My first CS class is using Scheme...

[degibson]

Originally posted by: lousydood
If nothing else, I want you to fundamentally understand one thing.

You cannot escape recursion by dismissing it.

Your implementation-dependent problems are just that -- flaws of your code or your compiler. This isn't about stacks, or your operating system's poor design. This is about simple mathematical facts.

Recursion is fundamental to computer science and computer programs, and there are an infinite number of programs which cannot be expressed without it. This is proven (it's known as the set of partial recursive functions minus the primitive recursive ones, which corresponds to what you know as the Turing-computable.)

All you've managed to demonstrate is your lack of education. Sorry, brutal, but true. I'm a bit disappointed in you degibson, I though you knew better.

Ouch, lousydood! I think you're the first person this decade to accuse me of having too little education.

In all truth, I have seen the proofs on recursion. I admit recursion is fundamental to computing theory. If a machine couldn't recurse, it wouldn't be Turing-complete (especially since looping is, as you say, a degenerate form of recursion). But I do not take a puritan attitude toward practical matters such as writing actual code. 'Degenerate' forms of recursion are more efficient and far more commonplace, and although von Neumann systems exhibit properties that don't fit nicely into current proofs, there is no evidence to suggest that the model is therefore inferior.