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My Idea for solving America's Energy Crisis

I have a very simple strategy for solving America's dependence on foreign oil (or at least making a HUGE dent in it) while at the same time providing a huge boost to lower and middle income Americans. To me this smacks of a concept that I normally hate for being entirely too vague and abstract: common sense. All I am doing is taking off the shelf ideas and technology and combining them into a package that actually makes sense, imagine that!

THE TAX CREDIT: $3150 - This is the current federal tax credit on the Toyota Prius (MSRP: $21,500) http://www.hybridcars.com/federal-incentives.html

THE CAR: a <$10,000 car using a conventional 3 or 4 cylinder engine tuned, using modern technology, to be the most exceptional conventional gas mileage car ever made using no exotic technology. I am not an engineer or a mechanic, but I do have MSN autos, so here are some examples that could be used for inspiration:

The New Beetle 90hp I4 (34/44 with a 4 speed auto, imagine pairing it up to a modern 6 speed, 42/49 with the 5 speed manual) http://autos.msn.com/research/...New%20Beetle&trimid=-1

1991 Honda Civic CRX 49/52 with 62 hp I4 and 5 speed manual.

Considering cars like the Kia Rio and the Chevy Aveo have been made with around a 10,000 MSRP, let's say with modern technology a car company manages to get one of these out around $8,000 with a ~small 70hp engine. With modern technology let's assume they can make a car getting around 45/55 with these specifications. Take a 8,000 MSRP, subtract a 3,000 tax credit, and you have a 5,000 car that even the lower-class, let alone the middle class to afford.

My point is, all these tax credits on super-expensive (sorry but 21,500 + taxes is super expensive and out of the price range of many americans) are really missing the point. At $5,000 and $4 a gallon gasoline, my hypothetical car would be only $2,500 compared to even a relatively gas efficient 30/36 car in approximately 5 years. That is the price of a cheap USED car for christ's sake! On top of this, I must bring up the point of why not have a general tax credit for all extremely efficient gasoline engine cars as long as they meet certain extraordinary thresholds (i.e. ~40 mpg average in combined driving, even a new civic or a corolla does not come close to this)

The reason this would be so dramatic and so effective is the true mass market penetration of the subsidized $5000 car, the tremendous gas savings, and the fact that even those with poor credit would be able to find ways to truly afford the car, and THRIVE after they have purchased it. Anyone want to weigh in or refine my idea?

EDIT: The other reason the small, conventional engine is critical to this idea is that one of the main reasons that enough of the hybrids cannot be produced is bottlenecks in the battery construction. With a car that could sell in the millions, having any bottlenecks would NOT be an option.
 
My wife's car gets 44MPG and never was eligible for tax credits.......

Too bad every seems to car about gas prices and not diesel prices. High diesel prices causes everything to cost more.
 
The CRX may not be possible to make today and get the same mileage.
1) EPA fuel ratings are more strict now
2) Safety features add weight, and are required by law.
3) Emissions standards are more strict now I believe, which reduced the possible gas mileage

The CRX made a lot of other sacrifices to obtain that mileage. It was dog slow, didn't have power steering or other common features on all of today's cars.

That said, technology has improved.

I still personally think hybrids and then full on electric is the path of least resistance myself, but better fuel economy options would be welcome. We've kind of seen that seqment balloon in size over the past decade, rather then increasing its fuel economy. But that was just what American's wanted.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Those tiny cars have two big problems:

1) No power at all
2) Not safe, no room.

I just want to get to work cheaper and I think OP is right. I pay for gas weekly. The odds of a fatal car crash are slim so I'd take my chances. I also think subsidizing expensive cars like the Prius is not very intelligent and does nothing to help average Americans. A Prius is basically a $20K+ Corolla which doesn't make any sense financially except for those looking to buy a status symbol.

I'm also waiting to see if the Hyndai Accent Hybrid ever surfaces. I already drive an Accent, would like better mileage, and Hyundais are usually competitively priced. Even small hatchbacks have plenty of room inside when compared to a similar sedan.

I would also like to see a new take on the Geo Metro but Chevy is too busy drooling over a $40K Volt to resurrect it.
 
Originally posted by: Jorock McBama
THE TAX CREDIT: $3150 - This is the current federal tax credit on the Toyota Prius (MSRP: $21,500) http://www.hybridcars.com/federal-incentives.html
The government does not give this incentive on the Prius due to its popularity. It only gives it on every other hybrid on the market, demonstrating that it's yet another BS political ploy rather than actually trying to steer people towards better mileage cars. I just bought one because it gets better mileage than any non-sub-compact on the market.
 
Originally posted by: aldamon
I just want to get to work cheaper and I think OP is right. I pay for gas weekly. The odds of a fatal car crash are slim so I'd take my chances. I also think subsidizing expensive cars like the Prius is not very intelligent and does nothing to help average Americans. A Prius is basically a $20K+ Corolla which doesn't make any sense financially except for those looking to buy a status symbol.
Or those of us who know algebra and how to calculate a relative payback period on a car.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: aldamon
I just want to get to work cheaper and I think OP is right. I pay for gas weekly. The odds of a fatal car crash are slim so I'd take my chances. I also think subsidizing expensive cars like the Prius is not very intelligent and does nothing to help average Americans. A Prius is basically a $20K+ Corolla which doesn't make any sense financially except for those looking to buy a status symbol.
Or those of us who know algebra and how to calculate a relative payback period on a car.

Oh please do share how that Prius is such a good buy over a Corolla.
 
Cars with engines that are fuels by compressed air is and should be the clear winner here. Far less expensive than hybrids, non polluting and don't use gas.
 
Originally posted by: aldamon
Oh please do share how that Prius is such a good buy over a Corolla.
The Corolla is only marginally less expensive than the Prius (sticker prices are about $19k and $24k, respectively). Corolla gets a combined 31 mpg, while the Prius gets 45. Yearly gas cost=(12k miles/year)*(gas price/gal) / (miles/gal). Then, the payback period is only a function of the price of gas.

Price($/gal)-Payback period (in years)
4-9
5-7
6-6
7-5

Obviously, the payback period is inversely proportional to the price of gas. If one drives over 12k miles/year, the payback period is considerably shortened, since the above calculations assume 12k miles/year. GGKTHXBYE. By the way, your knuckles are bleeding.
 
Then I take the 5G saved by buying a Corolla invest it and it doubles in 9 yrs to 10G
But then I look at resale after 9 yrs and the Prius has held value better
Then I look at intangibles like I'm driving a nicer car than a rolla, that's worth something but my Prius is worse for the environement because of battery recycling, two powertrains and a lot more complex electronics and has more energy use in manufacture and recycling.

Its complicated
But if you are willing to sacrifice safety and amenities, plain steel vehicles with a very efficient ICE engine is better on overall consumption and the environment
 
I ride my Harley to work everyday except in crappy weather (45mpg). On days it is too nasty to ride, I drive my Ford Focus (38mpg).
Why does everyone always talk about Japanese cars and not US made? There are some US made cars that get pretty decent gas mileage.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: aldamon
Oh please do share how that Prius is such a good buy over a Corolla.
The Corolla is only marginally less expensive than the Prius (sticker prices are about $19k and $24k, respectively). Corolla gets a combined 31 mpg, while the Prius gets 45. Yearly gas cost=(12k miles/year)*(gas price/gal) / (miles/gal). Then, the payback period is only a function of the price of gas.

Price($/gal)-Payback period (in years)
4-9
5-7
6-6
7-5

Obviously, the payback period is inversely proportional to the price of gas. If one drives over 12k miles/year, the payback period is considerably shortened, since the above calculations assume 12k miles/year.

You can't be serious. That's nowhere near a reasonable amount of time until break-even, even under the best of circumstances. Also, $19K buys one hell of a Corolla.

desy's points are valid as well, especially with investing the difference, except I don't care about saving the environment. I don't want to be charged so much for better mileage. It doesn't make any sense.
 
Its still 9 years for a ROI?

Honestly, thats pretty shit since at that point you're probably going to want to buy a new car anyway. How is insurance on hybrids anyway?

19K seems a little steep for a corrolla...are they really selling for that now? If so, I don't feel so bad about getting slightly worse mileage out of my elantra that I'd paid like 14.5 OTD for.

I like the idea of hybrids, but they should strip them down to get the price down some more. Gas mileage is about $$$ to me. If you've got a 2-3 year break even point at least I might get excited, but 9 is pretty nuts.

Seems like the best bang for the buck is something like the yaris.
 
Originally posted by: aldamon
You can't be serious. That's nowhere near a reasonable amount of time until break-even, even under the best of circumstances. Also, $19K buys one hell of a Corolla.
How do you define "a reasonable amount of time until break-even (sic)"? The Prius has an 8 year warranty on everything, so it's hardly unreasonable. And $19k-$24k sticker is as close an apples-to-apples comparison as you can get, since it's for similarly equipped cars. Look behind you before backpedaling - you're almost in traffic.
desy's points are valid as well, especially with investing the difference, except I don't care about saving the environment. I don't want to be charged so much for better mileage. It doesn't make any sense.
His points are garbage. Unless I'm paying cash for my Prius, I can invest that money too. He conjectures that the batteries are worse for the environment, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the financial analysis now, does it? I also don't care how complex the power trains are, since they are covered under a warranty that is almost identical to the Corolla's. So no, his points aren't going to save your bacon here.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Its still 9 years for a ROI?

Honestly, thats pretty shit since at that point you're probably going to want to buy a new car anyway. How is insurance on hybrids anyway?

19K seems a little steep for a corrolla...are they really selling for that now? If so, I don't feel so bad about getting slightly worse mileage out of my elantra that I'd paid like 14.5 OTD for.

I like the idea of hybrids, but they should strip them down to get the price down some more. Gas mileage is about $$$ to me. If you've got a 2-3 year break even point at least I might get excited, but 9 is pretty nuts.

Seems like the best bang for the buck is something like the yaris.
I drive cars until the wheels fall off. So no, I won't want to buy a new car before the ROI in all likelihood. Insurance on the Prius and Corolla was virtually identical (at least, through USAA). The nine year figure is if gas stays at $4/gal. I personally don't know what gas will do over the next ten years, so I opted to err on the side of stability. My fuel budget is affected very little by gas prices, which is important to me. The fact that I can go 520 miles on a tank also enables me to pick my price point.

And yes, the Yaris is a little better bang for the buck. The Elantra is pretty good too. Unfortunately, I don't come close to fitting in either of them. The Prius is actually tall and roomy enough to accommodate my 6'4" 230 lb frame, which was also a factor.
 
Fine, figure out the financing on the xtra 5 G then since you aren't paying cash.
There still is the opportunity cost of money no matter how you cut it.

And I 'm not talking about repair and maintenance under warranty I'm talking about filling the dump with more plastic and electronics and the original cost tro create the xtra plastic and electronics.

Tata can build a car for 2500, if we'd settle for those, it would save a lot of energy throughout the whole lifecycle of the car which is what the thread is originally about.
Not your hard-on for a Prius
 
Originally posted by: desy
Fine, figure out the financing on the xtra 5 G then since you aren't paying cash.
There still is the opportunity cost of money no matter how you cut it.
At 0.2% interest, that doesn't change anything. That's what my 5 Gs are making me right now.
And I 'm not talking about repair and maintenance under warranty I'm talking about filling the dump with more plastic and electronics and the original cost tro create the xtra plastic and electronics.
Like I said, we're not discussing the environmental impact here. You brought that up and it has bupkiss to do with the financial end of things.
Tata can build a car for 2500, if we'd settle for those, it would save a lot of energy throughout the whole lifecycle of the car which is what the thread is originally about.
Not your hard-on for a Prius
If you think it's so easy to build a car for $2500, please do so. If you think you can do so in an environmentally friendly manner as you indicate, then I feel compelled to remind you to raise your knuckles before walking next time.
 
"If we use our fuel to get our power, we are living on our capital and exhausting it rapidly. This method is barbarous and wantonly wasteful, and will have to be stopped in the interest of coming generations. " -- Nikola Tesla
 
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