My friend's fiancee just asked him if they could skip getting the license

[s0me0nesmind1]

Why would that give them problems come tax time? Unmarried people file taxes all the time. They just can't file them together AFAIK.

As for the skipping of the license, well it seems to be a strange place to make a stand regarding the government getting into your business. That's one of the few areas where you actually benefit from it. If I were the guy I'd be suspicious it was actually something else and she was just using her desire to keep Uncle Sam out of it as an excuse.

Married people vs. Single have different tax brackets. Hence, if they were married, they might (possibly) owe more taxes.

Last I recall, the government had a rule that if you live with a person for more than x years you are thereby deemed domestic partners.

 

[rcpratt]

I don't see any advantage to doing this. The impact to federal taxes is generally positive filing married vs. separately.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't see any advantage to doing this. The impact to federal taxes is generally positive filing married vs. separately.

That is COMPLETELY false.

There is a reason it's called "Marriage tax penalty"

1) Your tax brackets change

Single:
10% $0 – $8,925 $
15%: $8,926 – $36,250
25%: $36,251 – $87,850
28%: $87,851 – $183,250
33%: $183,251 – $398,350
35%: $398,351 – $400,000
39.60%: $400,001+

Married:
10%: 0 – $17,850
15%: $17,851 – $72,500
25%: $72,501 – $146,400
28%: $146,401 – $223,050
33%: $223,051 – $398,350
35%: $398,351 – $450,000
39.60%: $450,001+

As you can see, at the 25% mark the tax brackets stop being 2x the amount of single, hence tossing you in the next bracket early. As it goes down the line it gets worse. This is obviously one of the many things in life that needs updating, because it's clearly back from the days of women being stay at home wives.

2) Deductions.

When filing single, you must have deductions of ~$6k+ to make it worth itemizing.

When filling married, REGARDLESS if you file separate or jointly, you must have ~$10k in deductions to make it worth itemizing instead of taking the standard. Which blows balls, because a married couple is less likely to have, say, 1 house per person to help make it to the itemized deduction threshold


Don't get me wrong, if you have a family where there is one breadwinner you will come out ahead - but that's not very likely for the average american anymore. VERY few people have a breadwinner making $150k+ and a wife that doesn't work.

tl;dr: Marriage is a tax PENALTY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty

 

[Scarpozzi]

Is the tree ceremony an Indian tradition ?

I always thought a tree ceremony involved a noose.

 

[Ancalagon44]

There are no ulterior motives I can guarantee that, it might end up being a stupid thing to do but her motives are not questionable.

So what are her motives?

 

[soulcougher73]

Sounds like he got a keeper. No need to make it legal in the eyes of the government Just be happy with each other.

 

[skimple]

Is she already married to someone else & doesn't want to be charged as a bigamist?

Make that three votes for this.

 

[cabri]

Downfall is they have no legal rights for each other.
Can not make legal, medical decisions for the other.
No survivor or retirement benefits.

Anything in ones name does not automatically belong to the other.

 

[cbrunny]

Make that three votes for this.

me too. four votes. get the damn license.

 

[BurnItDwn]

This has all pretty much already been mentioned ...

No license = no tax benefits, usually can't add them to the insurance/benefits package from work, and when one person dies or is in the hopsicle for some crazy bad thing, they wont have the same rights as somebody "officially" married. Problems with custody and visitation to any kids that happen if they split up

Now, if they dont have license, and they split up, then your friend will likely be a lot better off financially as he wont have to pay alimony and assets likely will be still under his control.

So, they should draft and sign a Pre-nuptual (should be mandatory for marriage IMO), and then they should get the license.

 

[kranky]

And years down the road, no spousal Social Security benefits. You have to produce the license to get those. That could cost her a half-mil in benefits over her lifetime.

 

[Phoenix86]

My old neighbor's kid got married in a "tree ceremony" a few years back. They had a kid, split up, and now he can't see the kid because he was never officially the father.

Tell your friend it sounds like a great idea.

Paternity has nothing to do with marriage. He can easily establish paternity, also he should have made sure his name was on the BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Tell your friend he's an idiot if he thinks his woman took his child. 10-1 he doesn't want paternity.

 

[Phoenix86]

Some states have fairly comprehensive common law marriage laws, but I wouldn't assume so. Not getting "married" is a sword that cuts two ways. It can work out, or not. Depends on the particulars.

Yep, in Texas if you present yourself as married, live together, etc. You are common law married. It's possible to live together and NOT be common law married, but you have to make sure you don't do a few things (there's a checklist of sorts). Basically, mixing money, presenting yourself as married, living together... Add up enough and you qualify.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/common-law-marriage-in-texas.html

Looking at the actual requirements it's:
(1) Agree to be married
(2) Live together as husband and wife, and
(3) Told others (hold yourselves out) that you are married.

 

[nageov3t]

Married people vs. Single have different tax brackets. Hence, if they were married, they might (possibly) owe more taxes.

couldn't you just file separately and pay taxes as if you were both unmarried?

 

[TheGardener]

Maybe this is a new underground trend. The whole kid issue is a moot point. The majority kids are born into a (legally) one parent households. If the dad ain't (officially) around there are more welfare payments. The whole system is ripe for being scammed.

Besides it sounds like all of you don't want to see the mom and kids on Maury someday.

You are NOT the father of little Luis!

 

[Phoenix86]

couldn't you just file separately and pay taxes as if you were both unmarried?

You can, but you'll likely pay more. You can file separately when you're married too, but most don't for the same reason.

 

[piasabird]

Just go look up how expensive it is to get a divorce. Plus there are things a single mother can get from the government if she is working part time. I know someone that got divorced and did not bother with getting remarried and just lives with some guy. It is quite common.

Look up the chart for single parents then look up earned income credit.

 

[rcpratt]

That is COMPLETELY false.

There is a reason it's called "Marriage tax penalty"

I said "generally" for a reason, but I still disagree with you. The impact is generally beneficial. When the impact is a penalty, it is generally small. When the impact is beneficial, especially in single income families, the benefit can be significant.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/interactives/marriage-penalty/

Link includes a calculator as well to see how your specific example would work out. I don't think most of the families in this country have two similar incomes.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I said "generally" for a reason, but I still disagree with you. The impact is generally beneficial. When the impact is a penalty, it is generally small. When the impact is beneficial, especially in single income families, the benefit can be significant.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/interactives/marriage-penalty/

Link includes a calculator as well to see how your specific example would work out. I don't think most of the families in this country have two similar incomes.

I already answered that. Very few people, especially those that make that little enough to fall in the first 2 brackets have a stay at home wife/husband. It just doesn't exist. Mostly because you can't possibly not be in complete poverty. Toss in a kid and there is no doubt you would be in poverty.

This is not a question or debate. You are a total and complete moron if you think marriage is anything but a tax penalty.

 

[TheGardener]

Just go look up how expensive it is to get a divorce. Plus there are things a single mother can get from the government if she is working part time. I know someone that got divorced and did not bother with getting remarried and just lives with some guy. It is quite common.

Look up the chart for single parents then look up earned income credit.

The OP said that there will be a religious ceremony. He didn't say what religion. If Catholic, do you think a religious divorce will be cheap? Well Catholics call it an annulment. That assumes it is even given. One of the Kennedy's tried to get a annulment within the church, after having 4 kids together. The wife took it public, and long story short, the annulment was denied. I'm sure just to grease the skids costs a bunch with no guarantees. Kennedy got a civil divorce and remarried. But not a religious divorce.

 

[Aikouka]

I am guessing her reasoning is that in the eyes of God they will be married and it's none of the government's business.

I'm guessing that this is their "stance" against the government legalizing gay marriage -- a "we don't believe in the government's idea of marriage" sort of train of thought?

 

[Eug]

I guess it's different in much of the US.

I live in Canada (Ontario) and my "wife" and I are not officially married (and never ever had any sort of ceremony), but we are considered married in the eyes of the tax man. In some ways, we get dinged on taxes, but OTOH, we are also eligible for benefits that only married couples are eligible for. Also, her workplace also considers us married, and thus has added me as the spouse so I get medical/dental coverage through her employment.

In fact, given that we have been living together so long, with kids, it could be considered tax evasion if we filed separately to benefit from some tax advantages single people have.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

couldn't you just file separately and pay taxes as if you were both unmarried?

Nope. Doesn't work like that.

The tax brackets are simply divided by 2. If you file separately that doesn't mean you go to the single brackets.

And worse - If you itemize deductions on one person, you MUST do it for the other.

That means if you itemize on one return, you cannot take the standard deduction on the other. Believe me, I would have loved to do that since my wife is the one whom has the house in her name.

 

[Slew Foot]

Easier to scam the goverment for benefits as a single woman

 

[Annisman*]

I'm guessing that this is their "stance" against the government legalizing gay marriage -- a "we don't believe in the government's idea of marriage" sort of train of thought?

Maybe, like I said I was guessing at her reasoning, I'm waiting for my buddy to talk to her more about it and then I'll have an answer.