My comparison of a 09 corolla to a 08 mazda 3

[StageLeft]

First, not sure exactly on which model but both were manual tranny. The corolla was low-end, the mazda 3 less so (maybe 165 horses or something).

Anyway, fvck me, that corolla is crap. You show me a person who buys a new corolla and there is a person who literally hates driving. The last car I had with that much slop in the steering wheel was a river barge. Truly an insane amount of slop. And the drivetrain. Oh man, it's not that the power wasn't great (which I wouldn't expect from an entry econobox), but it just sounded so bad. The closest approximation is this is the sound I'd expect a soviet era passenger car to sound like, buzzy and vibrating like a seal was going to break at any time and oil spewing everywhere. The car was quite new and well cared for, this is just how they are.

It really is a shame people actually buy those things with so many other cars on the road to choose from. I'm sure their quality is great but nothing else about them is. It takes the concept of reliable transport from a to b to a level that should not cost anywhere what people really pay for these.

 

[ElFenix]

had a rental camry last week and i was amazed that you could easily turn the wheel lock to lock while stopped. no connection at all between the wheel and the tires.

 

[franksta]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
had a rental camry last week and i was amazed that you could easily turn the wheel lock to lock while stopped. no connection at all between the wheel and the tires.

It has power steering, does it not?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: franksta

Originally posted by: ElFenix
had a rental camry last week and i was amazed that you could easily turn the wheel lock to lock while stopped. no connection at all between the wheel and the tires.

It has power steering, does it not?

yes, but it was still amazingly disconnected.

 

[zerocool84]

I don't know why people here say the Mazda 3 handles great and is tight. Everyone I've driven was soft and sloppy. Not as soft as something like a Corolla but everyone here makes it seem like it's a great handler when it feel just like a normal car.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

whoa whoa whoa.
toyota makes manual cars???

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I don't know why people here say the Mazda 3 handles great and is tight. Everyone I've driven was soft and sloppy. Not as soft as something like a Corolla but everyone here makes it seem like it's a great handler when it feel just like a normal car.

It definitely probably depends on the trim level (i or s). My previous car was a Mazda6S and it handled very well and didn't have much body roll. On a number of occasions, I rented a Mazda6i and was very dissapointed with the interior (very low quality) and the ride was mushy.

If the 3 is similar, this might be why. A co-worker has the Mazda3S (2007 or 2008?) and it feels very firm and responsive.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I don't know why people here say the Mazda 3 handles great and is tight. Everyone I've driven was soft and sloppy. Not as soft as something like a Corolla but everyone here makes it seem like it's a great handler when it feel just like a normal car.

It definitely probably depends on the trim level (i or s). My previous car was a Mazda6S and it handled very well and didn't have much body roll. On a number of occasions, I rented a Mazda6i and was very dissapointed with the interior (very low quality) and the ride was mushy.

If the 3 is similar, this might be why. A co-worker has the Mazda3S (2007 or 2008?) and it feels very firm and responsive.

My mom has a Mazda 6S and it feels extremely soft. I drive it very often and it feels like a family sedan and don't feel any sportiness at all.

 

[woodie1]

Yep, I understand that even the 2009 Toyota Corolla XRS is no drivers' car. It has the Camry engine (2.4-liter four-banger, 158HP) and can be ordered with a 5-speed manual but is sorely lacking in the handling department.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: franksta

Originally posted by: ElFenix
had a rental camry last week and i was amazed that you could easily turn the wheel lock to lock while stopped. no connection at all between the wheel and the tires.

It has power steering, does it not?

yes, but it was still amazingly disconnected.

If it has electric power steering (my car does too) there is a feeling of "vagueness", not much road feedback in my car at all but you sure can wheel through a parking lot with it!..

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I don't know why people here say the Mazda 3 handles great and is tight. Everyone I've driven was soft and sloppy. Not as soft as something like a Corolla but everyone here makes it seem like it's a great handler when it feel just like a normal car.

Don't know what was up with the ones you drove, but the "S" trim is pretty dialed in for an ecomony car. Even my Mazda5 (mini-van version of a 3) is pretty sharp handling compared to a lot of cars. I had a 3s 5-door prior to the Mz5 and I've taken that car through some mountain runs at speeds I wouldn't have even dreamed of taking a more pedestrian car like a Corolla or an Impala.

You drive an SRT-4 right? I'd imagine just about anything short of true sports car would feel soft compared to that.

 

[punjabiplaya]

my mom got a mazda3 i Touring. And she noted immediately that the steering was much more responsive than any vehicles that she had owned/driven in the past. When I got my car (a Mazdaspeed3) someone asked if it even had power steering since the steering is heavy. I love it, it's very responsive and provides so much feedback. I haven't driven a corolla (why the hell would I want to) but we had some family friends shopping for a new car and they particularly noted that the steering was vague and lifeless.

 

[caspur]

This is in response to all the posts regarding Toyota steering feel. They are all calibrated the same. Camry, Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, whatever, they all feel alike. Its carefully designed to appease the segment that Toyota designs these cars for. I don't know if the general population gets the seat time where they can appreciate that, but you are seeing Toyota's kaizen at work. They've made an appliance that sells very well...they have successfully interpreted the desires of the automotive market and their profits are a direct result of that.

And for you Mazda fanboys, the Mazda steering feels like shit after 30k miles. I'm sorry to say it, really...because they are pretty good when they are new. But they just don't hold up in fleet duty compared to the other manufacturers. I still like the smiley faced Mazda 3 though, and I did drive one last week. I'm eagerly anticipating the new Miatas which should be in the fleet by spring.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: caspur
This is in response to all the posts regarding Toyota steering feel. They are all calibrated the same. Camry, Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, whatever, they all feel alike. Its carefully designed to appease the segment that Toyota designs these cars for. I don't know if the general population gets the seat time where they can appreciate that, but you are seeing Toyota's kaizen at work. They've made an appliance that sells very well...they have successfully interpreted the desires of the automotive market and their profits are a direct result of that.

And for you Mazda fanboys, the Mazda steering feels like shit after 30k miles. I'm sorry to say it, really...because they are pretty good when they are new. But they just don't hold up in fleet duty compared to the other manufacturers. I still like the smiley faced Mazda 3 though, and I did drive one last week. I'm eagerly anticipating the new Miatas which should be in the fleet by spring.

Toyota does do well what it tries to do, which is sell reliable cars, no argument there.

BTW, this thing had much worse steering than my 04 MPV which has over 80k on it now, and I do mean that. I bet it would take corners better than the van, but my van's steering is more precise. And I would never have called a five year old MPV's steering precise until I drove the corolla.

 

[sdifox]

bloody double poste

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: caspur
This is in response to all the posts regarding Toyota steering feel. They are all calibrated the same. Camry, Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, whatever, they all feel alike. Its carefully designed to appease the segment that Toyota designs these cars for. I don't know if the general population gets the seat time where they can appreciate that, but you are seeing Toyota's kaizen at work. They've made an appliance that sells very well...they have successfully interpreted the desires of the automotive market and their profits are a direct result of that.

And for you Mazda fanboys, the Mazda steering feels like shit after 30k miles. I'm sorry to say it, really...because they are pretty good when they are new. But they just don't hold up in fleet duty compared to the other manufacturers. I still like the smiley faced Mazda 3 though, and I did drive one last week. I'm eagerly anticipating the new Miatas which should be in the fleet by spring.

My 02 Protégé5 steering did not change for the 7 years that I had it and I did 171k km in it.

 

[BassBomb]

Corolla sucks balls

I was cross-shopping a 2009 Corolla (in 2008) vs a 2008 Civic... the difference was substantially in the Civic's favor

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: caspur
This is in response to all the posts regarding Toyota steering feel. They are all calibrated the same. Camry, Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, whatever, they all feel alike. Its carefully designed to appease the segment that Toyota designs these cars for. I don't know if the general population gets the seat time where they can appreciate that, but you are seeing Toyota's kaizen at work. They've made an appliance that sells very well...they have successfully interpreted the desires of the automotive market and their profits are a direct result of that.

And for you Mazda fanboys, the Mazda steering feels like shit after 30k miles. I'm sorry to say it, really...because they are pretty good when they are new. But they just don't hold up in fleet duty compared to the other manufacturers. I still like the smiley faced Mazda 3 though, and I did drive one last week. I'm eagerly anticipating the new Miatas which should be in the fleet by spring.

My 02 Protégé5 steering did not change for the 7 years that I had it and I did 171k km in it.

Yeah that struck me as odd as well. I've never driven a vehicle that had a different steering feel after such a short amount of time. As long as the power steering rack works within spec, and no components have been damaged, things should be fine for a pretty long damned time. The most common causes for a change in steering feel is in the alignment (caster, camber, toe), and the condition of the tires. If it's something beyond that, you're talking suspension components or the chassis itself becoming bent/loose.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I don't know why people here say the Mazda 3 handles great and is tight. Everyone I've driven was soft and sloppy. Not as soft as something like a Corolla but everyone here makes it seem like it's a great handler when it feel just like a normal car.

None of these people have ever driven a real sports car that's why.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I don't know why people here say the Mazda 3 handles great and is tight. Everyone I've driven was soft and sloppy. Not as soft as something like a Corolla but everyone here makes it seem like it's a great handler when it feel just like a normal car.

None of these people have ever driven a real sports car that's why.

I had a mazda 3 rental a few months ago and it wallowed about just as much as my cobalt did, I didnt understand it either, it was the 3S too. The only econobox car that i've driven with decent handling is the Jetta.

 

[brblx]

or maybe you've never driven an economy sedan there, high roller. ;P

the mazda 3, as well as the other cars on its platform (mazda 5, volvo s40, volvo c30) has a fairly firm ride and stays a lot flatter in corners that most other econoboxes. whether or not this actually translates to better handling is debatable (probably not many 15-20k sedan track tests), i can see why most 'enthusiasts' would prefer the feel of the mazda to the general vague floaty feeling of most toyotas.

 

[superunknown98]

I daily drive a Honda S2000, and thought the '10 mazda 3i was pretty fun. Granted the steering was light and precise but I wouldn't say the steering had much road feel. I thougt it was a decent car.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: brblx
or maybe you've never driven an economy sedan there, high roller. ;P

the mazda 3, as well as the other cars on its platform (mazda 5, volvo s40, volvo c30) has a fairly firm ride and stays a lot flatter in corners that most other econoboxes. whether or not this actually translates to better handling is debatable (probably not many 15-20k sedan track tests), i can see why most 'enthusiasts' would prefer the feel of the mazda to the general vague floaty feeling of most toyotas.

Hmm, there is a definite high handling ability for the Mazda3s for the class, although it's certainly not to the level of an Elise or whatnot.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/ar..._id=1376&page_number=2

Mazda 3s 65.2mph slalom, .84g skidpad

Compare to :

Chevy Cobalt 61.7mph slalom, .76g skidpad
Honda Civic 63.5mph slalom, .81g skidpad
Nissan Sentra 64.3mph slalom, .75g skidpad
Corolla S 63.3mph slalom, .83g skidpad
Ford Focus 65.0mph slalom, .80g skidpad

There were a lot of other economy cars to compare with, but

Of course, once you move up to cars beyond the $20k mark, you start seeing a lot of other contenders appear. Corolla XRS, Sentra SE-R, Civic Si, VW GTI, etc. And then the Speed3 comes on the scene, pretty much dominating everything but the brutally effective Cobalt SS.

sources:

http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...Tests/articleId=134506
http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2008/testdrive.html
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...Tests/articleId=119001
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...Tests/articleId=124046
http://blogs.insideline.com/ro...upe-track-testing.html

 

[helpme]

Originally posted by: caspur
This is in response to all the posts regarding Toyota steering feel. They are all calibrated the same. Camry, Corolla, Yaris, Matrix, whatever, they all feel alike. Its carefully designed to appease the segment that Toyota designs these cars for. I don't know if the general population gets the seat time where they can appreciate that, but you are seeing Toyota's kaizen at work. They've made an appliance that sells very well...they have successfully interpreted the desires of the automotive market and their profits are a direct result of that.

And for you Mazda fanboys, the Mazda steering feels like shit after 30k miles. I'm sorry to say it, really...because they are pretty good when they are new. But they just don't hold up in fleet duty compared to the other manufacturers. I still like the smiley faced Mazda 3 though, and I did drive one last week. I'm eagerly anticipating the new Miatas which should be in the fleet by spring.

All the toyotas sedans and minivans I've driven have really powerful power steering settings. Drive with one finger!

 

[Dman877]

Yeah my parents have had a couple prius', they drive like a golf cart.