My pet peeves with graphics in pc games and schools

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
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This is a bit long, but after encountering a new wave of recently graduated from school as 'game developers' demo reels I had to post.

I saw demo reels from people that I decided better to pretend I never saw. Usually I send people back feedback but this batch I couldn't do it. I didn't have the heart to tell someone who spent thousands of dollars and 2 years of their life at a school that it wasn't time well spent.

It isn't things that are that way because they have to be but instead are choices that have to consciously be chosen by the creator. Why they are doing them I can only assume is lack of experience .


Dark, colorless, bland environments. What is it with games that have the saturation for colors next to zero ? Unless you have some serious eye problems the world doesn't look like that. The bleak, almost black and white environments in a lot of games are good for some situations, but please stop with the muted colors.

Bloom effects. Way way way overused. When I enter a room on a level and everything white is glowing like it has its own internal power source it breaks immersion. I cannot recall any situation where I entered a room and a sheet of paper on a desk across the room was emitting its own light. The only time something should glow would be for a short time when someone goes from a dark to light environment, like from a cave onto a sandy beach. And then it shouldn't be permanent unless it is high noon with not a cloud in sight.

Texture sizes. I realize that when a game is ported from consoles to pc that there are limitations on texture sizes due to the limited ram on consoles. But when something is pc only I should not see a 96x96 texture stretched to fit a 600x400 space. I don't care how much filtering they use it will look like crap. There is no excuse for this on the pc . The difference in size is about 30KB. The only conclusion I can make is they reused assets because they were too lazy to create new ones. The same goes for textures that are aligned wrong, rotated, etc.

Bump mapping. Do they even know it exist ? The use of bump mapping is extremely rare in games for something that is so crucial to the look of graphics. When it is used it is often done like bloom where they crank it to 120% or turned down so low it has no effect.

I came from the world of cg animation and then went into doing some games work but the trend now seems to be people who are going straight to game work without a background in traditional forms of art. I think this is the root of the problem. Without that experience you are left trying to create scenes based on what you think is fine without understanding why it is not okay. The newer developers understand how the code, the engine and sdk work but not how color, light, perspective work to create a convincing scene.

People often comment that games from blizzard and bioware don't have that bland appearance and look different from the rest of the pack. There could be a very good reason for that. The artists at those companies are not people that do art because they like games and didn't learn art using only a pc, most have backgrounds with painting, sculpting, photography, sketching.

I hate to say it but expect more of the bland, lifeless games because lots of 'game' schools are popping up with an emphasis on the programs and not the art.

If you look at the difference in game schools and art schools that teach game development it is easy to see the differences.

Game schools typical curriculum - Design, organize, and build game demos.Integrate objects, environments, characters, and props into themed situations and stories for games.Demonstrate proficiency with technology related to contemporary game production.Model, texture and light 3D forms in a manner that meets industry standards.Show understanding of the physics of motion and convincingly manipulate objects, characters, fluids, semi-fluids, particles and gases.

Art schools curriculum-2-D Design,Color Theory,Survey of Western Art,20th-century Art,Aesthetics,Typography,Digital Design Aesthetics,Interactive Design and Game Development,Introduction to Game Development,Cognitive Art of Game Design,Fundamentals of Game Design


To me it is like teaching someone all about saws, hammers, fasteners and other tools and then telling them go build a house.

Unfortunately people are flocking to the game schools thinking that because they can load a model and click render that will give them a career. People that know the software 100% but can't create anything that will give them a career. The commercials and ads give the impression that anyone can be a game developer , you just learn the programs and bang you are a success. Gamers will be the one to pay the price with more of the same. Hopefully every once in a while a gem of a game will appear to break the cycle. Otherwise people might start to think that is what games are supposed to look like.

I only recommended 1 demo reel out of 34 . In that reel the person had not shown me an FPS demo or how 'cool' they thought their game ideas were, but instead it consisted of an opening with drawings of concept art, followed with a character that told me why they do art and how they hope they can bring games to life. The character on screen doing things like pulling samples of their work into the scene like a vortex opened. There wasn't a game screen shot or mention of software anywhere in the demo reel. If you are doing a demo reel don't go on and on about the software you trained on and all the details of the programs you learned, we really don't care. The guy had talent and will be hired because he gets what it is all about.
 

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
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Almost any monkey can be taught how to code. It's the design (or figuring out what needs to be coded) that takes the real work. It's a shame game schools aren't putting a larger emphasis on that and the art portion like you said.

I'm an EE major, however all of my programming teachers tried to emphasize that it is the designing or planning part that is important. Coding is constantly being outsourced, to be relevant you have to be able to do more than just write code.
 
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DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
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So what you're saying is that we should brace for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 18: Battle for Mars featuring maps which look like Fallujah viewed through red cellophane?
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
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So what you're saying is that we should brace for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 18: Battle for Mars featuring maps which look like Fallujah viewed through red cellophane?

Surprisingly MW2 is one of the FPSes with a great palette of colors despite being an apocalyptic setting.
 

PieIsAwesome

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2007
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I agree, there is no substitute for a solid art foundation. I used to be an animation major, and we were constantly reminded that, before we screw around with Wacom tablets, 3dsmax, etc., we need to be experts at drawing, painting, and sculpting by hand.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
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Time to piggyback on another person's genius in a vain attempt to appear witty and relevant. Yay!

EDIT: I remember when bump mapping first started coming out as a feature in games and video cards. Oh man, that was the shit. The brick wall has texture!!! But did they over do it when it first came out, everything had to be bump mapped to hell. I remember the same was done with colored lighting. Every FPS had to look like some neon disco because colored lighting was the new thing. I guess bloom is just the newest gizmo to cram down our throats. Annoying, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon.

070119.jpg
 
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KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
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I honestly think a big reason the whole dark and bland thing is popular with many newcomers is simple, it is easier to do. Don't need as much detail, don't need to understand color theory, and overall good flow.

That style has its place when needed. It can be done VERY well, but unfortunately everyone and their mother tries to do it and don't know why it works to start with and just copy shit.

What I don't get is, for a demo reel, these people should be rendering out assets with real high res textures, only reason not to do that is if you are showing off actual in game assets for a title that has shipped. Not using bump maps is about the laziest freaking thing. bump maps are so easy to make and really take very little effort for the visual gains you get. I agree with the bloom comment as well, if you don't know how to effectively use it then don't use it at all.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
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I honestly think a big reason the whole dark and bland thing is popular with many newcomers is simple, it is easier to do. Don't need as much detail, don't need to understand color theory, and overall good flow.

That style has its place when needed. It can be done VERY well, but unfortunately everyone and their mother tries to do it and don't know why it works to start with and just copy shit.

What I don't get is, for a demo reel, these people should be rendering out assets with real high res textures, only reason not to do that is if you are showing off actual in game assets for a title that has shipped. Not using bump maps is about the laziest freaking thing. bump maps are so easy to make and really take very little effort for the visual gains you get. I agree with the bloom comment as well, if you don't know how to effectively use it then don't use it at all.

I also wonder if the dark and brown environments is done out of pure artistic laziness. It's so easy to just desaturate and tone down the colors when you want it to look artsy. The use of shadows and light in Sin City really made the atmosphere. Saving Private Ryan used washed out handheld cameras that gave a sense of documentarianism (is that a real word?), grittiness, and age. Stuff like that has probably been caught in the minds of younger people these days.

So, need it to feel gritty? BROWN! Need nostalgia? FILM GRAIN (with a touch of sepia)!

I'm kind of glad that film grain hasn't caught on in the same sense. I've seen it used in a few games (Day of Defeat most prominant) but it doesn't really seem to work for me in the manner that they want.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
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Art design in FAR more important to a games visual appeal than how many times you process each texel.
I always CRY when I see a new title with too much work in the wrong direction. People forgot how to make pretty games. I think we are in a CRYSIS of overdeveloped crap these days.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
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What I don't get is, for a demo reel, these people should be rendering out assets with real high res textures, only reason not to do that is if you are showing off actual in game assets for a title that has shipped.

I think that is an idea they get from the curriculum these schools are teaching, that because they can make a game level it means they should be hired. I wish they would hammer home to these students that they have about 30 seconds to get the attention of the viewer in their demo reel. If the first 30 seconds start out with this is my level and I added this and made it like this, the viewer is going to press the stop button.

To make things worse I can't believe the number of people that have taken assets from shipped games and put them in their demo reels with things like colors changed or details added. They think they can outsmart the people that watch the reels by using an asset stolen from a game. If the rest of their work sucks and all of a sudden they have this great textured and modeled character it usually is either a game asset or a downloaded /purchased model.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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Good art design is definitely more important than the game engine's technical features or the graphics card's ability to push polygons or do soft shadows at high fps.

It's sad that the art staff being cranked out by the game schools apparently know tools more than art.

I'd much rather play an older game with excellent visual design like Vampire: Bloodlines than Mudland Battle 24 running on SLI GTX 480s with shaderiffic bloomination engine IV.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
I think that is an idea they get from the curriculum these schools are teaching, that because they can make a game level it means they should be hired. I wish they would hammer home to these students that they have about 30 seconds to get the attention of the viewer in their demo reel. If the first 30 seconds start out with this is my level and I added this and made it like this, the viewer is going to press the stop button.

To make things worse I can't believe the number of people that have taken assets from shipped games and put them in their demo reels with things like colors changed or details added. They think they can outsmart the people that watch the reels by using an asset stolen from a game. If the rest of their work sucks and all of a sudden they have this great textured and modeled character it usually is either a game asset or a downloaded /purchased model.

I agree. At least when I attended school they did make it an big issue and drove it home and home again that we have 15 secs or so to make a good impression before the person watching turns off the reel. I've seen people use assets from games, but at least they did in the credits say that is where they did get them from. But yeah, I have seen a few models that were popular on various sites being used and pushed as their own. It is like hello, if you a beginner in this field found that site you don't think the person watching your reel hasn't, lol.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
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Dark, colorless, bland environments. What is it with games that have the saturation for colors next to zero ? Unless you have some serious eye problems the world doesn't look like that. The bleak, almost black and white environments in a lot of games are good for some situations, but please stop with the muted colors.

I wished the creators of Borderlands were told this. I can barely differentiate anything in that game because everything is a shade of gray.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
4,032
1,530
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bad reels are bad reels. there will always be people who don't get it about what to show and how to show it. I've seen some fairly polished reels from some schools though. As with all things it is usually more dependent on the student than anything else.

The darkMuddle that is current game design can't be blamed on the students, they are just copying what they see. The brown school comes directly from all the Lead Art directors on all the popular grim and gritty shooters.
Play a drinking game: everytime a new game comes out and has soldier in 'techy armor with glowing bits' holding some bastardized M41A pulse rifle from Aliens, take a drink.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
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Mind telling us what company you work for Modelworks?

I try to keep that information low profile for a couple reasons. Once you openly publish who you work for you get questions like , what programs do they use, people wanting to know details about company projects, people asking for referrals, or people wanting you to critique their work .

I like to be helpful but sometimes it is nice to just be a person and not someone targeted because of where they work.

I can say I currently am freelancing because I want to stay close to home where my parents are. They are getting up there in years, dad is 81 this year and I turned down a pretty good job at Blizzard last year , but you only get one set of parents :)

I was asked by a friend at a former studio I worked at to help him go through some demo reels they had received . They get several hundred a month. I just didn't expect to see what I did.
 

CU

Platinum Member
Aug 14, 2000
2,417
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I understand especially working for a big company like Epic or Blizzard. I worked for Nova Gaming doing slot machines for awhile until some counties in Alabama started outlawing electronic bingo. That almost killed the company and resulted in 90% of the engineers getting laid off. One was me. Wanted to move on to doing video games, but didn't want to move out West because my wife and I are from SC. Wish there were more gaming companies near by. NC has a few in the Research Triangle, but Epic is alittle hard to start out at though.

I will say the artist we got from Full Sail were very talented although I have a very limited art background just enough to get bye. The programmers were not bad actually one was very good, but they really needed a bigger range of skills. I think 2 years is just not enough for most programmers that want to create games. I have a master in CPSC and specialized in graphics, so I may be to hard on the programmers and not hard enough on the artist. But the games they did did not have dull graphics. The games we were working on at the end blew away graphically anything we had done before and anything I had seen at a casino. To bad no one was left to finish them.
 
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coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Is there a link that we can view these demo reels? [or more specifically what schools they were sent from]?

I think the blame can be placed on the schools & teachers more so than the students. School needs to be profitable - so they'll let any jack or jane attend as long as they do the work and pay the fees. I doubt the teachers are going to "fail" a student for subpar work - as long as the student completes the assignments... they are good to go.

Not sure how it works in the gaming field - but typically how it works at most companies - get the basic training [school], prove you know how to use the basic tools and convince companies you're not an idiot [interview], get hired [yeehaw!], then get trained to work with their tools [training school/classes].
 

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
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Terrible attitude and the reason so much code sucks ass these days.

It's not a bad attitude. A lot of code sucks now days because people put too much emphasis on the coding portion, and not the design portion.

If you designed your method or program for solving a problem or implementing something inefficiently, all the coding in the world won't save you.

To stay relevant, good programs need to be able to do more than just code.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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It's not a bad attitude. A lot of code sucks now days because people put too much emphasis on the coding portion, and not the design portion.

If you designed your method or program for solving a problem or implementing something inefficiently, all the coding in the world won't save you.

To stay relevant, good programs need to be able to do more than just code.

The problem is, at least where I work, the people who design the program I work on have no idea about coding. They just want end product. If those of us working on are mediocre programmers, things don't get implemented correctly or efficiently. A lot of times the designs don't detail exactly how to code things. Sure, most novice programmers could give you an end product, but good luck maintaining it.

Code sucks because people who are coding are lazy. And it sounds to me like the "future game developers" are as well. Hopefully this isn't a trend that continues, but I think we all know it will be. Innovation can be done by coders in engine and design of processing information, but nobody is doing that anymore; at least nobody in the gaming industry.
 

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,239
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The problem is, at least where I work, the people who design the program I work on have no idea about coding. They just want end product. If those of us working on are mediocre programmers, things don't get implemented correctly or efficiently. A lot of times the designs don't detail exactly how to code things. Sure, most novice programmers could give you an end product, but good luck maintaining it.

Code sucks because people who are coding are lazy. And it sounds to me like the "future game developers" are as well. Hopefully this isn't a trend that continues, but I think we all know it will be. Innovation can be done by coders in engine and design of processing information, but nobody is doing that anymore; at least nobody in the gaming industry.

I think we're in agreement then. Good programmers do more than just code and spit something out.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
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Is there a link that we can view these demo reels? [or more specifically what schools they were sent from]?


No. They are not online . The way it works is they send the reel on dvd along with the resume and any printed work. It needs to be playable in a regular dvd player and not in some special codec. If it doesn't play the sender will not likely even receive a "I couldn't play the dvd" response unless the resume looks really interesting. Some places will accept website links to work, but it isn't too common. Mainly because people that review the reels are not sitting at a pc but like to do it in a room with others using a regular dvd player.

I guess to some it might sound like studios are being harsh or uncaring but the reality is they get a hundred of these . If they responded to each one or tried to troubleshoot why the demo reel will not play it would take too much time.


The main thing to avoid are schools that are taking anyone who can pay the tuition. If you look at the curriculum and the first things they list are 3d modeling, level design, or anything like that where they immediately start teaching how to use a program find somewhere else. Also places that start off with things like "You can earn $75,000 with this degree" should be avoided.


I will not go into specific schools to avoid but here is some I would look at if I were entering the field.
http://www.ringling.edu/
http://www.fullsail.edu/
http://www.fiea.ucf.edu/joomla/index.php


If you want to learn online from home I would look at animation mentor.
http://www.animationmentor.com/school/
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/

If you already have the art background look at digital tutors site as well. For about $40 a month you get full access to lots of training that some of those 'game development' schools would teach regarding programs and such.

http://www.digitaltutors.com/09/index.php

There is something special about the world of digital art. Studios at the end of the day don't care what classes you took or what degree you have. They only care about what you can do . I met someone working on 2012 that had never finished high school and also was dyslexic. He spent his time learning on his own by going online , reading and practicing. His work can be seen in a lot of that movie. The movie wasn't great but I thought the effects were good :sneaky:
 
Mar 11, 2004
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If in 2 years of schooling they can mold you so that you can't be creative, then chances are you wouldn't be any way.

Sure it sucks for them (and you having to be inundated with their work), but fact is, that's true of tons of industries, even ones that supposedly are focused on the creative aspects.

To me, the people people you're describing aren't lacking creatively/artistically, they're just plain lacking all around, as it seems like they don't even have the capability of really properly handling the technical aspects either. They're the ones that should get relegated filler duties so that the more talented can work on more major aspects. Being given small duties might help them to understand bigger things (for instance have them focus on just making a barrel, making it look realistic or match the artistic style, proper color, detail, but not be wasteful of resources).
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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I think we're in agreement then. Good programmers do more than just code and spit something out.

I wasn't trying to disagree with you. One of the major problems with today's games (at least how I feel) is that innovation is no longer needed to make a game. A good amount of these great games we speak of weren't able to be made until that engine was coded or that advancement was made. That is really no longer needed. Anyone can shit out something using a readily available engine.