My new Xeon SMP system

[XeonTux]

I just got my new dual slot 2 motherboard ($150), PII Xeon 450/100/512 processors ($50 ea), and VRM in the mail today. I'm still waiting on my Corsair memory stick (bastard just mailed it today) so I can actually fire this bad boy up! Right now all I can do is say "oh, look how big and purty those xeons are!"

Those xeons ARE pretty fscking big and heavy! And my mobo did not come with a dual retention mechanism. But an ms440gx (?-might be) for $150 instead of $500+ I can't bitch.

Does anyone know where I can find a dual retention mechanism? I saw one once but I forgot where. I don't think egay is a good place to find these, based on how much people overpay for the VRMs that appear there. (Looking for a VRM? Justdeals has 'em for 23.99, cheaper than used on egay) Searching the web numerous times hasn't turned any up. Usually they come with the mobos.


EDIT: Title change

 

[XeonTux]

PLEASE! Surely someone must know where I can find one? No Xeon users here? (I'm trying to bring this thread back to top)

 

[XeonTux]

bump

 

[XeonTux]

Out of all the brains on this board surely someone has some Xeon building experience!

I found that Supermicro has SKT-064 Xeon Dual Retention Mechanism and FAN-019 40cm 3-pin fans w/ tachometer. I've emailed support@supermicro to see if this would work for me in my MS440GX derivative. I don't know how long it will take to get a response, but if anyone here has insight on this I'd sure like to hear it. I would really like to place an order for this TODAY. *sigh*

 

[Ulfwald]

Try cyberguys they seem to have quite a bit of off the wall stuff. I have ordered from them and they are great about shipping.

 

[XeonTux]

Thanks for the response, but I can't find that they have it.

 

[Jhereg]

Try www.supermicro.com also if the guy sold you the board it should come with the hardware.
Yup I have built such a bad boy... it smokes. Make sure you get the dual cpu fan kit as well

www.supermicro.com

 

[Jhereg]

here ya go :


SKT-064 Xeon CPU retention mechanism set (for two Xeon) US$ 10.00 US$ 5.00 http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/accessories.htm

 

[XeonTux]

yeah, see my post at 2:24pm. I wasn't sure if it would work for me tho so I emailed their support. Still haven't heard back but I did call the local supermicro dealer, motherboardsexpress, who didn't have it but verified it will work. I left a message with the central US supermicro sales rep but she still hasn't called me back. I needed this to ship today 2-day so I could have it Thursday

I don't think I'll be able to boot the board even when I get the memory unless I have 2 fans w/ tachs for the drm hooked up...at least thats my opinion after reading Intel docs. However the Gateway site doesn't mention this or even that a drm was needed. The need for a drm was blatently obvious when I saw the size of the processors. This is a Gateway overstock board but appears to be a MS440GX minus the integrated video and sound, not like I'd use them anyways. The tag on the bag even said "www.intel.com". I didn't get it thru a normal retail channel and it doesn't include all the hardware. As long as I get this running this week before my DOA warrenty is up I'm fine.

Someone else in another place told me that I should have gotten the boxed set so everything was included, but obviously they never priced these. I'm building a dual Xeon system for the price of a dual celeron system. So I can't complain if it takes a little more work.

Heh, I just found something cool too. I don't know how many other mobos are the same way but Intel has a utility for this board that will convert a BMP and flash the BIOS to make a custom POST logo. The only downside is I might have to install windows on a partition in order to do this if I don't find a linux utility to do it. It might be more trouble than it's worth then because I only see my system reboot every few months or so...Usually when the power fails. I'm thinking Brute's KMFMS graphic would look way cool.

 

[xyyz]

where did you get this stuff at that price? I want a setup too now...

 

[TheOverlord]

where did you find the mobo and chips for that cheap...i can find asetup like that for less than 400 bucks!

 

[XeonTux]

I really wanted to test it out first before I recommended it to friends. I will say that he was very fast in shipping.

I saw a dutch auction on egay a while back where pcparts@voyager.net was selling these for $149. I missed the auction but he sold me one anyway for this price. He is now selling them for $179, but doesn't appear to be selling as many so who knows the price may go back down. Before they were $149 they were $199. This is kinda like the stock market or something. I can tell this IS a new board. Search the net and compare prices. This is BY FAR THE CHEAPEST YOU WILL FIND. If you do get one thru him, be sure to tell him JJS referred you. No I don't get kickbacks or anything but who knows it might help me establish a relationship for the future.

You will need Xeon processors with matching steppings which are dirt cheap on egay. Best thing to do is search for "Xeon" in computers only so you don't get headlights. I got (2) PII Xeon 450/100/512. When the price of used PIII Xeons comes down I will upgrade. But note the board is limited to 100Mhz FSB. I can live with that.

You will also need a VRM, $23.99 at Justdeals.com Fsck egay for these, you'll pay more!

DRM and (2) 4cm 3-pin w/tach fans hopefully will come from supermicro. Once again egay is the wrong place for these. Everyone is realizing they can build a xeon cheap now but only know how to get parts on egay, there are a limited number of VRMs and DRMs there, so naturally the law of supply and demand makes the prices high. Yes, used prices higher than new prices...hard to believe!

You will need a case with mounts for the DRM, and probably slightly larger than average. Fong Kai 320, YeongYang has some...I haven't decided yet for mine. The auction states "any ATX case" but thats kinda BS, although you could probably make it work.

You WILL need ECC memory! Registered is optional. But you cannot mixed registered with non-registered (unbuffered). I did spend a little extra and got a Corsair 256MB registered stick for $170. I figured it's probably the right thing to do since I'm planning SMP!

No this system will not help you pitiful Win ME lam3rs! Linux should rock, and if you insist on running Windows 2000 it should rock too...well as much as windows can. And don't plan on overclocking.

After I get thru all this maybe I'll make a web site to help people build xeon systems. Seems to be the one thing the web is lacking. But Xeons have always been EXTREMELY overpriced. Lord knows it could've helped me, this is new territory. Good idea?

 

[XeonTux]

I really don't know about supermicro parts now... Even though MotherboardsExpress said it would work, here is my communication with supermicro. I must add that I find it amusing how they "do not" suggest contacting Intel haha, learn how to communicate!



Subject: RE: Is your Xeon Retention Mechanism usable with Intel MS440GX? NEED QUICK!
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:06:50 -0800
From: Technical Support <Support@supermicro.com>
To: &quot;'Jeremy'&quot; <jjs@owc.net>

I am not sure Sir, the spacing is a matter of layout on the motherboard and it is a very good chance it will not fit (bottom two mounting points), the top two are standard ATX mounting holes, what Intel uses we do not suggest you contact Intel since they had to make retention module for this motherboard.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy [mailto:jjs@owc.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 12:53 PM
To: support@supermicro.com
Subject: Is your Xeon Retention Mechanism usable with Intel MS440GX?
NEED QUICK!

I have a Intel MS440GX motherboard in need of a dual retention mechanism. Will your SKT-064 Dual Retention Mechanism and a pair of
FAN-019 4cm 3-pin w/tach fans work for me? I would mount both fans in
the DRM.

Mounting hole spacing appears to be approx 2-9/16&quot; x 6-11/16&quot;

I would appreciate a fast response. If these will work I would want to ORDER TODAY for 2-day UPS or similar delivery service.

Thanks.



Maybe I should get them anyway, I can always profit off egay if they dont work!

Fsck, time to go to my LUG meeting!

 

[robg1701]

&quot;what Intel uses we do not suggest you contact Intel since they had to make retention module for this motherboard.&quot;

Im not sure that should be taken as it seems, i think it was supposed to read &quot;what Intel uses, we do not. Suggest you contact Intel, since they had to make retention module for this motherboard.&quot;

ie, the person was actually saying something along the lines of &quot;.....is what intel uses, not what we do. We suggest you contact intel, since they must have made a retention module for this motherboard.&quot;

Just my thoughts....

 

[XeonTux]

You are probably right... I didn't take it literally, but some people really need to learn how to communicate properly! I don't always write the proper way, especially places like this. But when it comes to business it is necessary to do so.

But back to the DRM: should I cross my fingers and buy these, or does someone know of a better place? After all, the MotherboardsExpress rep assured me he knew what he was talking about and felt positive that these would work. The Supermicro rep might just be ignorant due to the fact I don't have their mobo. I think the hole spacing should be consistant between manufacturers, or there would be an issue for the xeon-ready case designers.

Well, if the sales rep returns my call tomorrow I guess I'll order and find out. If anyone knows different please let me know!

 

[Kwad Guy]

A few corrections:

1) While it is recommended you use processors with matching
steppings, I don't believe that is required.
2) Justdeals seems to have a good price on the VRM. But watch
out for shipping. Justdeals charges generally outrageous
shipping.
3) If you buy Xeon processors, pay attention to the attached
heatsink. The cheapest ones frequently do not have the
heatsinks at all. Others may have strange oversized heatsinks
specially made for a particular manufacturer and board.
If you need to buy new heatsinks, factor in at least another
$15 per Xeon.
4) 100Mhz FSB is not a limitation for Xeon systems. The only
&quot;real&quot; Xeon processors have 100Mhz FSB. Any Xeons with 133Mhz
FSB are simply standard Coppermine processors in a Slot 2
shell, with the standard Coppermine 256kb of cache. &quot;Real&quot;
Xeons start with 512Kb of cache, and can have as much as 2Mb
of cache. In my opinion, the real &quot;steal&quot; in the Xeon lines
at this time is PII 450Mhz / 2Mb cache processors, which you
can find for around $200 +/-. But of course, if you want
to build a super-cheapo system, you won't go this route.

Kwad

 

[XeonTux]

#1 - mixing steppings: Yeah I've seen that, but why take the risk of instability when you can easily find matching steppings with the recent availability of budget Xeons? I think some steppings work with other steppings but others won't.

#2 - VRM: still cheaper than egay, where people tend to inflate shipping costs even more!

#3 - heatsink: and it seems on egay many don't have them at all. People likely keep these when they upgrade. Luckilly mine did. Something for shoppers to keep in mind.

#4 - 256k xeons, what a rip-off eh? At least for most applications. IIRC (but sometimes I don't) coppermines are limited to either 2-way or 4-way SMP while their Xeon brothers are happy up to 8-way. I honestly haven't paid close attention to this because it's beyond both my needs and my budget.

I wouldn't of minded getting 1MB versions, but for my desktop use there's prob not that much of a difference from 512. 512k is 4x bigger than the dual-celeron system I was planning to build, and 2x as fast as my current PIIs. 2MB would be overkill for me but if you do some intense work or run a server these are the way to go. Also the most sought after, and egay auctions will be competitive.

 

[XeonTux]

I must say that I was getting quite pissed at supermicro's sales people. I left messages for days, and only today did I finally get in touch wih my area's rep. Turns out you must order parts like this (DRM and fans) thru the RMA department. Sure would have been nice if they would have returned my call to tell me that.

I did find a contact for Intel's supplier of DRM's on Intel's site. I called them up, but they want $60 for that peice of plastic. They also don't take credit cards and I'd have to mail a cashier's check. Plus they are waiting on material in order to produce them.

So I decided to give the supermicro DRM (1/6 the cost) and fans a try...

 

[TheOverlord]

keep us updated on how it goes with the supermicro DRM, if it works out ill have to seriously consider getting one of these setups...

 

[XeonTux]

So close!

Just got my DRM and fans today. It appears that it will work! I only put one side up to the board so far but everything seems cool.

My Fong-Kai FK-320 should be here tomorrow per UPS' email! Hope everything works! Fsckin better!

 

[TheOverlord]

whats the latest did they work?

 

[paruhd0x]

Is that the voltage regulator? I needed one when I upgraded my xeon system to dual... it was a gateway system so I ordered the part from them.

 

[TheOverlord]

no it was for the retention clips to hold the chips firmly upright...he was having trouble finding some that would work...but looks liek he might have, we'll see

 

[XeonTux]

Yes, the SuperMicro DRM (Dual Retention Mechanism) does work just fine! (against the advice of SuperMicro Tech Support I might add) I would recommend this over Hartzell Mfg's, who originally supplied Intel, because they want way too much money and a cashiers check. Fsck that.

The only (slight) problem I encountered was that I needed (4) standoffs to mount the DRM to the case through the motherboard holes. These did not come with the DRM nor my case. The DRM screws are slightly wider than normal mobo screws, so normal standoffs wont work. A trip to the local store I used to work at as a tech in HS scored me some for free...and I might have even found a job there too (Still waiting to find out about that)

Oh, and I bought an extra 9cm case fan with my FK320 case to use as a front fan. As it turns out the rear fan that came with the case expected to be plugged in to the mobo. Since this stripped-down mobo doesn't have all the fan connectors I had to use the new fan as the rear fan. The 2 fan connectors the mobo does have are rated at 150mA, enough for the DRM fans but NOT a large fan. And the I/O shield does not match up to the mobo, spacing is off between USB and PS2 ports. I still need to contact Fong Kai about this.

Everything went together easily, who needs instructions anyway?

So I now have a sweet Xeon SMP system. Works like a charm. Well, Mandrake 7.2 has some issues... but the hardware side is perfect.


$150 MS440GX motherboard (eGay...sort of)
$100 Pair of PII Xeon 450/100/512 (eGay)
$010 Dual Retention Mechanism (Supermicro)
$022 Pair of 4cm DRM fans (Supermicro)
$024 Voltage Regulator Module (JustDeals)
$170 Corsair 256MB Registered ECC SDRAM (eGay)
$100 Fong Kai FK320 case (Directron)
$013 9cm case fan (Directron)
$035 Promise ATA/100 Controller (Buy.com)
$150 IBM 45GB 75GXP 7200RPM ATA/100 HD (Buy.com)
$000 32x IDE CD-ROM (from old system)
$000 Voodoo3 3000 AGP (from old system)
$000 1.44MB floppy (had sitting around)
$000 Sound Blaster 16 IDE (from old system)
$000 Logitech Keyboard (from old system)
$000 Logitech Firstmouse Plus (from old system)
$000 Generic 19&quot; monitor (from old system)
--------------------------------------
$775 actually more than I hoped to spend

Shhh... Don't tell my family this is the real reason I can't afford to travel to see them this Christmas! Well it wouldn't have been so bad had I not lost my job just after I started buying this stuff

I still need a better video card, sound card, SCSI CDRW, maybe SCSI HD too, and when I find a good deal on PIII Xeons I'll jump on it.


BTW you guys missed a MS440GX mobo on eGay with a Buy It Now price of only $100. As tempted as I was to buy it, my unemployed ass cannot afford it, but I did post it in OT ~4:00 am this morning. It's sold now though...sorry.



Your opinion needed:
I've been thinking about creating a web site devoted to workstations, mainly Xeon but maybe other SMP systems too... I know there's places like 2cpu.com, but I had trouble finding resources on the web that dealt with Xeons. I've wanted to build a site for years but its hard to find an area that doesn't exist already. And I'll have a reason to play in the GIMP and maybe a little Perl too, besides it would give me something to do with all this spare time besides sitting on AT Things on my mind that I could include: Specifications comparisons between motherboards, Xeon-ready cases, Good places to find components- it was difficult finding a DRM, a message board, Links to other pertinent sites of course, and whatever else I can think of. Do you guys think it would be worth doing this? If so and if I decide to do it, I would gladly accept any links to other good xeon-related information you may know of. Lemmeno

My longest post ever, I think!

 

[TheOverlord]

wow 750 for the whole smash...i remember when i went with my dad to buy our first computer...we decided to get the &quot;big&quot; 40mb hdd which pushed the price to over 2000 bucks...but man the 286 could haul....

haha, nice to see a great system made and working! i tihnk you have a good idea about a nice comparison site...i offer you this one tip ive picked up:

you must come up with soemthing that makes your site unique from other similar sites, whatever that may be. keep us posted at AT with how things are going...