My friend's fiancee just asked him if they could skip getting the license

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Annisman*

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,918
89
91
TheGardener said:
The OP said that there will be a religious ceremony. He didn't say what religion. If Catholic, do you think a religious divorce will be cheap? Well Catholics call it an annulment. That assumes it is even given. One of the Kennedy's tried to get a annulment within the church, after having 4 kids together. The wife took it public, and long story short, the annulment was denied. I'm sure just to grease the skids costs a bunch with no guarantees. Kennedy got a civil divorce and remarried. But not a religious divorce.
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They go to the same church as me which is non-denominational however I have found it to be closest to the 'Baptist' churches.
 
G

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
cabri said:
Downfall is they have no legal rights for each other.
Can not make legal, medical decisions for the other.
No survivor or retirement benefits.

Anything in ones name does not automatically belong to the other.
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A living will with power of attorney can cover a lot of those things.

The idea we need to get a marriage license because of these reasons is outdated. It takes some preparation. Something I know many Americans lack. They will lose out on SS survivor benefits. Whoopie do.
 
G

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
kranky said:
And years down the road, no spousal Social Security benefits. You have to produce the license to get those. That could cost her a half-mil in benefits over her lifetime.
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SS death benefits run until the spouse starts drawing SS. It wont be a half million unless there is an age different of about 50 years.
 
mrblotto

mrblotto

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2007
1,639
117
106
s0me0nesmind1 said:
This is not a question or debate. You are a total and complete moron if you think marriage is anything but a tax penalty.
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escalated_quickly.jpg
 
C

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
Genx87 said:
SS death benefits run until the spouse starts drawing SS. It wont be a half million unless there is an age different of about 50 years.
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My MIL drew benefits from SS & VA for 15 years after husband died.
The check each month to her from Uncle was over $3K

3 *12 = 36 * 15 = 540.

She would have got nothing if not married
 
G

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
cabri said:
My MIL drew benefits from SS & VA for 15 years after husband died.
The check each month to her from Uncle was over $3K

3 *12 = 36 * 15 = 540.

She would have got nothing if not married
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Your MIL is an outlier.

The avg SS survivors benefit for 2015 is 1110\month. The maximum benefit if a person were to starting drawing in 2015 at aged 70 is 3501.

Like I said they will lose SS benefits. However everything else can be taken care of via a living will with power of attorney.
 
S

Schfifty Five

Lifer
Oct 20, 2005
10,978
44
91
PenguinPower said:
My old neighbor's kid got married in a "tree ceremony" a few years back. They had a kid, split up, and now he can't see the kid because he was never officially the father.

Tell your friend it sounds like a great idea.
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While I don't know all the laws with children, marriage, etc, that sounds like a bunch of fluff about him not being the official father. What does marriage have to do with him being the "official" father?
 
TheGardener

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
cbrunny said:
non-denominational church? that's a thing?
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Here in New England and probably elsewhere, there exists the Unitarian Universalist church. Just about every town in my area has one. They are best described as a religion for liberals, and more recently with a heavy bent on attracting gays. They are buying up old Christian churches, and you may see a rainbow plaque in front.

Long ago I attended a wedding for a straight couple married there. There was no mention of God or gods or any deity. So I certainly wouldn't call them Christians. The closest thing mentioned in the vows was Winnie The Pooh. Maybe you can call it a religion for agnostics who are politically active. That's the best I can come up with.

From the sound of things, if or when the above mentioned marriage ends, they probably will be able to just walk away from each other, assuming no kids.
 
nakedfrog

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,125
13,680
136
Based on the Unitarian Universalist church I've been to, I would not consider that to be the same type of non-denominational church that Annisman was referring to. There are "generic" Christian churches.
 
rcpratt

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I already answered that. Very few people, especially those that make that little enough to fall in the first 2 brackets have a stay at home wife/husband. It just doesn't exist. Mostly because you can't possibly not be in complete poverty. Toss in a kid and there is no doubt you would be in poverty.

This is not a question or debate. You are a total and complete moron if you think marriage is anything but a tax penalty.
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It clearly is a debate, since people are talking about it. You are a total and complete moron regarding just about everything, as proven by your asinine posting history.

Suck my dick.
 
Ventanni

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
I would not recommend it.

I'll comment on the potential religious motive (which is probably not the case though) since the others have covered the legal benefit parts extremely well, but it must be mentioned here. Obviously having a certificate doesn't make you married in the eyes of God. People have been getting married for thousands of years without a marriage certificate. Marriage is a covenant, and God takes covenants, especially the marriage covenant, extremely seriously. The covenant is created when you say, "I do."

But God does expect us to obey the laws of the lands we live in so long as they're not contrary to his own, and in the United States, you have to have a marriage license to be legally married. If she's serious about her faith, don't let her fool herself into thinking you're married when you're not. Although it's obviously not illegal to live with someone else, God can't honor and bless a marriage that's not legally recognized. See what I'm getting at? That's why I highly, highly don't recommend it.

I can almost guarantee you that your pastor isn't going to ordain the marriage without there being a marriage certificate.
 
Annisman*

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,918
89
91
Ventanni said:
I would not recommend it.

I'll comment on the potential religious motive (which is probably not the case though) since the others have covered the legal benefit parts extremely well, but it must be mentioned here. Obviously having a certificate doesn't make you married in the eyes of God. People have been getting married for thousands of years without a marriage certificate. Marriage is a covenant, and God takes covenants, especially the marriage covenant, extremely seriously. The covenant is created when you say, "I do."

But God does expect us to obey the laws of the lands we live in so long as they're not contrary to his own, and in the United States, you have to have a marriage license to be legally married. If she's serious about her faith, don't let her fool herself into thinking you're married when you're not. Although it's obviously not illegal to live with someone else, God can't honor and bless a marriage that's not legally recognized. See what I'm getting at? That's why I highly, highly don't recommend it.

I can almost guarantee you that your pastor isn't going to ordain the marriage without there being a marriage certificate.
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Very well said I agree with you 100%. I mentioned to my friend that as Christians we are to submit to our goverment 'Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and to God what is God's.' I will suggest that he makes her agree to a license.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,213
5,794
126
Annisman* said:
Very well said I agree with you 100%. I mentioned to my friend that as Christians we are to submit to our goverment 'Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and to God what is God's.' I will suggest that he makes her agree to a license.
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In her defense, Government does not Mandate that people need to obtain a license. It is not Illegal for 2 people to live together, have sex, have kids, or anything else that "Married" people would do. So whether she gets a Marriage license or not, she is obeying the Law.
 
Annisman*

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,918
89
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sandorski said:
In her defense, Government does not Mandate that people need to obtain a license. It is not Illegal for 2 people to live together, have sex, have kids, or anything else that "Married" people would do. So whether she gets a Marriage license or not, she is obeying the Law.
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Obeying man's law sure.
 
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