Bleh, it seems you are still molesting the stream. 24/96 PCM implies downsamping to two channel (possibly mock surround) and also resampling the frequency from the original 48 KHz. That would explain why it is different than S/PDIF pass-through from the X-Fi. The reduced dynamic range would render some effects louder on the PC speaker kit.
-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
My Review of the Creative SB X-Fi
Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Bleh, it seems you are still molesting the stream. 24/96 PCM implies downsamping to two channel (possibly mock surround) and also resampling the frequency from the original 48 KHz. That would explain why it is different than S/PDIF pass-through from the X-Fi. The reduced dynamic range would render some effects louder on the PC speaker kit.
Nice review. From your review, it seems that the x-fi is good for gaming while the X-Mystique is what you would get if you want dd. Now, in my case, i do a decent amount of gaming with my Senn HD595 and listen to music in 2.1 channel mode with my reciever. Would i be better off with the Auzentech or the x-fi? Or would the difference be so little i won't notice with a switch?
darkswordsman17
Lifer
Man, you really need to chill out. He's not hijacking your thread. He's asking a question that he's hoping you can answer for him.
jondl:
Thats a tough one. For gaming there's almost no doubt the X-Fi would be better, and they've supposedly made big improvements to dimensional audio using headphones. For music, using your reciever (which amplifies the signal) will be better absolutely. The DD effects of the Auzentech won't really help here if you just listen to 2.1, as the big benefit is the surround encoding. Despite what the OP seems to be experiencing, you should be able to just do a signal bypass to your reciever and there shouldn't be a difference in quality between the X-Fi and the Auzentech cards. I would say the X-Fi would be the better choice for you.
As for the OP's last question.
A cheaper process I would think means they switched to a lower nanometer that they're producing them on, so going from 110nm to 90nm or the like. This shouldn't have an affect on performance. This is also the first I've heard about this. I can't recall if the X-Fi I had bought last fall had a heatsink, in a way I think it didn't, but the X-Fi Platinum that I just got has a black heatsink.
Where are you reading about this cheaper process?
jondl:
Thats a tough one. For gaming there's almost no doubt the X-Fi would be better, and they've supposedly made big improvements to dimensional audio using headphones. For music, using your reciever (which amplifies the signal) will be better absolutely. The DD effects of the Auzentech won't really help here if you just listen to 2.1, as the big benefit is the surround encoding. Despite what the OP seems to be experiencing, you should be able to just do a signal bypass to your reciever and there shouldn't be a difference in quality between the X-Fi and the Auzentech cards. I would say the X-Fi would be the better choice for you.
As for the OP's last question.
A cheaper process I would think means they switched to a lower nanometer that they're producing them on, so going from 110nm to 90nm or the like. This shouldn't have an affect on performance. This is also the first I've heard about this. I can't recall if the X-Fi I had bought last fall had a heatsink, in a way I think it didn't, but the X-Fi Platinum that I just got has a black heatsink.
Where are you reading about this cheaper process?
Janet Reno
Member
Check the X-plosion. Use optical out with the Z5500s. Many claim the speaker sound quality improves when using them like that compared to analog.
This forum has the worst Creative fanbois I've ever seen.
To the original poster: Have you tried playing HL2 w/ the Auzentech and X-fi? That game doesn't use EAX I don't think. It might give another angle of the gaming quality, possibly? Also, is there a humm with the speakers using the creative+analog connection? Or with the Auzentech+digital at all? I've seen a lot of complaints of the sub humming on the logitech site as well.
And urm...here's some reviews of the Auzentech X-plosion from newegg: Just to stir things up from the gaming angle of things. Most of them compare Creative cards.
---------------------
"Sweet Card
Pros: The DTS Connect feature is just leaps and bounds better then EAX alone.
Cons: Some Driver bugs, that will be fixed in due time.
Other Thoughts: DTS Connect is staggering playing the HL2: Lost Coast demo was amazing. Doom 3 was absolutely terrifying."
---------------------
"X-plosion review
Pros: I previously owned an Audigy 2Zs card and decided to purchase this card because a port on my Audigy burned out. This X-plosion card is incredible! Music sounds much better on my Logitech Z-680 speakers than with my old Audigy card. People will tell you that this card has inferior sound with games, BULL! COD2, Fear and many other games I play sound absolutly astounding! The sound is crisp, deep, ultra clear and second to none! The software and card is super easy to install and you get great tweek menus like EQ, Tons of presets, Ect... Both Dolby Digital live and DTS mode 5.1 sound superior to any Audigy card I have ever used! The optical jumper is included and thats the only line needed. Don't listen to all the Creative Audigy and X-fi fan boys! This card is the king!!!!!
Cons: None.
Other Thoughts: Don't be descouraged if at first the sound is a bit tinny. You have to adjust the EQ a bit to get the sound you prefer."
---------------------
"Xciting
Pros: DTS5.1 in games! This alone is a great reason. Also does it in music. Easy install. Price is great. Upgradeable analog OPAMPS. Toslink cable! Cable alone is at least worth 40. Passthru works great on DTS/DD5.1 movies. Support is excellent, they are quick to answer any questions thru e-mail. Last Pro: its not a Creative.
Cons: Couple of driver issues like: Have to enable Kareoke to keep the DTS/DDigital5.1 stream alive or it will cut the first half second of sound out. Had to really play with control panel to get all of my speakers to work with toslink cable. Card does not like sharing IRQs. Still pros outweigh cons and deserves 5 eggs.
Other Thoughts: Why buy Creative, when you can have something far better than EAX...DTS/DD5.1. You can also purchase a MIDI bracket for instruments."
---------------------
X-mystique review at newegg:
---------------------
"Amazing
Comments: I currently own a XX Audigy 2zs, X-Fi and now this card. I have owned in the past Nvidia Soundstorm, XX Audigy and Live etc. and this sound card beats all of them in movies and music. The X-Fi is a great card too but the Dobly Digital live is what put this card over the X-Fi. I'm using the optical cable going to my Logitech Z680 speakers... I have used this setup before on the Nvidia Soundstorm but this card is better then Soundstorm!
Gaming wise the X-Fi might be better due to its EAX 4.0/5.0 support. But EAX just adds reverb. Sometimes it distorts the sound; with this card you get crisp and clean sounds. Performance is about 2-3% slower in games due to DDL but the sound quality is worth it. If you have a receiver this card is a must. If you are using analog cables the X-Fi should be fine for you. Right now there are not a lot of games that use EAX 4.0 and 5.0. BF2 being one of them, on the X-Fi the reverb and effects were nice. But I personally enjoy the cleaner sound of this card on BF2.
If you?re an audiophile then this card is for you. Using Nvidia?s DVD Decoder in Dolby Digital DTS mode was absolutely astonishing. It was the first time in front of my computer that I actually felt like I was in a theater. Using high end headphones like Sennheiser you don?t hear any crackles like the Audigy cards. If sound quality is what is important to you then this is your card."
This forum has the worst Creative fanbois I've ever seen.
To the original poster: Have you tried playing HL2 w/ the Auzentech and X-fi? That game doesn't use EAX I don't think. It might give another angle of the gaming quality, possibly? Also, is there a humm with the speakers using the creative+analog connection? Or with the Auzentech+digital at all? I've seen a lot of complaints of the sub humming on the logitech site as well.
And urm...here's some reviews of the Auzentech X-plosion from newegg: Just to stir things up from the gaming angle of things. Most of them compare Creative cards.
---------------------
"Sweet Card
Pros: The DTS Connect feature is just leaps and bounds better then EAX alone.
Cons: Some Driver bugs, that will be fixed in due time.
Other Thoughts: DTS Connect is staggering playing the HL2: Lost Coast demo was amazing. Doom 3 was absolutely terrifying."
---------------------
"X-plosion review
Pros: I previously owned an Audigy 2Zs card and decided to purchase this card because a port on my Audigy burned out. This X-plosion card is incredible! Music sounds much better on my Logitech Z-680 speakers than with my old Audigy card. People will tell you that this card has inferior sound with games, BULL! COD2, Fear and many other games I play sound absolutly astounding! The sound is crisp, deep, ultra clear and second to none! The software and card is super easy to install and you get great tweek menus like EQ, Tons of presets, Ect... Both Dolby Digital live and DTS mode 5.1 sound superior to any Audigy card I have ever used! The optical jumper is included and thats the only line needed. Don't listen to all the Creative Audigy and X-fi fan boys! This card is the king!!!!!
Cons: None.
Other Thoughts: Don't be descouraged if at first the sound is a bit tinny. You have to adjust the EQ a bit to get the sound you prefer."
---------------------
"Xciting
Pros: DTS5.1 in games! This alone is a great reason. Also does it in music. Easy install. Price is great. Upgradeable analog OPAMPS. Toslink cable! Cable alone is at least worth 40. Passthru works great on DTS/DD5.1 movies. Support is excellent, they are quick to answer any questions thru e-mail. Last Pro: its not a Creative.
Cons: Couple of driver issues like: Have to enable Kareoke to keep the DTS/DDigital5.1 stream alive or it will cut the first half second of sound out. Had to really play with control panel to get all of my speakers to work with toslink cable. Card does not like sharing IRQs. Still pros outweigh cons and deserves 5 eggs.
Other Thoughts: Why buy Creative, when you can have something far better than EAX...DTS/DD5.1. You can also purchase a MIDI bracket for instruments."
---------------------
X-mystique review at newegg:
---------------------
"Amazing
Comments: I currently own a XX Audigy 2zs, X-Fi and now this card. I have owned in the past Nvidia Soundstorm, XX Audigy and Live etc. and this sound card beats all of them in movies and music. The X-Fi is a great card too but the Dobly Digital live is what put this card over the X-Fi. I'm using the optical cable going to my Logitech Z680 speakers... I have used this setup before on the Nvidia Soundstorm but this card is better then Soundstorm!
Gaming wise the X-Fi might be better due to its EAX 4.0/5.0 support. But EAX just adds reverb. Sometimes it distorts the sound; with this card you get crisp and clean sounds. Performance is about 2-3% slower in games due to DDL but the sound quality is worth it. If you have a receiver this card is a must. If you are using analog cables the X-Fi should be fine for you. Right now there are not a lot of games that use EAX 4.0 and 5.0. BF2 being one of them, on the X-Fi the reverb and effects were nice. But I personally enjoy the cleaner sound of this card on BF2.
If you?re an audiophile then this card is for you. Using Nvidia?s DVD Decoder in Dolby Digital DTS mode was absolutely astonishing. It was the first time in front of my computer that I actually felt like I was in a theater. Using high end headphones like Sennheiser you don?t hear any crackles like the Audigy cards. If sound quality is what is important to you then this is your card."
Some people keep this rant alive by posting subsequent comments.
I guess most people just go pass them because this thread stinks.
Just in case someone is misled by "information" posted here,
let me clear one little thing:
Chippy, why, did you use DDL on movies? Movies are in Dolby or DTS already. My X-Fi, as any other sound card can bypass encoded information to the external decoder.
Technically speaking there isn't a jot of difference between these 2 cards when by-passing signal to a receiver, so if using same speaker set, there is no reason for sound to differ from one card to another.
And if you turn encoding on with pre-encoded material this won't make it sound any better due to lossy compression algorithm and delay that may occur. It isn't terribly bad, but it does not make sound better, either. The bottom line is that encoding pre-encoded material is useless. If writing review you really should know that 😉
The strenght of X-plosion is in games - if using receiver that has better quality DACs then those on the sound card (which cannot be said about all receivers) X-Fi does not offer encoding to DDL but it processes EAX HD that X-plosion does not.
SO it is either - or if you want to look at just these 2 features in isolation, but there are many more...
I guess most people just go pass them because this thread stinks.
Just in case someone is misled by "information" posted here,
let me clear one little thing:
Chippy, why, did you use DDL on movies? Movies are in Dolby or DTS already. My X-Fi, as any other sound card can bypass encoded information to the external decoder.
Technically speaking there isn't a jot of difference between these 2 cards when by-passing signal to a receiver, so if using same speaker set, there is no reason for sound to differ from one card to another.
And if you turn encoding on with pre-encoded material this won't make it sound any better due to lossy compression algorithm and delay that may occur. It isn't terribly bad, but it does not make sound better, either. The bottom line is that encoding pre-encoded material is useless. If writing review you really should know that 😉
The strenght of X-plosion is in games - if using receiver that has better quality DACs then those on the sound card (which cannot be said about all receivers) X-Fi does not offer encoding to DDL but it processes EAX HD that X-plosion does not.
SO it is either - or if you want to look at just these 2 features in isolation, but there are many more...
darkswordsman17
Lifer
Yeah, because those Newegg reviews are all done by people who know what they're talking about.
The reason why the Auzentech would sound better to most people is the fact that if you're sending it to a decent reciever, you're getting the signal amplified. Not to mention the fact that most of the speakers that people would be using on them would be superior to something like the Z-5500s. Most of the people buying this card and using it like they should (optical out to a reciever) are knowledgable enough that they aren't using some crappy $300 HTiB, they're instead using their $1000+ HT setups that if you did a 6 channel analog connection from the X-Fi would sound close to as good. There are very few people who have even tried doing this, so they aren't making a good comparison when they say that immediately it sounded better. Of course if you try to pass a stereo stream to an external reciever from an X-Fi its going to sound worse than a DTS encoded stream from the Auzentech (I'm speaking about games here, as movies should be bypassed to the reciever most of the time, and I'll cover music in a moment).
No offense to the OP, but as has been pointed out many times, him saying that both cards bypassing the stream to the reciever they don't sound the same tells me he's not doing it correctly (or else just thinks he's hearing a difference). He's almost certainly still applying whatever affects that he was using for games and music to the signal, which means it is not the same signal.
The Newegg review where the guy says he's using Z-680s is probably due to the fact that with the A2ZS he was either doing some stupid CMSS mixing to get sound out of all speakers, and so when he used the Auzentech and was getting a DTS mix of it, with the sound coming out of all speakers then it would sound better to the average person. There are quite a bit of people who have pointed out that even on the Auzentech cards music sounds better not re-mixed as it doesn't sound natural and true to the original recording. Not to mention, as its been pointed out quite often, the Audigy 2 ZS was not a good card for music, while the X-Fi is about equal to other cards.
Oh wait, I guess I'm a Creative fanboy....
Patrick Wolf
Platinum Member
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_live.html
If anyone's interested. ^ ^ ^
On another note, I just tested the LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring.
My test setup:
Power DVD 6.0 Deluxe with all the extra audio upgrades.
Klipsch ProMedia 5.1
X-Fi Xtrememusic - analog connection of course
24-bit crystalizer =100%
CMSS on/off didn't do anything
Entertainment Mode
All Dolby/DTS options enabled to decode through the X-Fi
Dynamic Range = Full
Equalizer =default
Simply put, it sounded amazing good, I tested everything the ChiPCGuy did...
1. With the X-Fi, I can barely hear the arrows fly past the elf's head on the line during the charge. I cannot hear the "big bad guy" swinging his bludgeon during the end of the scene when dozens of soldiers are being flung around. I cannot hear the crackle of the cut off fingers from the "big bad guy" after they hit the ground with the glowing ring.
2. With raw PCM output to the receiver, I can now hear the arrows clearly as they fire. I can hear the "big bad guy" swinging his bludgeon and the air displacing around it when swung. I hear the crackling of the cut off fingers.
3. With DD Live 5.1 encoding to the receiver set in the Auzentech driver, I can now not only hear the arrows fly by the elf's head, but I can hear the air that is displaced by the arrows. The sound is more immersive and even "brighter". I can hear the crackling noises *very distinctively and individually* after the "big bad guy" has his fingers cut off.
1. I can easily hear the arrows. "You cannot hear Sauron (big bad guy) swinging is bludgen."? Umm, I could also hear that very easily. Crackle, or whatever sound that finger makes? Same thing; very easily heard; very distinctively and individually.
You had DD Live encoding enabled going to the receiver (Z-5500 control pod?) Did you than set the control pod to decode DD? Or pass-through?
If anyone's interested. ^ ^ ^
On another note, I just tested the LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring.
My test setup:
Power DVD 6.0 Deluxe with all the extra audio upgrades.
Klipsch ProMedia 5.1
X-Fi Xtrememusic - analog connection of course
24-bit crystalizer =100%
CMSS on/off didn't do anything
Entertainment Mode
All Dolby/DTS options enabled to decode through the X-Fi
Dynamic Range = Full
Equalizer =default
Simply put, it sounded amazing good, I tested everything the ChiPCGuy did...
1. With the X-Fi, I can barely hear the arrows fly past the elf's head on the line during the charge. I cannot hear the "big bad guy" swinging his bludgeon during the end of the scene when dozens of soldiers are being flung around. I cannot hear the crackle of the cut off fingers from the "big bad guy" after they hit the ground with the glowing ring.
2. With raw PCM output to the receiver, I can now hear the arrows clearly as they fire. I can hear the "big bad guy" swinging his bludgeon and the air displacing around it when swung. I hear the crackling of the cut off fingers.
3. With DD Live 5.1 encoding to the receiver set in the Auzentech driver, I can now not only hear the arrows fly by the elf's head, but I can hear the air that is displaced by the arrows. The sound is more immersive and even "brighter". I can hear the crackling noises *very distinctively and individually* after the "big bad guy" has his fingers cut off.
1. I can easily hear the arrows. "You cannot hear Sauron (big bad guy) swinging is bludgen."? Umm, I could also hear that very easily. Crackle, or whatever sound that finger makes? Same thing; very easily heard; very distinctively and individually.
You had DD Live encoding enabled going to the receiver (Z-5500 control pod?) Did you than set the control pod to decode DD? Or pass-through?
erikistired
Diamond Member
i'd never even heard of auzentech til this thread.
and as i investigate it's probably because they were blue gears (?) before they closed up shop earlier this year (from what i can tell).
Bluegears didn't close up shop. They have a sound card in the works that supposedly will be coming out decently soon based on a more advanced chip than the X-Plosion.
No, not all of us are Creative fanboys as some idiot decided to post. The X-fi has been acclaimed for its analog out its clean, and clear. With the Xplosion you are using a lossy compression to transmit the same signal. This is why when people have computer speaker systems, I usually suggest the X-fi. Its the same price or cheaper(for the music version) and connection is not difficult. Now those of us with receivers should take a look at the X-Plosion. I did, but its lack of driver support made me wary.
erikistired
Diamond Member
i've seen a few different "stories" around the web. i looked at the x-plosion for a moment but there seems to be some driver issues if you believe the newegg kids. for gaming tho it doesn't seem the way to go at all.
LittleNemoNES
Diamond Member
Hey I own an X-FI fatality and it works ok now that theres a software update. HOWEVER, it will still randomly make pop click noises -- constantly. I know what it's like to have this exremely annoying problem. The fix is always to reboot. 2.07 or whatever drivers are the ones that made things a little better. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have bought one and stuck with my HD integrated sound (A8R32)
Patrick Wolf
Platinum Member
Not so fast, the question is: Does DD Live sound better than EAX? Some of those "highly accurate and completely professional" reviews at newegg seem to think so.
And one must also consider an analog vs. digital connection, and also very important, the sound system. Generally speaking, multimedia speaker systems aren't much compared to true HT equipment, but were not talking about HT equipment here.
Is DD Live possible through the standard analog connection? No, wait a minute. DD Live encodes the data from the game, than sends it to the receiver which than decodes that signal and finally sends it to the speakers themselves? Holy crap.
Bluestealth
Senior member
Hmmm.... doesnt the X-Fi have a DTS ES/Neo 6 Plugin if you use creative multisource player,? You don't "have" to use EAX.
BTW comparing a compression format vs. a complex series of audio filters makes little sense.
EAX(Hardware accelerated audio effects), DDL(Hardware Accelerated DD compression)
Anyways I think 3 x Stereo + Sub Redirection sounds best anyways.
BTW your "Encodes" word should really be replaced with the word "Dynamic Compression", albiet DTS is MUCH better then Dolby Digital in most cases. DTS Wiki
BTW The analog DACs found on the X-Fi platinum are probably the same ones found inside that nice reciever of yours, if not better, explain to me how you are going to improve on the high quality analog outs?
I fell for that Digital Trick once, creative tried to pull it too with their line of DTT3500 speakers.
The only benefit of DDL, DTS, is one cable, or if its a low quality card, bypassing the bad analog outs.
erikistired
Diamond Member
so...yes or no? and are the driver horror stories real or made up? my HT gear is in my HT, not hooked up to my computer. i have the apparently dreaded z-5500s hooked up to my pc. so you tell me, should i ditch eax for gaming?
i read an article somewhere a bit ago that said game companies were moving away from hardware audio anyway, so it might all be a moot point eventually anyway.
Didn't read through the entire thread as the Creative bashers just bore the heck out of me, but in regards to the control panel and driver CD for those who are not aware, you DO NOT need the CD to install this card. Just download/install the latest driver package off Creative's site and it will come with a light, plain jane, basic control panel that will allow you access to all of the card's features.
Speaking for myself, I still like to install the graphical one because it allows me to put a shortcut of just the mode-switcher in my taskbar so I can quickly toggle back and forth whenever I feel like it. I also like the DVD-Audio player which sounds better PowerDVD and is certainly more lightweight.
Speaking for myself, I still like to install the graphical one because it allows me to put a shortcut of just the mode-switcher in my taskbar so I can quickly toggle back and forth whenever I feel like it. I also like the DVD-Audio player which sounds better PowerDVD and is certainly more lightweight.
Patrick Wolf
Platinum Member
What nice reciever of mine? I don't have any receiver. I was referring to the Z-5500 Control Pod and it's built-in DD decoding ability. You completely misunderstood that, as well as the rest of my post. I used the word "encode" because it's the word they use at dolby.com; Dolby Digital Live encoding.
Patrick Wolf
Platinum Member
I'm not going to tell you to do anything, I was only pondering some questions. I will suggest you ditch your Z-5500 though, requardless of the soundcard you have. 🙂
Bluestealth
Senior member
Sorry about that you have to understand that there are HUGE nested threads in this thread and I likely didn't see your post saying what speakers you were using. I was confused by "multimedia speaker systems aren't much compared to true HT equipment", didn't see "but were not talking about HT equipment here.", still didn't know you were referring to your speakers anyways, many have referred to recievers through this thread. Basically your control pod is a stripped down reciever it processes audio from several sources, then amplifies that signal, then outputs it to spakers. I still stand by my belief that the analog out are better then your digital connection to your speakers, because you are removing part of the sound before outputting it to your speakers.
Patrick Wolf
Platinum Member
Ok. I guess my definition of HT (home theater) equipment and multimedia speakers systems would be: HT= around $1000+ (generally have pretty large speakers), and multimedia speaker system= around $300 (good examples are the Logitch Z-5500 and Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 whose speakers are considered small)
BTW, I have the Promedia 5.1 (non ultra) so I'm using analog out, and I have never really used a digital connection for anything to be honest. Side note: Klipsch also makes very good HT equipment.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
