My Experience w/ Windows Home Server vs. Acronis.

[GoodEnough]

Running WHS on the Acer Easystore cube. I was so excited abut the new toy. Sure, it makes the backup images seamlessly.

But, the restore attempt was a total clusterfuck, to say the least. First, the docs made NO mention of needing a network card driver on a USB drive for the restore to work (images are stored on the Home Server). After some forum searching, I tried to use the "Restore Drivers" folder created with the backup image. Those didn't work. I had to manually pull down the 80MB drivers off the Gateway website. That did seem to work, but then I got an "unknown network error" as soon as the restore started. I found dozens of forums with same error message posted. All unresolved. Further, the aborted restore blew away my master boot record. So the existing image was trashed. I had to do a factory restore off the CDROMs. What kind of a sick joke requires network connectivity to do an image restore? Total piece of unusable garbage. Screw Microsoft and their unusable buggy garbage.

So, I went back to Acronis today. For my desktop, I added a 2nd SATA drive (taken from the piece of garbage Acer), and I just store the entire C:\ image on the D:\ drive. Feels damn good to know I have a clean, lightning fast baseline build with all apps saved away!

Question: What's the best way to backup my laptop? The laptop only has 1 drive. The baseline image is 11G. For now, I have just stored it on the same volume. No, this won't protect me from a drive fail, but will at least give me the option of a fresh build rollback, once Windows slows to a crawl in a year or so.... Instead, If I store the image on a USB drive, will the DOS-like Acronis Recovery boot CDROM recognize it?

I'm open to any "best practices" on how to use Acronis to do my backup images.

PS: Rot in hell, Windows Home Server.

Also, what is the proper forum to post this message?

 

[Red Squirrel]

i'm not a fan of WHS and other proprietary storage setups. Linux MD raid or ZFS is better imo. You can just do basic file level backups and image the OS partition.

From what I understand WHS uses some kind of specialized storage mechanism, so you can't just image it. What you could maybe do is take an image of a base install configured to your needs but with no data, save that as a restore in case the Os crashes. Then do file level backups of your actual data. You could have a Linux box running rsync, or maybe there's an equivalent in Windows. Sync the data up to an external drive enclosure, or other media.

 

[sxr7171]

I don't know what to tell you. I was a BIG WHS proponent. I invested a lot of time and money into it. The concept is wonderful but execution is typical Microsoft. I had issues with it not being able to copy large files because it was too stupid to evaluate if the size of the file would fit into the drive it chose to write to. I had that problem and I had your problem with restore also. Honestly, as much as they tried to sell it as a problem free storage solution for non-tech savvy folks it was a major PITA at times. Its performance also sucks. Blu-Ray ISOs would stutter.

I found Nexentastor ZFS based storage appliance and I haven't looked back. That whole period was a waste of my time.

I know sometimes criticizing MS is a bit hackneyed but that system was utterly retarded at the end of the day. I felt like I had to baby sit it using drive balancer and other tools to get it to function correctly. That thing would run for days on end and deprive me of any decent performance. I'm sorry but I don't think the day will ever come that MS has a consumer friendly software product out. WHS was their attempt and they botched it. They botched it so hard that they took out any duplication/backup features in the next iteration. They simply couldn't get the job done. Better to use 3rd party solutions as you've discovered.

 

[Cerb]

For occasional/baseline images, I like to use Clonezilla, and make a point to keep an ISO of the version used with the image file, just in case future versions break anything.

If you're normally comfortable with Acronis, I see no reason to not use it with an external drive (such as an internal drive and an enclosure, so as to (a) not get a green drive and (b) not have any hassle with included software). Just do a separate backup of your data, and then try to restore to the laptop after the initial full system backup, to verify it will work, so that you aren't testing whether it will work after you've lost the main HDD.

For file backups on the network, rsync implementations (incl. DeltaCopy) and Cobian are nice, for Windows. SyncToy is fine for non-automated backups, IMO, but leaves a lot to be desired when trying to pin down the cause of a job failure when scheduled.

If you have not tested your restore procedures in advance then they are almost guaranteed NOT to work.

If you have not tested your restore procedures in advance then they are almost guaranteed NOT to work.

If you have not tested your restore procedures in advance then they are almost guaranteed NOT to work.

QFT*3

It's not that all the backup software out there is unreliable, but details matter, and perfectly supporting the wide variety of hardware out there, including networking, is no small feat.

 

[Ratman6161]

Look guys. There are some basic facts and procedures you need to have worked out in advance...i.e. ..tried and tested BEFORE you actually need them. It makes no difference if you are using linux, or Acronis or Microsoft products or combinations of all of the above (I have used them all). No matter which products or methods you use if the images are stored on a network resource, you will need to be able to connect to the network before its going to work and that means having the appropriate drivers and everything else needed to connect to the network and do your restore.

If you have not tested your restore procedures in advance then they are almost guaranteed NOT to work. Most people learn this the hard way, just like you.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah very important to test backup procedures. What I like about file level backups is they are simple, have very little chance to fail, and are very easy to test. Just pop the disk, mount it, make sure the data is there. In the case of DBs, simply restoring to a dummy DB server and checking some records will work. I have a local version of all my online environments. Every now and then I'll restore a backup to the local version, to make sure it's basically a mirror of live. Easy way to test. harder to do with proprietary stuff though... that's why I prefer Linux/open source stuff.

 

[Idontcare]

Question: What's the best way to backup my laptop? The laptop only has 1 drive. The baseline image is 11G. For now, I have just stored it on the same volume. No, this won't protect me from a drive fail, but will at least give me the option of a fresh build rollback, once Windows slows to a crawl in a year or so.... Instead, If I store the image on a USB drive, will the DOS-like Acronis Recovery boot CDROM recognize it?

I'm open to any "best practices" on how to use Acronis to do my backup images.

I love Acronis. Hated it at first, then they added some more features and now I love it.

In your case, do you have any other computers on your home network?

If you do then what you can do is make a hard-drive on a desktop somewhere be accessible (mountable) to your laptop.

Then mount the drive in explorer and setup your Acronis jobs to store the backup file on the network mounted drive.

In my case I use one of those external drive docks, whenever I leave the house for any extended periods of time I pop the drive out of the dock and leave it in my car.

 

[GoodEnough]

Yes, I did test my restore procedure before there was a problem. That was the whole point of this exercise. And Windows Home Server failed miserably. WHS = An embarrassing piece of shit, frankly. Acronis all the way.

Next, regarding storing the Acronis laptop images on a network folder. Yes, I can use the WHS machine as a file server, and can put the laptop images there. However, this introduces the same scenario where WHS failed so miserably. Can Acronis restore over a network? After my experience with WHS, I don't want to go there. If the laptop fails, what exactly am I supposed to do with the 11GB image that's stored on my network? Can Acronis restore off a 16GB USB Flash drive?

 

[GoodEnough]

I set up Acronis to do a 1 time FULL backup. (Baseline with all apps installed)
Then, I have it set to do weekly differential backups. (Most recent image)

If I only want 2 restore options: Restore to the original baseline or the most recent image, can I erase all the interim differential backup files?

Each differential is based entirely on the first FULL backup, correct?

 

[Zap]

Question: What's the best way to backup my laptop?

Use either Acronis (boot from the disc) or even the built-in Windows 7 backup utility to do a system image on some blank DVDs. Acronis has better compression if you choose the max compression option so if only drivers and Windows updates, you can probably fit it all on one DVD. Alternately use DL blanks. The built-in Windows backup utility will usually use twice the number of discs that Acronis (using max compression) will use.

For restore, either of them will require you to boot up using their respective discs (Windows allows you to create a bootable "recovery disc").

Note that neither of these options work on 100% of computers. The Windows utility in particular is pickier about the drive and BIOS support - I've found some notebook drives that it won't burn with, plus sometimes it won't burn if BIOS is set to AHCI. Still, when it works, it is free with Windows.

 

[Idontcare]

Can Acronis restore over a network?

Probably? But personally I would avoid attempting to do it like the plague.

Whenever the day comes where I actually need to do a restore to my laptop I will put the drive itself into a spare external USB HDD case I have lying around here and I'll physically hook it up to my laptop, followed by booting the laptop with the "acronis boot disk".

I have restored my desktop drives with acronis on many many occasions (I use it kinda like a windows "savepoint" (storepoint? safepoint?) system, or whatever it is that windows calls it) and it works wonderfully.

I setup my daily backup job to respect the size of the drive, less my space considerations (I give Acronis a 1TB footprint) and set it to auto-prune the backups on a rolling basis such that whatever length of backups it is storing, they reside within the 1TB allocation.

I don't do any manual pruning whatsoever.

 

[Ratman6161]

Yes, I did test my restore procedure before there was a problem. That was the whole point of this exercise. And Windows Home Server failed miserably. WHS = An embarrassing piece of shit, frankly. Acronis all the way.

Next, regarding storing the Acronis laptop images on a network folder. Yes, I can use the WHS machine as a file server, and can put the laptop images there. However, this introduces the same scenario where WHS failed so miserably. Can Acronis restore over a network? After my experience with WHS, I don't want to go there. If the laptop fails, what exactly am I supposed to do with the 11GB image that's stored on my network? Can Acronis restore off a 16GB USB Flash drive?

I'm not sure why it is WHS's fault that you didn't have a network driver that would connect the machine to be restored to the network. You are going to have to have that for any network based restore. It sounds as if a network based restore is just not for you.

Can Acronis restore off a 16GB flash drive? It might, if your image would fit on such a drive. Mine will not come close to fitting in 16GB but if yours does, you could use Acronis to create an image that is stored on the flash drive and also create an Acronis recovery CD. Acronis will create this CD for you. Its just a bootable CD that will get you into the program and then (assuming your system recognizes the flash drive) you can load the image from there. I have done this successfully many times from a USB hard drive + Acronis recovery CD so I', betting the flash drive would work...like I said assuming your image fits.

 

[GoodEnough]

Ok, so the bottom line is that Acronis CAN restore from a USB drive. I don't care if it's a hard drive or a flash drive. The point is, the Acronic boot CD can read the USB port. I'll store my laptop's image on an external SATA. Thanks.

 

[taltamir]

personally I find the best way to backup is via a simple filecopy app. Like secondcopy.
Just have it compare and copy files as changed to a mapped networked drive.
You can then simply and easily import the stuff into any OS of your choice.
It works very very well.

I got a ZFS fileserver sharing a raidz2 array via NFS & CIFS via gigE and I backup my stuff to it that way.

I don't bother with images because I figure I am better off doing a clean install of a preintegrated MS service pack, or whatever is the current 6 month release of linux/BSD/solaris.
And because only backing up files of my choice (based on directory locations) is amazingly more efficient.

Probably? But personally I would avoid attempting to do it like the plague.

Is this an issue with acronis or is there some sort of problem with ethernet I am not aware of?

 

[GoodEnough]

The point of an image is to not have to reinstall/reconfig your build. You should try it. Once you do it, you'll never go back to file based copy. Apples and oranges. Unpacking an image is fine, b/c it can run updates automatically. Way less work.

 

[mmaestro]

Was this WHS v1 or 2011? I have 2011 on my network, and I've had to do a few restores using it. Always worked like a dream: pop the restore disk in the drive, connect to the server, select backup, walk away for an (admittedly long) couple of hours. Done.

 

[Binky]

You missed the point mmaestro. He's upset that a network based backup requires...a network connection! /palm

What kind of a sick joke requires network connectivity to do an image restore?

Oh damn, you made me bump this *very useful* thread.

 

[GoodEnough]

No, I think you missed the point, Binky.
I understand a network based restore needs a network connection.
My point was that whoever at Microsoft dreamed up and engineered this convoluted design was a monumental retard.
WHS is a total FAIL even before they delivered the unusable pile of shit.

Acronis (and local drive restores) all the way.

 

[Idontcare]

Its still not clear to me how the OP feels about WHS?

Reading the post above, personally I think he's still on fence about it

 

[imaheadcase]

WHS is fine, sounds like user error.

Never had one problem with WHS, not one from the 20+ i've build for people.

You use a restore CD to get back images on WHS. You don't need any drivers at all.

This is the first post i've actually heard someone bitch about it..lol

 

[mmaestro]

You use a restore CD to get back images on WHS. You don't need any drivers at all.

Not always true IIRC (although I've never seen it need them in person). Sometimes Windows doesn't have a generic stock driver that'll work with a network card in a system, and requires the driver for the restore environment before it can do the restore. TBH, I am surprised this is something Microsoft hasn't fixed: it should be possible for them to pull down the driver from the backups and include it in a dynamically created restore disk, but that's not what they do. Kind of a shame IMO - WHS should be as idiotproof as possible, and while it's pretty good there is room for improvement.

 

[imaheadcase]

Well it is idiot proof. The drivers it uses are for the most popular nics that are used by %99 of the people.

This is something a person would look into before using WHS..not after.

 

[Old Hippie]

WHS is fine, sounds like user error.

Like imaheadcase, I've never had a problem restoring from an Acronis back-up or a WHS back-up over the network.

Sounds like user error to me.

 

[taltamir]

WHS is fine, sounds like user error.

Like imaheadcase, I've never had a problem restoring from an Acronis back-up or a WHS back-up over the network.

Sounds like user error to me.

First, the docs made NO mention of needing a network card driver on a USB drive for the restore to work (images are stored on the Home Server). After some forum searching, I tried to use the "Restore Drivers" folder created with the backup image. Those didn't work. I had to manually pull down the 80MB drivers off the Gateway website. That did seem to work, but then I got an "unknown network error" as soon as the restore started. I found dozens of forums with same error message posted. All unresolved. Further, the aborted restore blew away my master boot record. So the existing image was trashed. I had to do a factory restore off the CDROMs. What kind of a sick joke requires network connectivity to do an image restore? Total piece of unusable garbage. Screw Microsoft and their unusable buggy garbage.

The only user error I see is choosing to use WHS. Please elucidate how failure of MS documentations, failure of the "restore drivers" created during backup, and "unknown failure" after he jumped through all the hoops are "user error". I would be insulted from such a response and I find it to be uncalled for. This is the kind of response I would expect from a solaris or linux official forum (along with "go back to M$ windows n00b" - IRL response to many of my questions on such forums).

@OP: I would like to point out that it trashing your existing image is a given. You started a restore procedure, wiping out all existing data is a given. Did you mean that you expected it to restore a partition on a multi-partition HDD without trashing the other partitions? Because I could see how you would expect that but AFAIK this isn't an option. Another major issue with image based restoring compared to just backing up of data.

 

[Old Hippie]

For all I know his Acer EZ cube is the problem.

I put the WHS restore disk into my machine, pick which image I want and restore it.

I can and have done the same with Acronis.

I've had MANY problems with WHS v1 but restoring was never one of them.

Do you have a WHS taltamir?