My employer is trying to steal my vacation pay, help.

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
My employer has a "policy" that you cannot carry over more than a certain number of vacation days from one year to the next. So, for example, if I have 8 vacation days at the end of the year, and I can only carry over 5, I lose 3 days. They say they will not pay me for these days. Now, in the state of California, I'm certain this is an illegal practice. This Department of Labor Standards Enforcement page says:

Q. My employer?s vacation policy provides that if I do not use all of my annual vacation entitlement by the end of the year, that I lose the unused balance. Is this legal?


A. No, such a provision is not legal. In California, vacation pay is another form of wages which vests as it is earned (in this context, "vests" means you are invested or endowed with rights in the wages). Accordingly, a policy that provides for the forfeiture of vacation pay that is not used by a specified date ("use it or lose it") is an illegal policy under California law and will not be recognized by the Labor Commissioner.

And, they think that because I signed the handbook with this "policy" in it (wasn't aware of this law then), I do not have a right to that vacation. Basically since I signed it, I gave up that right. Well, since I signed the paper, I read a bit, and found out what they are doing is illegal, and I've called them on it. Now, even though I signed that paper, I can't waive my right to my earned pay. I found a court case, Henry v. Amrol, Inc.(1990) which stated that even though an employee signs a policy which contains illegal sections, they do no waive their rights. Also, Civil Code 3513 states that "...a law established for a public reason cannot be contravened by a private agreement." Labor Code has been determined to serve a public purpose.

So, the two owners of the company and my immediate supervisor want to have a meeting with me on this issue since I've said I will not sign the new ammendment they have for the employee handbook (they changed other stuff), until this policy is changed. I've heard through the grapevine that the owners insist they are right, and they do no have to pay me for this vacation, and will keep the policy in place.

I just want to get people's opinion on this. It looks pretty cut-and-dry that I am correct here. Do they even have a leg to stand on?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
A) use the vacation days
B) sue them
c) stop whinning.

use one of the obove choices.


 

prvteye2003

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2003
3,876
1
0
Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
cut and dry.

contact state labor department for help if needed.

Yes, contact state labor board and take that page to work with you and show them. If they still insist on this practice, threaten to sue them for it. One thing you don't mess with is someone's money.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Stop whining? What they are doing is illegal. I'm entitled to 17 days of vacation a yearm and can carry over 3. Last year I had 6 left at the end of the year, so I lost 3 of them. I take vacation, but I should not lose what I don't take, it is protected by law.
 

Originally posted by: Psorak
Go on vacation you cheapskate

I agree. Although I do think you have a case, just take 3 days off and make a 5 day weekend outta it. Relax a bit and enjoy, while your co-workers suffer!
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
I'd hire a lawyer for my soon-to-be former employer and start looking for a new job.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
sue them if u no longer wants to work there

take the vacation if u still want to work there

simple..
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
looks to me like you have them by the balls, dont know what you want to do but i woudl comforomt them with this and say if you dint get you monry that you were going to go to court
 

Joker81

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2000
1,281
0
0
Im not a lawyer but I think. You can't legally sign a contract that you give up certain rights bestowed upon you. So legally even if you signed the contract you are still entitled to that what the law says.
 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
0
I dunno if you are right or not, but I would damn sure have more evidence than a DOL FAQ that the law was on my side. You best be prepared for a career change.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
You are 100% in the right.

Sticky situation - I'd want my money but I also wouldn't want to piss off my superiors.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Hmm... That's my company's policy. We can't even carry any over. Use it or lose it.

You're in Utah, this is California law.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,972
592
136
Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Hmm... That's my company's policy. We can't even carry any over. Use it or lose it.

Thats most companies policies, tho one of my previous jobs had the BEST plan..... the Stay Healthy plan... any sick days/vacation that was unused at the end of the year got DOUBLE paid.
 

AvesPKS

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
4,729
0
0
That's awesome, because that means every federal employee in California does not have to follow the "use or lose" leave policy. How does that work, though? Can California tell the federal government that it's policies are illegal?
 

Drakkon

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
8,401
1
0
Civil Code 3513 states that "...a law established for a public reason cannot be contravened by a private agreement."
I dunno how "cut and dry" this is...That statement is the thing that will be in contention...you'll have to fight that vacation by california law is a public matter while the company will fight that its a private matter. Private contracts are tricky...theres all sorts of laws reguarding private contracts so that they can pretty much put whatever in there even if it is illegal and once you sign you give up your rights in there. I'd be careful and look through the rest of the handbook to see what rules and regulations you gave up by signing and if u have a leg to stand on in court against them if it comes to that, they might just have provisions in there against that as well. I hate finding little things like that in my contract only after singing it....all these places make u think you must sign everything right away or you wont get the job. Thats just wrong...especially when it comes to these handbooks that can be 100's of pages and they give you 10 mins to fill out the paperwork.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
What a pointless law. Why do states insist on "protecting" people from things they shouldn't need protection from?
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Originally posted by: mugs
What a pointless law. Why do states insist on "protecting" people from things they shouldn't need protection from?

It's just California. CA is the most expensive state in the nation to run a business in because of bullsh!t laws and regulations.