My HOA's perpetuity clause is tied to the Queen of England.

[SunnyD]

I had reason to go over my HOA covenant last night, and I came across something interesting in it. The perpetuity clause directly referenced Queen Elizabeth II. Seeing that, it made me stop to actually read the clause wondering why her majesty is included in a US legal document.

Turns out that it's simply there to guarantee the covenant is good for a lengthy amount of time... particularly through "the lifetime of the longest living currently living descendant of Elizabeth II, Queen of England, plus 21 years at the time this covenant is enforced".

So basically, whatever the currently youngest descendant lives to, plus 21 years.

I thought it was odd, but figured I'd share. Let the HOA flaming begin! (For what it's worth, as of yesterday my HOA actually did something FOR me.)

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Thats awesome.

 

[sdifox]

lulz, you could fight it by calling it un-american

 

[ElFenix]

it's because her descendants are easily identifiable so everyone can figure out when the perpetuity ends. joe kennedy is another good person to pick.

 

[SearchMaster]

Makes sense but it seems silly to have it so unclear (could be 50 + 21 or tomorrow + 21). It seems like saying "December 31st, 2049" or something would be a better unit of measurement but IANAL

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Why not just say, "forever?"

And isn't it a moot point, if the houses get eminent domain'd by the city to put in a shopping mall or something? Won't need an HOA meeting then.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Why not just say, "forever?"

And isn't it a moot point, if the houses get eminent domain'd by the city to put in a shopping mall or something? Won't need an HOA meeting then.

Forever is undefined.

 

[SunnyD]

Makes sense but it seems silly to have it so unclear (could be 50 + 21 or tomorrow + 21). It seems like saying "December 31st, 2049" or something would be a better unit of measurement but IANAL

At the time of the covenant's inception - which was 2/5/2010. It will be the oldest surviving descendant + 21 years (on death). So yes, it's rather open-ended.

 

[ElFenix]

Makes sense but it seems silly to have it so unclear (could be 50 + 21 or tomorrow + 21). It seems like saying "December 31st, 2049" or something would be a better unit of measurement but IANAL

back in the 1400s or 1500s england had a problem with testators creating long chains of life estates in their descendants (for the life of my son, then to his children for their lives, then to their children for their lives). which meant that the land couldn't be used or freed up until it gets to the last generation stated. those were called perpetuities. the law was changed so that perpetuities could only last for the life of someone now living + 21 years (basically, to allow that someone's child to get to adulthood). mostly perpetuities were written so that the time frame would cover one's own descendants. but it doesn't have to be that way. just has to be an identifiable class of people. the queen works well, the kennedys work well. using the minneapolis phone book is considered too much. the rule against perpetuities is considered a difficult concept in real estate law. but i think that's just because it's usually explained really poorly. (somewhat like how lawyers say 'interest on interest' rather than 'compound interest')

various states have changed the rule against perpetuities, either abandoning it entirely or changing it to a set number of years for the max.

 

[Mark R]

That's a bit odd, but entertaining none the less.

A lot of old covenants and leases around here were written so as to be very long - but they chose 99 years, so actually, many have now ended (or if leases, been renewed). This often causes a lot of legal complication.

Newer ones now tend to be written for 999 years.

 

[D1gger]

So you have to wait for 21 years after the death of these people to overthrow your HOA.

Prince William of Wales
Prince Henry ("Harry") of Wales
Princess Beatrice of York
Princess Eugenie of York
James (Windsor), Viscount Severn
Lady Louise Windsor
Master Peter Phillips
Miss Zara Phillips

 

[Jeff7]

Forever is undefined.

Ok then...
"This document shall remain binding until the tidal forces between Earth and the Moon increase the length of one day to a period greater than 284,400 seconds."

Finite, easily measured, and quite a long ways off.

 

[marvdmartian]

Evidently, the person who wrote that never saw the movie "King Ralph".

 

[Gibsons]

So you have to wait for 21 years after the death of these people to overthrow your HOA.

Prince William of Wales
Prince Henry ("Harry") of Wales
Princess Beatrice of York
Princess Eugenie of York
James (Windsor), Viscount Severn
Lady Louise Windsor
Master Peter Phillips
Miss Zara Phillips

That's a lot of people to kill just to get out of the HOA. Plus waiting 21 years. Might be worth it though.

 

[Wreckem]

It's likely a mimimum of 91 years.

Odds are though your HOA wont exist by then.

 

[acheron]

That's a lot of people to kill just to get out of the HOA. Plus waiting 21 years. Might be worth it though.

Think they're ever all in the same place at once? Or does one of them always stay somewhere else, like the US president's Cabinet?

 

[Theb]

That's a lot of people to kill just to get out of the HOA. Plus waiting 21 years. Might be worth it though.

He wouldn't need to kill them himself, just convince a usurper king to wipe out her line and take the throne by force.

<- Reading the Song of Fire and Ice series

 

[Modelworks]

I don't like the terms HOA and covenant used together, seems creepy. Maybe it was that movie I saw where the HOA was a group of satanists and the housing development converted everyone living there, much like many HOA attempt to do

 

[acheron]

He wouldn't need to kill them himself, just convince a usurper king to wipe out her line and take the throne by force.

<- Reading the Song of Fire and Ice series

Given historical precedent, I would say the best options for taking over the English throne are the French or the Dutch. (I guess being named "William" would help, but maybe that's not necessary.) Since there are no kings of France anymore, obviously you need to contact Queen Beatrix.