My rant about ATI.

[thilanliyan]

Acoording to DailyTech R600 will launch around mid-March (CEBIT) with availability shortly thereafter.

Please ATI...PLEASE don't be so late for your R700 launch. IIRC, R600 was supposed to launch with Vista and now it's been pushed back several months again. Every time they launch a product several months after NVidia, they lose market share. How do they expect to compete if they're always late? Granted when they DO launch it is a great product but by the time they do launch NVidia already has a refresh.

In my eyes ATI has been the underdog since after the Geforce 6 series launched, and at that time they were late with the X800 series. I always try to root for the underdog but it's getting more and more difficult when ATI is late every time. I hope it doesn't get to the point where ATI leaves the high-end because they aren't making enough sales because of a continuous loss of market share. It would be a sad day when us consumers (people who actually have to BUY they're video cards ) don't have as much choice. Another thing ATI has to change is their mid-end cards, which have always been a bit lacking compared NVidia's mid-end cards.

I bought my 8800GTS on launch day but if R600 was supposed to launch only maybe a month later I would have waited. As it turned out, I'm glad I didn't wait as I do enjoy the performance of the GTS (even if I don't always get to play the game I want until several driver updates...ahem...cough...Double Agent ).

Anyway, I really hope the R600 launch goes very well and we continue to have more choice. I don't think I'll spring for a R600 unless it completely blows away G80 in IQ (performance is already pretty high with G80 so I don't need any faster).

Oh and like I said before...PLEASE ATI, stop with the late launches. Give us a choice.

 

[JAG87]

so you want R600 or R700

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: JAG87
so you want R600 or R700

I WOULD have bought R600 had it launched around the same time as G80. I HAD to buy around that time because I needed to sell my 7900GTO (which I had for a month) before G80 launched since I figured demand would be somewhat lessened for it.

I WILL buy R700 if it launches around the same time as NVidia's next major GPU and has similar performance and IQ. Haha, but that's too far down the road I guess.

Who knows, maybe Intel will be making high-end GPUs by that time.

 

[KeithTalent]

So send ATIMD a letter/e-mail with your complaint. No need to preach to the choir

KT

 

[NoStateofMind]

Agreed OP. But I would also like to hope AMD's influence on ATi will change the "paper launches" into "hard launches" with subsequent GPU releases.

 

[Zenoth]

Acoording to DailyTech R600 will launch around mid-March (CEBIT) with availability shortly thereafter.

Are you surprised ? :S

Please ATI...PLEASE don't be so late for your R700 launch. IIRC, R600 was supposed to launch with Vista and now it's been pushed back several months again.

Any links from an official statement by AMD/ATi about that ? I am seriously asking, I am not trying to make you look bad.

Every time they launch a product several months after NVidia, they lose market share.

Even though I preferred ATi products so far and its consumer service over NVIDIA (maybe I've just been lucky, and I honestly do think I was so far, when I consider other's opinions even from one of my friend, but still, I like them) I will agree with you here. However right now ATi does not exist anymore as a company, and you should know it. AMD has a better body for absorbing market share looses if any, than ATi ever had.

How do they expect to compete if they're always late? Granted when they DO launch it is a great product but by the time they do launch NVidia already has a refresh.

That alone might be able to compensate. I'm not sure how many "ATi consumers" do it, but I always wait for their products, even if it comes late, before going with the competitor. Right now the GeForce 8 is tempting me, and it's terribly painful for me to wait for R600 or evenR620/R680, but I will wait despite the delays, because I am considering myself not an impulsive consumer/buyer, even though I do have enough money to go with a GeFore 8800 GTX and any R600 variant when it's released. I just know I can wait, and I do.

Another thing ATI has to change is their mid-end cards, which have always been a bit lacking compared NVidia's mid-end cards.

Well, look at my system's specs in my signature. I own the R520's mid-range variant, and it has always performed better than anything I've seen running with a similar GeForce 7800 GT. Not to mention that it is a little beast with over-clocking. There is indeed a down side though, is that if you want decent, or good OC'ing with it, you'll want a third-party cooling solution, that's fact that I cannot deny, and that I honestly actually fully embrace, because ATi's default cooling (at least the "old one", because R600 supposedly got rid of it and tweaked a new one) has been horrible. But as I say, mid-range solutions from ATi are actually quite good. And I almost forgot to mention the famous AIW X1900, that one is a beast for its price, and it'll smoke any 7800 GT or even 7900 GT you put against it due to the great shader performance.

I bought my 8800GTS on launch day but if R600 was supposed to launch only maybe a month later I would have waited. As it turned out, I'm glad I didn't wait as I do enjoy the performance of the GTS (even if I don't always get to play the game I want until several driver updates...ahem...cough...Double Agent ).

Well, good choice, and bad choice as well. Good choice because, indeed, the GeForce 8 series is superb, the very first NVIDIA GPU generation that I regard with respect and actually desire a lot. Bad choice because ... well, you could have been waiting longer. I say you've been tempted and succumbed to it. It's kinda pricey as well. But if you have the money, then I'm sorry to say it but you can't complain about anything. If you got some hard-earned money then dude, your choice is great and I hope you're going to keep it. Just don't do the same thing when R600 launches.

Anyway, I really hope the R600 launch goes very well and we continue to have more choice.

Well considering you immediately went for GeForce 8800 series where is the choice for you ?

If you do want choice then wait for both parties to release their respective products. Or else it's not a "choice" per say in the context you meant. You chose between GeForce 8800 high-end or mid-range, you went for high-end ... what a choice ! I'm sure you know what I mean here. Again I don't want to make you look ... erm, well. But hey, wait for AMD/ATi and then you'll have your choices.

I don't think I'll spring for a R600 unless it completely blows away G80 in IQ (performance is already pretty high with G80 so I don't need any faster).

You do not seem to care that much in the end about R600, now that you have G80 especially. I know what you mean though, we're kinda all looking for "the best out there", who isn't ? I am as well looking for that. But if G80 is better than R600 then there goes once more your whole concept of waiting for choices. You go for the best available, you don't wait for the "next big thing", and now you're trying to comfort yourself by hoping your money was well spent. You wouldn't have to worry about anything is you'd be waiting. Once both "equal" generations our out and available in stores, then you know you've made "the good choice".

Oh and like I said before...PLEASE ATI, don't launch R700 so late. Give us a choice.

Yeah ... well. Anyways.

 

[the Chase]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Agreed OP. But I would also like to hope AMD's influence on ATi will change the "paper launches" into "hard launches" with subsequent GPU releases.

Well I would hope so too but I don't think AMD cares too much about the vid card end of things. They probably switched all the vid card developement gurus and $ over to developing new chipsets.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Zenoth
Any links from an official statement by AMD/ATi about that ? I am seriously asking, I am not trying to make you look bad.

Yeah they weren't official statements but I know I remembered reading that somewhere...can't remember exactly where. And a launch with Vista actually made sense, that's why I believed that article.

However right now ATi does not exist anymore as a company, and you should know it. AMD has a better body for absorbing market share looses if any, than ATi ever had.

I agree with that but how much losses is AMD willing take before they get out of the high end altogether?

Well, look at my system's specs in my signature. I own the R520's mid-range variant, and it has always performed better than anything I've seen running with a similar GeForce 7800 GT. Not to mention that it is a little beast with over-clocking. There is indeed a down side though, is that if you want decent, or good OC'ing with it, you'll want a third-party cooling solution, that's fact that I cannot deny, and that I honestly actually fully embrace, because ATi's default cooling (at least the "old one", because R600 supposedly got rid of it and tweaked a new one) has been horrible. But as I say, mid-range solutions from ATi are actually quite good. And I almost forgot to mention the famous AIW X1900, that one is a beast for its price, and it'll smoke any 7800 GT or even 7900 GT you put against it due to the great shader performance.

I will agree with you there since I myself had a watercooled X1800XL at 675/600. That was the problem though...the cooling...and unfortunately we had to void the warranty to get better cooling.

Well considering you immediately went for GeForce 8800 series where is the choice for you ?

What I mean is that if R600 had launched in the same timeframe I would have had choice. Unfortunately I couldn't wait too long since I had to sell my previous card. That's why I hope ATI is not continuously late with GPU launches.

You do not seem to care that much in the end about R600, now that you have G80 especially. I know what you mean though, we're kinda all looking for "the best out there", who isn't ? I am as well looking for that. But if G80 is better than R600 then there goes once more your whole concept of waiting for choices. You go for the best available, you don't wait for the "next big thing", and now you're trying to comfort yourself by hoping your money was well spent. You wouldn't have to worry about anything is you'd be waiting. Once both "equal" generations our out and available in stores, then you know you've made "the good choice".

On the contrary I DO care about R600 and I hope it's marvelous in every aspect. My rant wasn't really about trying to justify the money I spent...because I mean come on, a high-end video card is hardly a necessity so how CAN you justify it. My rant is more about hoping that ATI can continue to flourish in the GPU market.

Originally posted by: the Chase

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Agreed OP. But I would also like to hope AMD's influence on ATi will change the "paper launches" into "hard launches" with subsequent GPU releases.

Well I would hope so too but I don't think AMD cares too much about the vid card end of things. They probably switched all the vid card developement gurus and $ over to developing new chipsets.

This is one of the things I hope won't happen...but AMD is a CPU company first and foremost so I suspect it WILL happen over time.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Agreed OP. But I would also like to hope AMD's influence on ATi will change the "paper launches" into "hard launches" with subsequent GPU releases.

They've had hard launches for some time. Both NV have had problems in the past with launches. Its time for people to recongnize that fact.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: thilan29

In my eyes ATI has been the underdog since after the Geforce 6 series launched, and at that time they were late with the X800 series.

ATI pretty much got lucky with the 9700/9800 series with Nvidia dropping the ball with it's terrible and late FX series. ATI has been late to the party on EVERY hardware generation before and after that, starting with the original Radeon.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Agreed OP. But I would also like to hope AMD's influence on ATi will change the "paper launches" into "hard launches" with subsequent GPU releases.

Looks like yet another paper launch.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4461

February 28th is the day where R600 card samples will be available to manufacturers and press while AMD continues working hard to launch R600 @ CeBIT

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5630

The card will launch at or around the Cebit 2007 convention in mid-March. Shipments will follow shortly after.

:thumbsdown:

 

[Pr0d1gy]

I don't care when they launch, I care about who is putting out the best card in my price range at the time i am looking to buy. That is all you guys should be caring about too. Worrying about all this stupid stuff is a waste of time & energy better spent doing more fun things. The fact you spend time in this forum arguing ATi v nVidia and the pros & cons of each company just shows how big a loser you really are. Go outside, breath some fresh air, do something different like talk to a woman who isn't related to you or working with you!

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
I care about who is putting out the best card in my price range at the time i am looking to buy.

Exactly...that was the point of my first post. My rant is about ATI being late (at least too late for me)...or I suppose NVidia being early, depending on how you look at it. At the time I wanted to buy there was not a whole lot of competition from ATI...so I bought NVidia. I just hope it doesn't always happen that ATI is late because they WILL lose business that way.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
I care about who is putting out the best card in my price range at the time i am looking to buy.

Exactly...that was the point of my first post. My rant is about ATI being late (at least too late for me)...or I suppose NVidia being early, depending on how you look at it. At the time I wanted to buy there was not a whole lot of competition from ATI...so I bought NVidia. I just hope it doesn't always happen that ATI is late because they WILL lose business that way.

Then ATi will learn from those mistakes or fall by the wayside. I am waiting for DX10 to actually come out before I waste money on something designed for it.

 

[the Chase]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
I don't care when they launch, I care about who is putting out the best card in my price range at the time i am looking to buy. That is all you guys should be caring about too. Worrying about all this stupid stuff is a waste of time & energy better spent doing more fun things. The fact you spend time in this forum arguing ATi v nVidia and the pros & cons of each company just shows how big a loser you really are. Go outside, breath some fresh air, do something different like talk to a woman who isn't related to you or working with you!

Time for Ackmed to pull out that picture of his bikini clad wife again. I can post and argue about all this drivel and still score. My son just turned 5 months old today!!

 

[Zebo]

6/10, I would have included thier sorry assed .net requiring bloated drivers too.

 

[40sTheme]

I think that AMD is, contrary to most beliefs, still encouraging high-end graphics production. I believe that, being smart people, they realize the still very prevalent opportunities opened by gaining ATi. If they are smart businesspeople, they will open up their doors and utilize the potential of working closely with a graphics powerhouse. If AMD doesn't follow this path, they are in some deep water if they don't start putting out some high end CPUs soon. I think that the only way AMD will ever get to the height of Intel is by using ATi's already inherent talents and apply them to creating something great with CPU/GPU relationships. While they are already a great maker of CPUs, not recognizing nor using their recent acquisition would be a misstep.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Zebo
6/10, I would have included thier sorry assed .net requiring bloated drivers too.

You could use ATI Tray Tools instead with the bare driver. Myabe it's just me but I have never had problems with ATI drivers (for a 9600XT, X800XL, X800GTO2, and X1800XL)...at the very least there are monthly releases.

I have definitely had troubles with my current GTS drivers...as other people have also mentioned. However, I never had trouble with my GF2 MX400 nor the 7900GTO I had.

 

[CP5670]

I have had various issues with both ATI and Nvidia drivers in the past. They both have their fair share of problems and you need to use third party tools with both of them to get the best out of them.

 

[Munky]

I would be more disappointed if there were actually any compelling reason to buy the g80 or the r600 cards right now, but there are no DX10 games available, and I'd be surprised if any got released before the r600 launch. Moreover, I'm more than reluctant to jump on the Vista bandwagon, and there'd have to be a big improvement in graphics quality brought by DX10 to convince me to switch. Even if the r600 was available now I still wouldnt buy it.

But I agree that the delay is hurting Amd marketshare and the lack of competition to the g80 isnt encouraging competitive pricing. For all its delay, the r600 better spank the g80 when it comes out or there will be a lot more disapointment.

 

[almach1]

nail in the coffin ! i'm getting a 8800gts

 

[imported_RedStar]

Forget red and green ...embrace the yellow phoenix ....wait for S3's solution (they are back) !

how i miss my S3 savage 4 and it's cutting edge compression technology (since incorporated into the direct X api).

Bleeding edge baby

the point? wait for choice as stated above somewhere

 

[ScrewFace]

Based on the success of the X1900/X1950 series and how a cheap X1900XT 256MB blew away the more expensive, slower 7950GT I believe the X2800XT is gonna be a power-house and people know it so many gamers will wait. After all, good things come to those who wait!

 

[JPB]

Being an underdog ( ATI ) is not really a bad thing. Maybe they like it that way.

 

[Creig]

I wouldn't really call AMD/ATI the underdog. Their hardware has been trading the top honors spot with Nvidia ever since the 9700 came out and they're not exactly a small company. So I would consider AMD and Nvidia to be simply direct competitors.

But they have been slower in getting their new cards to market than Nvidia. You have to admit that Nvidia has done a stellar job of releasing their new cards in a timely manner and getting them out in quantity.