

Some of the reasons as to why CS is successful may also be true in other games, but its the combination of them together that make CS what it is.

- It's Easy to Get Killed. This adds to the challenge and frustration. And creates anticipation during the Afterlife (description below).

- It's Difficult to Kill. UPDATE: I take this back. When CS:S works properly, killing is only moderately difficult. Although you need to use more strategy in CS:S to kill enemies, in comparison to FEAR Combat DM.

- Map Predictability and Other Surprises. You know when and where people come from. You might even assume, but then boom, you get killed. The surprises in something familiar. Just when you think you know something, you still don't know it all. This type of surprise almost makes you smile and say, "Damn, he got me. Whadda bastard." Other surprises include sh*t that just doesn't happen every day, like someone jumping and head-shotting you in the air.

- Frustrations. What the hell is with the shield (in old CS), the flash, the AWP, the headshots, the jumping headshots, the map exploits... Alright, maybe not all of these are kept in CS on purpose, but these things get you so frustrated... that you have to kick whoever's ass is behind it. You just have to kill that one assh*le to make you feel better. Keeps you coming back.

- Afterlife. This is one of the most important reasons. When you die, you get a nice break, maybe a minute or two. Within that break, you start to strategize how to kick ass the next round. Your mind is constantly working, and then you anticipate the next round because of your hope that this time, you will kicking ass. Another reason is that you can see your fellow gamers play during this time. It cements that image that you are playing with other people. And you are able to talk about the game while it's happening. It gives the feeling of a community. This is lacking in games that allow you to spawn immediately after dying.

- Realism Where it Counts. Weapons, objective, characters, gun spray. The game has realism where it counts, even fooling people into thinking it's a game about realism, but keeping it arcade enough to fool around as much as you want.

 

[gorcorps]

Not bad reasons at all, and I agree with most of them. I found CS:S nice because it's so popular that there's always noob friendly servers. Most games are pretty unforgiving with the learning curve, and CSS is pretty tough too, but not near as bad as other games in the same vein.

The frustrations part is the only part I don't agree with. Of course any hacking is BS, but all the other things are just part of the game that really can be beaten. AWPS only have an upper hand at a distance and/or if you're still. So keep moving cuz their reload time is so long between shots you should be able to get them out no prob. Flashes are annoying too, but for the most part they're only used in certain maps where you expect them (dust/office) so they're usually avoidable.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: VIAN
- Afterlife. This is one of the most important reasons. When you die, you get a nice break, maybe a minute or two. Within that break, you start to strategize how to kick ass the next round. Your mind is constantly working, and then you anticipate the next round because of your hope that this time, you will kicking ass. Another reason is that you can see your fellow gamers play during this time. It cements that image that you are playing with other people. And you are able to talk about the game while it's happening. It gives the feeling of a community. This is lacking in games that allow you to spawn immediately after dying.

Meh, that's the main reason as to why I don't like CS. There's nothing wrong with a short penalty but I don't like waiting for a whole minute or two just to start playing again. Day of Defeat, on the other hand, fits all of your other qualifications and mine and that is why it is the best multiplayer game.

 

[QueBert]

I LOVE CS on a small twitch map like Iceworld or Pool Day (fvckin love Pool Day!) The rounds are so fast even if you die first, you'll be back playing in like 20 seconds tops.

I love maps like Dust for all the places to hide and stuff, but sometimes a large battle (8 on 8 or so) it seems like forever to wait if you're the first to die.

Some people get too good with certain weapons where it's almost no fun to play, because you just destroy you. I always thought it would be cool if somebody created a mod that randomly at the start of ever round changes the stats of each weapon, so you never really knew what you'd get. I use to constantly loose to people who sucked unless they had 1 weapon. I'd make the mod I'm talkin about except I don't know how. Anyone else agree with this be an interesting mod? Example, one round the AK is the normal AK, the next it's 50% less accurate, fires slower and does waaaay less damage. That would stack the game in favor of people who actually are good. And at the same time give the n00bs a bit more of a chance. Imagine one round the knife being the most damaging weapon and the AWP being less effective then the knife 🙂

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: QueBert
I LOVE CS on a small twitch map like Iceworld or Pool Day (fvckin love Pool Day!) The rounds are so fast even if you die first, you'll be back playing in like 20 seconds tops.

I love maps like Dust for all the places to hide and stuff, but sometimes a large battle (8 on 8 or so) it seems like forever to wait if you're the first to die.

Some people get too good with certain weapons where it's almost no fun to play, because you just destroy you. I always thought it would be cool if somebody created a mod that randomly at the start of ever round changes the stats of each weapon, so you never really knew what you'd get. I use to constantly loose to people who sucked unless they had 1 weapon. I'd make the mod I'm talkin about except I don't know how. Anyone else agree with this be an interesting mod? Example, one round the AK is the normal AK, the next it's 50% less accurate, fires slower and does waaaay less damage. That would stack the game in favor of people who actually are good. And at the same time give the n00bs a bit more of a chance. Imagine one round the knife being the most damaging weapon and the AWP being less effective then the knife 🙂

I used to run a medium-sized fy_iceworld Source server on a spare rig, I might have to get it up again.

And for the OP... the hitboxes are fine now - don't know what you're talking about with registration issues. I regularly one-shot kill with headshots (40% of kills).

 

[0roo0roo]

its not that hard or random. look up guides on the weapons for descriptions. i think there was a site showing the bullet groupings and stuff. atleast for the original cs there were glass maps that had walls that had squares that would turn red on impact so you could figure out how guns actually behaved. bullet decals in the original cs weren't based on where they hit so u had to use the glass map. also had stuff like how far a bullet would penetrate etc

once u understand how the guns work its not hard at all to kill. and now in source there are dm maps where you respawn instantly so trying new weapons and new things can be done over and over with no risk.

there are right ways to play though..how to use the weapons. how to navigate levels..where the hiding spaces are etc. but yes it encourages people to learn by watching the mistakes or success of other players between rounds

 

[sswingle]

And yesterday you posted how much Valve sucks... 😕

 

[potato28]

I like playing zombie mod for CS:S because of some of the maps you have to play on. You really camp most of the time unless theres only 1 AFK zombie.... then we go huntin' 😛

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
And yesterday you posted how much Valve sucks... 😕

Just because he dislikes Valve doesn't mean he can't like a product...

Note that I've never liked CS, but I've always seen people enjoy it possibly because of how it's a mix between realism (Rainbow Six) and not-so-realism (UT, Quake, Doom). For people who can't handle the extremes, they gravitate toward the middle 😛.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

I play on only "pro" servers and. by far, the greatest part of CS:S is the psychological gamesmanship. Picking up on other people's patterns of behavior, trying not to have any patterns of your own but still sticking with your strengths. Going B three times in a row and switching to Long A because they're starting to cheat towards B. Having to force yourself to fire in controlled bursts when you just want to hold down the trigger and go "Yaaaaaaaah" when you turn around a corner and run into two enemies. Getting to the point where your reflex is switching to knife when you have someone's back to you.

Also, I find Gun Games to be a lot of fun. Lately, I play them about half the time. Having to play the map different each time based on the strength and weakness of your current weapon is refreshing.

 

[Genx87]

I have had CS and CS:S in my games menu for years and only recently installed CS:S. I will say yeah, there is some weapon sway and at times it is annoying dropping a bunch of bullets at a guy down the hall not hitting him enough to kill where he turns around and nails you throughy the head with a pistol. But it is light years better than Day of Defeat Source. OMG that game is over the top when it comes to weapon sway. I cant even bring myself to download the files anymore because it is such crap.

I like the wide range of weapons you can use.

My only gripes are AWPs are way too accurate when jumping and running.
Flash grenades annoy the ever living shat ouf of me, but I wouldnt want them changed.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: VIAN
- Afterlife. This is one of the most important reasons. When you die, you get a nice break, maybe a minute or two. Within that break, you start to strategize how to kick ass the next round. Your mind is constantly working, and then you anticipate the next round because of your hope that this time, you will kicking ass. Another reason is that you can see your fellow gamers play during this time. It cements that image that you are playing with other people. And you are able to talk about the game while it's happening. It gives the feeling of a community. This is lacking in games that allow you to spawn immediately after dying.

Meh, that's the main reason as to why I don't like CS. There's nothing wrong with a short penalty but I don't like waiting for a whole minute or two just to start playing again. Day of Defeat, on the other hand, fits all of your other qualifications and mine and that is why it is the best multiplayer game.

I've always liked DoD's style of spawning since I first encountered it (in my case, in RtCW). There is a counter, forcing you wait a short while when you die. This effectively makes death mean something. In older games, you respawned instantly...making the only loss in death the loss of some weapons. That was its own punishment, but NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY makes you actually care about dying more then being able to play, only crippled. Additionally, in team games the delay still gave you a strategic reward for killing (enemy is eliminated and you have enough time to regroup)

The problem with CS is that it goes a little to far. Its not really any fun being dead! And while I agree there should be a punishment for stupid risky playing, being out for the entire round because some one got off a lucky deagle headshot from across the map really sucks. Its more frustrating when you get luck killed, because death sucks so bad. Its not really any fun to be capped 20 seconds into the round and then have to wait 4 minutes before you can play again. It makes the learning curve steeper as well. While watching better players play in spectator mode can teach you a lot of things, you're not going to get much better at the game if you spend 3:30 minutes dead and 30 seconds not really knowing how the guns work.

On the other hand, it makes it that much more satisfying when you luckshot a really good player and know that they're cursing you!

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I play on only "pro" servers and. by far, the greatest part of CS:S is the psychological gamesmanship. Picking up on other people's patterns of behavior, trying not to have any patterns of your own but still sticking with your strengths. Going B three times in a row and switching to Long A because they're starting to cheat towards B. Having to force yourself to fire in controlled bursts when you just want to hold down the trigger and go "Yaaaaaaaah" when you turn around a corner and run into two enemies. Getting to the point where your reflex is switching to knife when you have someone's back to you.

Also, I find Gun Games to be a lot of fun. Lately, I play them about half the time. Having to play the map different each time based on the strength and weakness of your current weapon is refreshing.

I still don't understand why people switch to the knife when they get the drop on some one. All of the time I've played CS:S I was only surprise knife killed once. (I remember because I was totally shocked). I'm not that good. I know its fun to humilate some one, but if I don't hear the footsteps, I always hear the "shink" noise and turn around. And there they are...bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I just line up a headshot. I only use the knife when dualing and we both empty our primary and secondaries.

 

[QuantumPion]

I love that map where the floors are made of glass, and if you fall down you fall into a deep pit and die. It's such a twitchy and hilariously fun map to play. I love hearing and seeing all of the brass, guns, and occasional corpse fall into the pit, letting you know how much action is going on above.

Also, back in old CS, the jeep level where you could drive a jeep and run people over, but it was really corny because the half life engine wasn't designed to handle vehicles properly, leading to hilarious non-physical situations. Ah, good times.

 

[VIAN]

Yes, DOD also has some of these elements that CS has.

Including the Wait Time after death, some realism, map predictability and surprises.

I agree, a game that punishes you for getting killed like DOD is better than just respawning.

 

[Sureshot324]

I find that using very fast single shots instead of bursts eliminates a lot of the randomness in the shots. You fire less shots but they're more accurate. Of course you wouldn't want to do this at close range.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I play on only "pro" servers and. by far, the greatest part of CS:S is the psychological gamesmanship. Picking up on other people's patterns of behavior, trying not to have any patterns of your own but still sticking with your strengths. Going B three times in a row and switching to Long A because they're starting to cheat towards B. Having to force yourself to fire in controlled bursts when you just want to hold down the trigger and go "Yaaaaaaaah" when you turn around a corner and run into two enemies. Getting to the point where your reflex is switching to knife when you have someone's back to you.

Also, I find Gun Games to be a lot of fun. Lately, I play them about half the time. Having to play the map different each time based on the strength and weakness of your current weapon is refreshing.

I still don't understand why people switch to the knife when they get the drop on some one. All of the time I've played CS:S I was only surprise knife killed once. (I remember because I was totally shocked). I'm not that good. I know its fun to humilate some one, but if I don't hear the footsteps, I always hear the "shink" noise and turn around. And there they are...bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I just line up a headshot. I only use the knife when dualing and we both empty our primary and secondaries.

If you play on more than Dust and Dust2 you're going to have plenty of chances at a clean knife kill.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Its not really any fun to be capped 20 seconds into the round and then have to wait 4 minutes before you can play again.

Related anectdote:

I admin a 24/7 Office server. 46-slots, Awp/Autos restricted to 2 per team, $8K starting cash.

I'm almost always a CT, and when I can get the awp the first thing I do is I'll dash to the long sniper room right by CT spawn and pick off Ts across the map as they run out of T spawn into backyard and garage.

I sometimes feel bad for the guys I kill, because if I get them right there it usually means they've been alive for all of 10 seconds and not even seen an enemy. Sometimes I'll get the same guy for 2 or 3 rounds in a row, and I really feel bad. LEARN TO JUMP!

 

[Childs]

First of all, the riot shield kicks a$$!

I think its the same thing that keeps me playing BF2/2142. I dont know what it is, but no matter how pissed off I get I always come back.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I play on only "pro" servers and. by far, the greatest part of CS:S is the psychological gamesmanship. Picking up on other people's patterns of behavior, trying not to have any patterns of your own but still sticking with your strengths. Going B three times in a row and switching to Long A because they're starting to cheat towards B. Having to force yourself to fire in controlled bursts when you just want to hold down the trigger and go "Yaaaaaaaah" when you turn around a corner and run into two enemies. Getting to the point where your reflex is switching to knife when you have someone's back to you.

Also, I find Gun Games to be a lot of fun. Lately, I play them about half the time. Having to play the map different each time based on the strength and weakness of your current weapon is refreshing.

I still don't understand why people switch to the knife when they get the drop on some one. All of the time I've played CS:S I was only surprise knife killed once. (I remember because I was totally shocked). I'm not that good. I know its fun to humilate some one, but if I don't hear the footsteps, I always hear the "shink" noise and turn around. And there they are...bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I just line up a headshot. I only use the knife when dualing and we both empty our primary and secondaries.

If you play on more than Dust and Dust2 you're going to have plenty of chances at a clean knife kill.

I wasn't aware the other maps disabled the knife noise.

And, where did I say I even liked the dust maps?

 

[Zenoth]

I honestly respect others who like CS/CS:S, but even though I tried it a couple of times (at least two or three times each official maps), I just don't like that game. And the main point is that it ain't arcade enough for me. Also, you have to wait after you die, and I don't like that, not fast-paced enough for me. Give me DoD/DoD:S and UT 2004 and then we can start talking about fast-pace action games.

However my favorite multi-player game using the Source Engine is current Half-Life 2: Deathmatch. And I cannot wait for Team Fortress 2.

And then we'll have go buy UT 2007 when it comes out and that's gonna kick some serious arses.

 

[clickynext]

CS wouldn't be so fun without it. 🙂

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I play on only "pro" servers and. by far, the greatest part of CS:S is the psychological gamesmanship. Picking up on other people's patterns of behavior, trying not to have any patterns of your own but still sticking with your strengths. Going B three times in a row and switching to Long A because they're starting to cheat towards B. Having to force yourself to fire in controlled bursts when you just want to hold down the trigger and go "Yaaaaaaaah" when you turn around a corner and run into two enemies. Getting to the point where your reflex is switching to knife when you have someone's back to you.

Also, I find Gun Games to be a lot of fun. Lately, I play them about half the time. Having to play the map different each time based on the strength and weakness of your current weapon is refreshing.

I still don't understand why people switch to the knife when they get the drop on some one. All of the time I've played CS:S I was only surprise knife killed once. (I remember because I was totally shocked). I'm not that good. I know its fun to humilate some one, but if I don't hear the footsteps, I always hear the "shink" noise and turn around. And there they are...bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I just line up a headshot. I only use the knife when dualing and we both empty our primary and secondaries.

its the psychological effect of pwning someone, its fun and rewarding..super risky but rewarding. once u are practiced enough it does become useful at times.. like if you are both rather close together and both of u just shot out your clips. if you can close the distance and stab the guy before he whips out his pistol or finishes reloading his rifle that one stab is generally enough at that point. theres the panic factor too when someone is knife rushing u, they might fumble and start reloading then try to switch to pistol etc...cuz no one wants to get pwned like that heh. its definetly useful when you know the other guy only has a pistol..and he finishes his clip😉

and well when theres gunfights going on a map with loads of people on it, u can run into situations where the guys already firing at someone else and won't hear you. or the other situation where its two vs one and u bum rush with knife while he's trying to shoot your teammate..panic situation there too lol🙂 ive gotten loads of knife kills, mostly because sometimes i just don't care about my stats, just fun.

generally its the kind of thing if you hesitate at all you will fail at knifing.

 

[Zugzwang152]

Trash talking while dead, then putting your money where your mouth is the next round is what keeps people coming back.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: VIAN
- Afterlife. This is one of the most important reasons. When you die, you get a nice break, maybe a minute or two. Within that break, you start to strategize how to kick ass the next round. Your mind is constantly working, and then you anticipate the next round because of your hope that this time, you will kicking ass. Another reason is that you can see your fellow gamers play during this time. It cements that image that you are playing with other people. And you are able to talk about the game while it's happening. It gives the feeling of a community. This is lacking in games that allow you to spawn immediately after dying.

Meh, that's the main reason as to why I don't like CS. There's nothing wrong with a short penalty but I don't like waiting for a whole minute or two just to start playing again. Day of Defeat, on the other hand, fits all of your other qualifications and mine and that is why it is the best multiplayer game.

yeah, i hate waiting to play again too. and i always seem to be on the server with the one guy who camps somewhere, so you have to spend like 5 minutes waiting for the other team to find him and kill him. main reason why i barely play the game.