My F'd up military situation

[SarcasticDwarf]

A little background here:

Enlisted in the USAR in Dec 04. Was split ops and scheduled to do BCT in May 05. I went to Basic and shattered my ankle in the line of duty. Due to still being in school (undergrad) they sent my back home August 05. There I had surgery on the ankle and continued drilling until January 06 when I received notice that I had been separated for failure to return to BCT. During this entire time I was in communication with my unit and TTHS (the unit that used to be responsible for pre-basic people). In those communications I always said to either send me back or med board me (it was unlikely I would ever be physically capable of serving again). I continued communicating with them and the VA for the year that followed.

About six months ago I moved and got in touch with my congressman's office. Today they finally got back to me and said my options appear as such:

1) Take an administrative separation (more or less the same thing I have now I believe)
2) Re-enlist, losing my original contract (which was 6+2 vs the 8+0 you get now days).

Edit: Ok, why I am so torn on it: First of all, effectively my entire (every single male relative from my generation through my grandparents generation and a few females) is ex-military, so it feels in my mind at least that I am a failure for it. Also, I will need serious medical help later in life. Right now I walk with a slight limp. By the time I hit retirement age I am likely to have severe arthritis in my ankle and need a cane at a minimum. So if I just get out now to get it over with, I may be screwing myself over down the road. Up until I started this, my first professional career-level position six months ago I would have gone back in a heartbeat. Now I have moved away from everyone I know and have a lot to lose (mainly financially) because I would need to quit my job, pay back relocation, then pay to move all my stuff somewhere (probably across the country to my parents). I would not know if I would be gone for a few months months (fail basic, get discharge) or a few years.

Thoughts?

 

[Chryso]

I think your only real choice is 1.

 

[DeadByDawn]

If you are bitter, don't go back. Would just be a waste of your time.

 

[MrWizzard]

Did they ever respond to your communications with what they planed on doing, or did they just respond with choices you didnt like and you kept saying no, I want you to give me option A or B not C.

Either way it sounds like communication broke apart somewhere who's fault it is I cannot tell as there are too many missing details.

Either way eventually do you have to end up going back eventually?

Not trying to be cynical, just trying to understand how that would happen.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard
Did they ever respond to your communications with what they planed on doing, or did they just respond with choices you didnt like and you kept saying no, I want you to give me option A or B not C.

Either way it sounds like communication broke apart somewhere who's fault it is I cannot tell as there are too many missing details.

Either way eventually do you have to end up going back eventually?

Not trying to be cynical, just trying to understand how that would happen.

No, they never responded. The letter giving my separation was a complete surprise. I worked with them for MONTHS after to no avail. I told them the same thing every time, either med board me or send me back (and since I would not be able to complete I would still end up med boarded). Here's how some of the little communication I did have went: TTHS tells me to go back and to do so talk to my unit. My unit says to talk with MEPS. MEPS says to call the recruiters. The recruiters say to talk to my unit. My unit says to talk to TTHS. TTHS says my unit is wrong and to talk to my unit. It goes on and on and on. To be clear, I NEVER, EVER refused to go back at any time.

I don't *have* to go back but they are dicking me around. They could have med boarded me without sending me back at any time. Now it has been so long that they are just figuring it is easier for them to just send me back (making me reenlist) versus trying to do a real investigation. For anyone in the military, you KNOW how hard it is to get anything down on paper in a permanent record...and since the group that would have had their records has been disbanded for something like two years now...

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: DeadByDawn
If you are bitter, don't go back. Would just be a waste of your time.

I really DON'T want to go back anymore, but am being forced into it. Due to the nature of the injury (and how they made it worse-an even longer story) it is almost certain that I will end up needing a cane later in life and have severe arthritis. I have great medical coverage right now, but I can't be certain of what I will have later in life...and unless I get a proper discharge I won't be able to get any medical coverage (and civilian medical insurance does NOT like to cover military injuries).

 

[MichaelD]

As Chryso said, your only real option is #1.

If they truly are offering you an Admin Sep, make DAMN SURE that the BASIS is "medical" and the CHARACTERIZATION is "honorable." See this here.

Anything else will screw you for the rest of your life.

I doubt the Basis would be "disciplinary" since you weren't in trouble and they're offering you this "deal" to begin with. However, make sure they don't try and dick you with the "characterization of service." It should not be ANYTHING other than "Honorable" unless there are some things you're not telling us. (Just saying).

You enlisted. You broke your ankle. Didn't make suitable recovery. Not your fault=Medical, Honorable Admin Discharge on your DD214.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MichaelD


You enlisted. You broke your ankle. Didn't make suitable recovery. Not your fault=Medical, Honorable Admin Discharge on your DD214.

What they are saying is that it IS my fault and that they are being very generous in offering to let me reenlist. It does not matter why I did not go back to BCT before my contracted stated I needed it done, it only matters that I did not go back.

I also doubt they will offer to have the basis be medical. The problem with them doing that is that the medical reason was something that occurred in the line of duty and was not a pre-existing condition. Because of that I should qualify for disability, which means I need to be med boarded.

I should say: I *might* be able to do BCT (after I lose just a bit of weight) but the chances of it are low due to the fact that my ankle just gives out after I start to get tired (which, uh, tends to happen in training).

 

[Zebo]

I don't understand how you didnt get a medical discharge with a % disability & payments.

What's the charter of you discharge?

There are private attorneys for this I would seriously seek their advice.

Sorry about your ankle.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: MichaelD


You enlisted. You broke your ankle. Didn't make suitable recovery. Not your fault=Medical, Honorable Admin Discharge on your DD214.

What they are saying is that it IS my fault and that they are being very generous in offering to let me reenlist. It does not matter why I did not go back to BCT before my contracted stated I needed it done, it only matters that I did not go back.

I also doubt they will offer to have the basis be medical. The problem with them doing that is that the medical reason was something that occurred in the line of duty and was not a pre-existing condition. Because of that I should qualify for disability, which means I need to be med boarded.

I should say: I *might* be able to do BCT (after I lose just a bit of weight) but the chances of it are low due to the fact that my ankle just gives out after I start to get tired (which, uh, tends to happen in training).

So you are trying to be awarded disability and just not be separated?

What are you really looking for?

 

[A5]

Yeah - get a lawyer and I imagine you'll get what you want.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I don't understand how you didnt get a medical discharge with a % disability & payments.

What's the charter of you discharge?

There are private attorneys for this I would seriously seek their advice.

Sorry about your ankle.

I was never discharged, I was separated. They separated me in the same manner they would of someone who enlisted and never went to Basic. I think what started it all was that I was sent home to start the semester of classes and recover at home. Once there I was in my units hands (and my unit administrator was a complete dolt and we had three different commanders in a year) which had no idea what to do with me.

So right now I was effectively never even in the military. I have no DD214. Heck, my separation did not even use a form, it is just a letter.

 

[MichaelD]

Assuming you're telling us everything, exactly the way it happened, you're getting dicked, to put it blunty.

All branches of the US Armed Forces will dick their members, but the USMC and the USA are the prime offenders.

Lawyer up, now. Sure, it will cost you a little bit (lawyers will make payment plans, you know) but once Uncle Sam gets an official, stamped, notarized, blahblah letter from your lawyer stating your position, you'll get what you DESERVE.

Again, this is assuming you're telling us everything. You ENLISTED. You WENT to basic training. You got busted up during PT/training. That's 100% in the line of duty.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: MichaelD


You enlisted. You broke your ankle. Didn't make suitable recovery. Not your fault=Medical, Honorable Admin Discharge on your DD214.

What they are saying is that it IS my fault and that they are being very generous in offering to let me reenlist. It does not matter why I did not go back to BCT before my contracted stated I needed it done, it only matters that I did not go back.

I also doubt they will offer to have the basis be medical. The problem with them doing that is that the medical reason was something that occurred in the line of duty and was not a pre-existing condition. Because of that I should qualify for disability, which means I need to be med boarded.

I should say: I *might* be able to do BCT (after I lose just a bit of weight) but the chances of it are low due to the fact that my ankle just gives out after I start to get tired (which, uh, tends to happen in training).

So you are trying to be awarded disability and just not be separated?

What are you really looking for?

At this point in my life all I want is a proper medical discharge (which I would imagine would include something like 10-30% disability). So to do this they need to un-separate me and then med board me.

Alternately, I could go back but there are major downsides, like quitting my job and career, being completely and utterly broke from doing the above, and in all likelyhood I would still end up medically discharged.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Assuming you're telling us everything, exactly the way it happened, you're getting dicked, to put it blunty.

All branches of the US Armed Forces will dick their members, but the USMC and the USA are the prime offenders.

Lawyer up, now. Sure, it will cost you a little bit (lawyers will make payment plans, you know) but once Uncle Sam gets an official, stamped, notarized, blahblah letter from your lawyer stating your position, you'll get what you DESERVE.

Again, this is assuming you're telling us everything. You ENLISTED. You WENT to basic training. You got busted up during PT/training. That's 100% in the line of duty.

Yeah, a lawyer is my last resort. Keep in mind this is what I got offered AFTER my congressmen spent the last six months getting dicked around by them, so I am not hopeful that a lawyer would get any better.

And yes, this is how it happened. There are a lot of details I am leaving out (otherwise it would be much longer) but that is the gist of things.

 

[shortylickens]

Get out and stay out.
The service has no interest in making your life wonderful and wont take steps to do so. They have bigger problems right now. You need to take care of yourself, since its obvious they arent.

Dont get me wrong. I got out with a regular honorable and was grateful for it, but even if that didnt happen I would still be out some other way. Even if it meant not getting any kind of benefits.
At some point you have to move on with your life and get another career.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Zebo
I don't understand how you didnt get a medical discharge with a % disability & payments.

What's the charter of you discharge?

There are private attorneys for this I would seriously seek their advice.

Sorry about your ankle.

I was never discharged, I was separated. They separated me in the same manner they would of someone who enlisted and never went to Basic. I think what started it all was that I was sent home to start the semester of classes and recover at home. Once there I was in my units hands (and my unit administrator was a complete dolt and we had three different commanders in a year) which had no idea what to do with me.

So right now I was effectively never even in the military. I have no DD214. Heck, my separation did not even use a form, it is just a letter.

Man that's just wrong. Talk about adding insult to injury.
My point still stands get PROFESSIONAL advice as this choice will effect rest of your life.
http://www.veteransdisabilitylawyersite.com/

 

[rudeguy]

So to be clear; you want out of your commitment and you want them to pay you and provide medical coverage for the rest of your life?

You say that you were drilling with your unit when you were separated, correct? Were you able to drill with your ankle still injured?

I know how frustrating dealing with the Army can be. But it kind of sounds like you no longer want to join now that you have a decent job. It also sounds like you are not exercising and are using that as an excuse not to report. How much weight did you put on? Could you still make weight? Have you been doing anything to rehab your ankle?

Something just isn't adding up in your story. I don't doubt that the Army screwed up. But it does sound like you decided on your own that you weren't going to go back unless it was on your terms.

A lawyer is basically your only shot. Your recruiter or his commander would have been great options before things got this far but now I don't think they could be of much help.

 

[kage69]

Sorry to hear, especially about the ankle! Snapped the right one myself, and it was >3 years until I could really rely on it without pain. I would say rate your physical well being as more important than fulfilling some family legacy, but also don't be afraid to get at least a cursory opinion from a lawyer that is familiar with military service and the bureaucracy it employs. Your desire for a simple medical discharge really isn't unreasonable.

 

[alkemyst]

How did your injury occur? I have heard stories on line-of-duty being some dumbass falling in the shower.

injuries suck, but many times they are only the injured's fault. The US though is great at sucking up to sob stories and offering large payouts.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
How did your injury occur? I have heard stories on line-of-duty being some dumbass falling in the shower.

injuries suck, but many times they are only the injured's fault. The US though is great at sucking up to sob stories and offering large payouts.

It was during training, so it was sortof dumbass. I was doing land nav and we had to jump across these ditches. I made it across this one but just landed badly. Then I had to walk on it for about 1/5 mile.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: NSFW
So to be clear; you want out of your commitment and you want them to pay you and provide medical coverage for the rest of your life?

More or less. See below.

Originally posted by: NSFW
You say that you were drilling with your unit when you were separated, correct? Were you able to drill with your ankle still injured?

The ankle is good enough for walking around and very light running, but anything major is out of the question. It still tends to collapse and hurts like hell depending on what I do. The last time I tweaked it I spent a week seriously limping around.

Originally posted by: NSFW
I know how frustrating dealing with the Army can be. But it kind of sounds like you no longer want to join now that you have a decent job. It also sounds like you are not exercising and are using that as an excuse not to report. How much weight did you put on? Could you still make weight? Have you been doing anything to rehab your ankle?

No I have not been exercising the past ~18 months for various reasons. Though keep in mind that I am technically out of the military and have zero obligations to them. Maybe I should have stayed in shape, maybe not. As for rehab, I have been continuing to do the exercises I learned during my PT, but anything beyond that I can't do as I lost medical coverage for it.

Originally posted by: NSFW
Something just isn't adding up in your story. I don't doubt that the Army screwed up. But it does sound like you decided on your own that you weren't going to go back unless it was on your terms.

That is sortof true. I was 100% deddicated to going back for the TWO YEARS after the injury and separation while I was still in school. Back then it would have been easy to go back as I would just end the semester, let me lease expire, drop my stuff off with the parents and leave. Now I have a lot more on the line with a serious job and commitments and a major financial loss in leaving. Wouldn't you be a little less hesitant? Exactly how much of my life do I focus on them? Is it my responsibility to spend year after year with my life on hold just on the chance that they will need me? I followed every order, did every single thing that was asked of me, and this still happened. I don't believe that there was a single additional thing I could reasonably have done.

Originally posted by: NSFW
A lawyer is basically your only shot. Your recruiter or his commander would have been great options before things got this far but now I don't think they could be of much help.

I should note that there was a lot of turnover. My recruiter retired before I ever left for Basic. Every recruiter at the station was gone within a month of getting back. All the new ones were gone by the time I was separated. My unit also went through I think three commanders in the two years I was there (including a time when we effectively did not have one).

 

[rudeguy]

Did the Army pay for all or part of your school?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: NSFW
Did the Army pay for all or part of your school?

No. The only pay I ever received was my drill pay (which they did not pay me for my last drill) and the normal pay for while I was at basic (which they did not pay me for the last two weeks). The only other benefits I ever received were them paying for the initial surgery and PT right after I got back in August.

Edit: The educational benefits only kick in after you have completed training or been properly discharges (GI bill). It would not matter now anyway since I have already paid for school.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: NSFW
Did the Army pay for all or part of your school?

No. The only pay I ever received was my drill pay (which they did not pay me for my last drill) and the normal pay for while I was at basic (which they did not pay me for the last two weeks). The only other benefits I ever received were them paying for the initial surgery and PT right after I got back in August.

That's good then.

I hear ya on the turnover with the recruiters. Even without n00bs in there, recruiters usually aren't the brightest crayons in the happy meal.

I would call a lawyer tomorrow. They will usually give you a free sit down and tell you what the best course of action would be. I have heard some real horror stories from people in your situation.