My new crashing Shuttle SN25P

BadMonkey130U

Junior Member
Jan 25, 2005
23
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I finally put the guts into my new beast, the SN25P and fired it up. Loaded Windows XP Pro with no problems, it recognized my WD 250GB SATA HD ok without installing any extra drivers. Damn it takes forever to format a 250GB HD! After letting it run for a few minutes I started loading programs. Maybe an hour later it shut off from the desktop and restarted. When I tried use it again it would power off about 2 seconds after going to the desktop from the login screen; it did this about 10 times. I started it in safe mode (F8, F8, F8, F8, F8....) and it worked just fine, I had been afraid that my CPU was overheating or something. I did a "System Restore" back to the beginning and started installing programs again; this time I installed 1 and waited a while, powered it off and returned to the desktop. 4 programs later it crashed again; system restore again. Ah ha, a suspect! I reinstalled everything from the system restore point in the same order; everything was fine until I got to my Zone Alarm Pro v4.5.594, then the crash. I've long been a fan of Zone Alarm but maybe it's not compatible with my MB. I know what you may be thinking, maybe it was fighting with the NVidia firewall; I hadn't installed the NVidia firewall at all until it became apparent that using Zone Alarm was a no-go. I'm very happy with this Shuttle SN25P; this comp is screamin' fast compared to what it's replacing, my old Dell Inspiron 8000 laptop.
I hope that this info helps someone avoid the head banging horror of what I went through.
 

eastvillager

Senior member
Mar 27, 2003
519
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Make sure you're using the very latest nforce drivers during your winxp build. Somebody else had problems with that, somehow got old drivers by accident.
 

RaiderJ

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2001
7,582
1
76
I'd get the drivers from NVIDIA, Shuttle may not have the most current ones available.

How do you like your system? Thinking about getting one myself.
 

TheCanuck

Senior member
Apr 28, 2003
373
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0
I had this happen once on an Nforce2 system -- definitely turned out to be the drivers. The only way to fix it is to completely uninstall the old ones first (AGP, chipset, sound, etc), then install the latest ones. If you just install the new drivers over the old ones it may still be unstable (mine was).
 

Samus

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,405
7
81
I'm havign chronic reboots/shutdowns with mine. It's an absolute piece of crap. Still waiting for shuttle to reply to my email

"Ever since I've had this thing, when I shake or move the table it is on, or even plug a USB device in the front, the movement of the XPC case (just by touching buttons) powers it off. It seems as if there is a loose connection somewhere, but I have looked over everything and it seems fine. Is this a known issue for this model?

It keeps turning off on me while I work, wether I set a glass down on the table or try to eject a CD. It consistently powers off when I remove my USB Key or any usb device from the front. I don't think its USB related, just that it jiggles the case when I pull a USB device out of the port causing it to power down. I've looked over the CMOS settings to make sure it isn't a heat related alarm, but the system runs at 35c.

I'm ready to return this unit to Newegg as I am very disappointed with it. Like my last Shuttle product (SN85G4) this one is failing shortly after purchase (less than a month) and has infact had this problem the whole time I had it, when I originally just thought it was the USB ports. I need a resolution ASAP, this is a business computer and was VERY expensive ($2000+) to build as it is your most expensive unit."
 

AmigaMan

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
3,644
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We use a LOT of Shuttle XPC's where I work and we just went through a batch that had faulty fans/connectors. Personally I had two fans and one power-supply get replaced. Since then I switched to using my personal laptop for development. I need a machine that wouldn't just shutoff in the middle of writing code and wipe out everything I had done since the previous save.
 

jdogg707

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2002
6,098
0
76
Wow, my SN25P is working extremely well. Have you tried updating the BIOS to the latest version? Also, you might want to checkout SFFTech Forums, as they are a large community dedicated to SFF machines, with many users that have a SN25P. As mentioned before, download the drivers for Audio from Via, for Chipset from Nvidia, as well as video drivers from Nvidia. I remember reading on SFF Tech that a couple of users were having problems with the SN25P and PQI memory, so this may be the cause of your problem. Good Luck!
 

R3MF

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
656
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0
i'm sorry you are having such a rough time, i built my sn25p last week and it has performed perfectly. :(
 

RaiderJ

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2001
7,582
1
76
My SN25P had issues with my IDE burner & IDE hard drive.... swapped out the DVD-RW and everything worked fine. EMI issues maybe?
 

SUOrangeman

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
8,361
0
0
I'm considering an SN25P. The global Shuttle site is down right now, but am I correct in thinking that this box has a 1x PCI-E slot along with the 16x slot? If so, what comes in 1x PCI-E these days? Maybe an occasional SCSI/fiber controller or Gb adapter? Anything else?

-SUO
 

jdogg707

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2002
6,098
0
76
Originally posted by: SUOrangeman
I'm considering an SN25P. The global Shuttle site is down right now, but am I correct in thinking that this box has a 1x PCI-E slot along with the 16x slot? If so, what comes in 1x PCI-E these days? Maybe an occasional SCSI/fiber controller or Gb adapter? Anything else?

-SUO

You are correct in both regards. I haven't seen anything else on PCIe 1x yet, but expect that to change in the coming months.
 

R3MF

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
656
0
0
ageia PPU will come in PCIE1x, as will the new creative soundblaster card, not that you need it. i would not be surprised if the new gen home theatre cards were PCIE1x too.

change is coming, content yourself with the knowledge that the SN25P is nearly feature complete just out-the-box.
 

SUOrangeman

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
8,361
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Admittedly, the SN25P really doesn't need anything more than what it has. However, I had seen some snippets on the SN26P, which will be SLI-ready with two 16x PCI-E slots. While I don't have any intention of ever running SLI, the difference between the two models made me wonder what may be possible with that second PCI-E slot.

Anyway, my first SFF love was the Iwill ZMAXdp. I'd probably have one by now if it only had a few more SATA ports onboard (but I would have made it work nonetheless!). I've recently made the decision to "settle" on an SN25P with a dual-core CPU. Then Iwill started teasing with the ZMAXd2 (imagine four Opteron cores and SLI in an SFF!) and Shuttle didn't help with the SN26P.

-SUO
 

lukewarmmizer

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2005
2
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I am having the exact same problem described at the top of this thread, but the latest drivers dont seem to help, in fact they seem to cause the problem. I have WinXP SP2 installed, and everything works fine until I try to load the the Nvidia IDE SW drives to access my SATA Raid array... once they are installed, the machine reboots, and then continually reboots until you select "last known good configuration" from the boot menu, effectively uninstalling these drivers. I had to install to an IDE drive so that I did not have to load these drivers to even get Windows installed. I have downloaded the latest chipset drivers from Nvidia, to no avail. Hearing that the BenQ firmware may be incompatible, I flashed it to G7V9, release on 6/8/05, but no go. As soon as the IDE SW drivers are installed, the problem surfaces. Any suggestions that can be given would be greatly appreciated.

My setup:
Shuttle SN25P
AMD Athlon64 3500+ (Newcastle)
Micron 1GB PC3200 400MHz 64x8 DDR x 2
XFX PVT43GND GeForce 6600 GT PCI Express 128MB
BenQ DW1620 16X DVD±RW
Seagate Barracuda 250GB SATA HD x 2
IBM Deskstar 20GB IDE

I have installed the v71.89 video drivers and the v6.53 chipset drivers, which are:
* Audio driver 4.60 (WHQL)
* Audio utilities 4.51
* Ethernet driver 4.75 (WHQL)
* SMBus driver 4.45 (WHQL)
* Installer 4.60
* IDE NVIDIA driver 5.18 (WHQL)
 

lukewarmmizer

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2005
2
0
0
Got it!

So at some point I flashed my DVD burner back to G7T9 (though I promise I had gone to GTV9 yesterday and failed). To fix, I went back to the BenQ website, and this time downloaded the 1620 Pro firmware for G7V9, and voila, I can use my RAID array and reboot all at the same time.

This can be a problem if you want to install to a RAID array using your BenQ DVD burner since you can't flash the driver first. I may still reinstall to get to this point now that I have it working, but I dont want to jinx a working install.

-j
 

dlevens

Junior Member
Jun 29, 2005
14
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Figured I would chime in here, for any issues with reboots, freezing etc, it is more likley your sata cables than driver related. I assume you are on sata and not ide? Take a look at this thread as many have found the sata cables, especially using the top of the cube cables to be faulty.

As far as drivers I am heading back to trying the original cd drivers that came with the box. Again many are finding issues with the updates on shuttle and major issues with the nvidia drivers.

What I know so far is avoid at all costs the ide drivers, and stay away from nvidia firewall. There is still a debate on which audio drivers as shuttle has via and realtek on the cd, and some prefer the updated envy audio. Stay away from nvidia audio for sure as that is not enabled on the sn25p.

Search around on sudhian forums for more info.

sudhian topic on freezing

-Dennis
 

heckknow

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2005
4
0
0
Originally posted by: BadMonkey130U
...I reinstalled everything from the system restore point in the same order; everything was fine until I got to my Zone Alarm Pro v4.5.594, then the crash. I've long been a fan of Zone Alarm but maybe it's not compatible with my MB. I know what you may be thinking, maybe it was fighting with the NVidia firewall; I hadn't installed the NVidia firewall at all until it became apparent that using Zone Alarm was a no-go.

It's not Zone Alarm (I had a similar problem with my SN25P and blamed ZA as well). I fixed it by unchecking the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" option under the "Power Management" tab of the "NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller Properties" window (this took many reboots/BSOD/hair pulling to realize; the clue I got was from the Warning text right below the option). I hope that helps. I'm not getting any more BSOD with ZA running now.

UPDATE: Well, crap. I guess you're right about ZA after all. The above setting worked for a while but the BSOD came back! So, I took your advice this time. I disabled ZA and enabled NVIDIA's firewall software (set to MEDIUM). Now all is good (so far).
 

Samus

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,405
7
81
I found out the problem with my clients sensitive and randomly rebooting SN25P.

Get this: THE CHROME FEET. They pickup overly sensitive vibration and shock, and add an angle. ALL of these things combined set off the already sensitive hard disk shock sensor built into the system to prevent damage to the drives.

If you use the feet, REMOVE THEM SUCKA'S!
 

heckknow

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2005
4
0
0
Originally posted by: Samus
I found out the problem with my clients sensitive and randomly rebooting SN25P.

Get this: THE CHROME FEET. They pickup overly sensitive vibration and shock, and add an angle. ALL of these things combined set off the already sensitive hard disk shock sensor built into the system to prevent damage to the drives.

If you use the feet, REMOVE THEM SUCKA'S!

Geez, we have to resort to this now? Talk about getting ridiculous. I thought the chrome feet is there to allow airflow from under the case? Also, what HD shock sensor are you talking about? Is this an option in the SN25P's BIOS setting? or is this your HD's own software? What's your HD by the way? If my BSOD problem doesn't go away by using NVIDIA's firewall, I'll try removing the chrome feet.

UPDATE:

Well, I switched over to the NVIDIA's firewall shortly after I updated my previous post about ZA. And guess what? It locked up again! So, I removed the chrome feet and rebooted. Now, I can't load any website with the NVIDIA's firewall enabled. I tried turning it down from medium to low. But no it was no use. I tried purging the various tables, still nothing. This piece of crap system is pissing me off. I need to find another firewall software to use besides ZA and NVIDIA's. BTW, whoever decided to use the web browser to configure the firewall should be beaten to a pulp. Not only is it annoying as heck when the navigation tree keeps closing up on you when you hit apply, it takes forever for the changes to take affect after you hit the apply button. Why in the world not put the settings inside the tray app like ZA? Urgh!!! These guys get paid to write this piece c r a p of software? I can't even get into my linksys router setup screen (which also uses the web browser to customize its setting; but it's way better designed than NVIDIA's crapfest-of-a-firewall).

UPDATE #2:

Well, after rebooting, the NVIDIA's firewall software somehow got corrupted. So, I follow the instruction to re-install it. Then windows firewall kicked in automatically (I had it disabled -- anyone know how to permanently remove it?). Can you say frustrating and annoying??? Argh!

Anyway, the instruction that I followed caused the NVIDIA's firewall software to uninstall completely (instead of only getting a notice of the firewall part of the network suite being uninstalled). Just as well, I supposed. So, I've hit rock bottom with this crap.

I enabled the windows firewall (oh, no! talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel). Then found out it only blocks incoming requests and not outgoing requests!!! So, malicious programs can phone home and spread your info to the whole world.

If I worked at a fast food restaurant that pays $5 an hour, I would have made $60 with the time and effort spent on trying to get online without BSOD or freezing with the SN25P.

Of course, the SN25P runs like a champ if you never go online. Hmmm...one wonders if the tech-heads at NVIDIA/shuttle even tested the online part of the SN25P? So, to recap, ZA is not compatible with the SN25P, the NVIDIA's firewall sucks arse (annoying browser-based GUI; also assigned a very high IP for connection xxx.xxx.x.63 instead of xxx.xxx.x.4), and the windows firewall just plain suck (does not block phone-home/outbound connections to the internet) ... make that $65 now.

UPDATE #3:

Wahoo! I've finally found help with the problem. This post about someone encountering a blue screen of death with zone alarm on ZA's forum solved my issue (but I'll report back in a couple of days just to be sure):

http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/boar...2&highlight=blue+screen+of+death#M9422

UPDATE #4:

It just BSOD on me again. Freakin SOB! I hate shuttle! I hate SN2P! Argh, I'm going to try Kerio's firewall or Norton and see either would help.
 

heckknow

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2005
4
0
0
Okay, I finally fixed the problem (I think...I'll wait a couple of days too be sure). Basically, I went to the MS KB site:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/887742

It mentioned about a different STOP code than mine. But, I downloaded the patch and ran the update anyway. Rebooted the machine and bam! BSOD all over again. Rats.

The KB does say that the original distribution WinXP http.sys does not have the problem. So, I popped my winxp disk in (SP2). Copied over the http.sys from there. Rebooted. Bam, again! BSOD. WTF!

I could have disabled Norton AV, but decided to rename the "http.sys" to "http.sys.old" in the following directories:

WINDOWS\Driver Cache\i386
WINDOWS\system32\drivers

I rebooted the system. Bam! No BSOD! Wahoo! All is good. I can now run with Norton AV and ZA while online without getting a BSOD. Shuttle and NVidia you all can kiss my behind! I fixed my own problem (thanks to google and the URLs it found for cluing me into the problem).
 

heckknow

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2005
4
0
0
OKay, I think I've finally fixed the problem. Here's a recap:

1. uninstalled NVIDIA's firewall (I did it by accident)
2. went back to ZA 5.1 instead of the newer version.
3. disabled Http.sys by renaming it to Http.sys.old.
4. disabled DEP feature via boot.ini
5. disabled NVTCP.sys by renaming it to NVTCP.sys.old2.

If you want to follow what I did that led me to those five steps, look here:

http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.aspx?catid=43&threadid=79898&STARTPAGE=1