My 'cheap' friend... and "would you buy an SSD from a company whos flash drive failed"?

[VirtualLarry]

So, I was talking with a friend last night. He was all excited about some "deals" he saw (probably on SD).

Talking about the 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 512GB that's on sale at Newegg for $150, the Intel 660p M.2 NVMe on sale for $91 or so after coupon at Newegg (it's QLC), and me, being so broke right now that I had to borrow $10 from him last night over Paypal, I currently have an un-opened Adata SX6000 512GB M.2 NVMe myself, that I told him he could have it for what I paid for it, which is $97 or so.

He said that he would probably go for the Intel drive (both my Adata and the Intel 660p have 5-year warranties), because it was the most reliable, and he could save $6 over buying mine. He didn't seem to be swayed by the fact that the Intel was using QLC 3D NAND, which is largely un-proven in the market thus far, and slower than either the Adata SX6000 or the Samsung 970 EVO.

I mean, it kinda burns my britches, knowing that I'm supposedly his friend, and that he would choose to buy a different SSD, just so he can save $6. Even though the SSD I'm selling, is currently "on sale" at Newegg for $129.99.

He basically told me that he's writing off Adata as a company, because one of his Adata flash drives (a cheap one) failed.

I think that he's being short-sighted, and that these things are built to a price-point, and I think that I had one of those cheap $6 flash drives fail too, but I'm not writing off Adata as a company, I still use their SSDs. (I don't think that I've had any of their SSDs fail on me yet.)

And yet, he would buy an Intel drive, when he's been railing AGAINST Intel for a number of years, having owned AMD CPUs for a while now.

I dunno, his "cheapness over all" blows my mind.

It's especially perplexing, when he buys vaping "mods", and one fails, so instead of swearing off that company, he buys another one, because.... they're cheap.

 

[ctbaars]

Are you just venting?
Let it go.
So? You have a part you don't need and can't unload on a friend.

 

[ElFenix]

you have friends that are so cheap that you call them cheap?!?

 

[DietDrThunder]

You should have offered it to him for $87 ($97 minus the $10 you owe him).

 

[ultimatebob]

If that was a 1 TB SSD, I would have taken it off of your hands. I've been meaning to replace the HDD on my old Dell desktop with an SSD of the same size to improve the performance of it.

 

[BurnItDwn]

People hold grudges. After my Crucial SSD Bricked, I got pissed off and had a rant or two and have bought multiple SSDs from multiple other brands, and more or less I avoid Crucial. Maybe in 10 years I'll give them another chance, but meh.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You should have offered it to him for $87 ($97 minus the $10 you owe him).

Well, I told him I'd still pay him back. I'm transferring some of my "reserve" BTC, so I can sell off $10 worth to pay him back ASAP.

Edit: I mean, don't get me wrong, he's a great guy and has been very supportive, and I don't begrudge him.

He did say that he probably wouldn't be buying any of those M.2 NVMe SSDs, so in the end, I don't think that he's buying the Intel, either. He likes to go through the motions of buying things, but unlike myself, generally, he never does.

 

[highland145]

you have friends ?!?

fixed

 

[Carson Dyle]

He basically told me that he's writing off Adata as a company, because one of his Adata flash drives (a cheap one) failed.

Everyone does that. The Kenmore washer fails after a year, you never buy another Kenmore product. The BMW goes through three transmissions, no more BMWs.

 

[highland145]

The BMW goes through three transmissions, no more BMWs.

Toyota. Problem solved.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Everyone does that. The Kenmore washer fails after a year, you never buy another Kenmore product. The BMW goes through three transmissions, no more BMWs.

That.

Also, if you're in a situation where you're having to borrow $10 to make it to the end of the week, you should be sympathetic to somebody who wants (needs?) to save $6 on an SSD when they can.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Oh yeah, I was just venting. Not trying to stab the guy in the back. (Don't think that I said anything bad about him, other than he was "cheap", but I think that he would take that as a badge of honor.)

I guess that you're right, Dave, but I could have lowered my price to the same price he was thinking of paying for the Intel, and he would have bought the Intel anyways, if he was in the market.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

...but I could have lowered my price to the same price he was thinking of paying for the Intel, and he would have bought the Intel anyways, if he was in the market.

Maaaybe... but then you're comparing two products at the same price, and one's got an Intel logo on it. I'd pick that one too.

What's Intel's reputation worth to a consumer? Different answer for everybody, yeah, but it's nonzero.

 

[Kaido]

I mean, it kinda burns my britches, knowing that I'm supposedly his friend, and that he would choose to buy a different SSD, just so he can save $6. Even though the SSD I'm selling, is currently "on sale" at Newegg for $129.99.

...

I dunno, his "cheapness over all" blows my mind.

That's pretty much the definition of being cheap - making illogical, bad decisions about spending money. Cheapness is different than being frugal. Being frugal is basically just babysitting your spending; being cheap has a negative connotation because it usually means you buy crap - not because you have to, per your budget, but because you choose to - and you do things like not tip or not tip well, even when the service is good.

It is important to take a step back & realize this aspect of your friend's personality - you can't change him. Some people just don't take logical approaches to things. Even if you gave him the extra $6 as a handout to help him buy the better one, he probably still wouldn't do it, lol. It's frustrating because you work at helping somebody & do all this research & find a good setup that meets the budget and then they go out into left field with their final decision. And of course, expect YOU to help them out later when things go haywire, lol.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, with all his talk about being pro-AMD APUs, I thought that he "hated" Intel.

It's frustrating because you work at helping somebody & do all this research & find a good setup that meets the budget and then they go out into left field with their final decision. And of course, expect YOU to help them out later when things go haywire, lol.

LOL. Yeah.

Did I mention I gave him an entire 2200G rig last month? I owed him a 240GB SSD under warranty, but I ended up giving him an entire PC. First thing he does, wipe Windows, and says he need to buy another motherboard. Because he says he doesn't like micro-ATX. Granted, it did have a Biostar A320 board on there, but he claims that he doesn't need or want to overclock at all, and it will handle faster RAM, so I don't really see what the problem is. He doesn't use a lot of add-on cards, nor any dGPU, no gaming or mining.

 

[olds]

People hold grudges. After my Crucial SSD Bricked, I got pissed off and had a rant or two and have bought multiple SSDs from multiple other brands, and more or less I avoid Crucial. Maybe in 10 years I'll give them another chance, but meh.

<--- Same with Crucial.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I mean, it kinda burns my britches, knowing that I'm supposedly his friend, and that he would choose to buy a different SSD, just so he can save $6. Even though the SSD I'm selling, is currently "on sale" at Newegg for $129.99.

He basically told me that he's writing off Adata as a company, because one of his Adata flash drives (a cheap one) failed.

First, your friend owes you nothing. Whether he could save $5 or $50 is irrelevant. He's free to buy what he wants from the store he wants at the price he wants, period.

Second, that's a perfectly valid reason for him not wanting to go near another Adata product. If I get a shitty product and the company leaves me hanging I won't buy anything from them again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Second, that's a perfectly valid reason for him not wanting to go near another Adata product. If I get a shitty product and the company leaves me hanging I won't buy anything from them again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

It's not like he paid for it, or tried to RMA it.

Flash drives die. Ball-point pens wear out. Shrug. it happens.

Edit: The point that I'm trying to make is, you don't buy a 12-pack of Sanford-brand Sharpies(tm), and when one wears out or the tip breaks down or it dries out, you don't say, "I'm going to swear off all Sanford writing instruments forever!". No, you take another Sharpie out of the pack, and go about your business.

Flash drives, unlike SSDs, are disposable. I keep a fresh stock on hand. My friend needs to have realistic expectations. If he paid $120 for the flash drive, a professional one with 128GB and USB 3.0 and encryption, yeah, I can understand why he'd be pissed. But I give him a cheap $6 16GB flash drive to use for installs, with the cheapest NAND on the market, and it dies after a few full re-writes, well, that's life.

It would be like me giving him a ball-point pen, and when it dies, he says, "I'm never going to use a Bic pen again!".

I mean, doesn't that seem silly to you?

This wasn't an SSD failure, this was a flash drive failure.

It's like another friend of mine, he resents replacing his HDD or PSU when they go out, like every 5-7 years, like they're supposed to last forever for him. (Or supposed to have a "forever warranty" through me, grr.)

 

[DaveSimmons]

I hesitate to buy a Sandisk SSD after having a 32 GB flash stick from them die on me within 6 months.

Also, for 500 GB and up there's usually no reason (for me) to not spend a little extra and get a Samsung or Crucial.

The cheaper brand might have a decent warranty but I'd rather not have the drive fail at all.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

It's not like he paid for it, or tried to RMA it.

Flash drives die. Ball-point pens wear out. Shrug. it happens.

Edit: The point that I'm trying to make is, you don't buy a 12-pack of Sanford-brand Sharpies(tm), and when one wears out or the tip breaks down or it dries out, you don't say, "I'm going to swear off all Sanford writing instruments forever!". No, you take another Sharpie out of the pack, and go about your business.

Flash drives, unlike SSDs, are disposable. I keep a fresh stock on hand. My friend needs to have realistic expectations. If he paid $120 for the flash drive, a professional one with 128GB and USB 3.0 and encryption, yeah, I can understand why he'd be pissed. But I give him a cheap $6 16GB flash drive to use for installs, with the cheapest NAND on the market, and it dies after a few full re-writes, well, that's life.

It would be like me giving him a ball-point pen, and when it dies, he says, "I'm never going to use a Bic pen again!".

I mean, doesn't that seem silly to you?

This wasn't an SSD failure, this was a flash drive failure.

It's like another friend of mine, he resents replacing his HDD or PSU when they go out, like every 5-7 years, like they're supposed to last forever for him. (Or supposed to have a "forever warranty" through me, grr.)

That is an idiotic analogy and I hope, deep down inside, you know that it's an idiotic analogy. I hate to think that you're actually stupid enough to equate a freaking 10 cent pen with a flash drive. Ball point pens eventually run out of ink if you're lucky enough to keep it that long without losing it. Flash drives don't wear out in normal use, I have one that's 10 years old and its fine.

If an Adata product that stores data fails prematurely that's a really strong, solid, sane and logical reason to not want to use other Adata products that store even more critical data. What part of that is truly beyond your understanding?

 

[VirtualLarry]

That is an idiotic analogy and I hope, deep down inside, you know that it's an idiotic analogy. I hate to think that you're actually stupid enough to equate a freaking 10 cent pen with a flash drive. Ball point pens eventually run out of ink if you're lucky enough to keep it that long without losing it. Flash drives don't wear out in normal use, I have one that's 10 years old and its fine.

If an Adata product that stores data fails prematurely that's a really strong, solid, sane and logical reason to not want to use other Adata products that store even more critical data. What part of that is truly beyond your understanding?

Uhh, that's why. 10-year old flash drives weren't highly cost-optimized, and used SLC or MLC flash memory.

Modern flash drives... are MUCH cheaper, and it shows. If you're constantly re-writing the drive, you'll be lucky to have it last six months. No joke.

Both ball-point pens, and flash drives, are disposable. Get over it.

Edit: And if you doubt me, google for "Flash drive read only after months". I'm sure that you'll get a few hits...

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Adata flash drives are high quality. Quite the opposite, in fact. They're cheap in the bulk combo deals from Newegg, and they have a very convenient writing space for a Sharpie (tm) on the back side. Perfect for OS / distro installation and boot USBs, that don't tend to get re-written much, but require decently high read speeds. I'm just saying that one needs to manage their expectations.

Edit: I mean, I guess, I just think my friend has illogical and stubborn thinking, at times. Like how he just can't stand having a micro-ATX mobo, he HAS to have an ATX. Why? I don't know, it's not like the mATX won't fit in his ATX case.

 

[BoomerD]

Toyota. Problem solved.

Never...I DO have some standards...(as low as they may be)

Anyway...for the OP...I'll almost always buy new rather than from someone else...if only because new comes with a warranty. Doesn't matter that yours is unused, unless it still has the bulk of the factory warranty, (and that warranty is valid for someone other than the original purchaser) it's worth MAYBE 50% of its new price.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Uhh, that's why. 10-year old flash drives weren't highly cost-optimized, and used SLC or MLC flash memory.

Modern flash drives... are MUCH cheaper, and it shows. If you're constantly re-writing the drive, you'll be lucky to have it last six months. No joke.

Both ball-point pens, and flash drives, are disposable. Get over it.

Edit: And if you doubt me, google for "Flash drive read only after months". I'm sure that you'll get a few hits...

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Adata flash drives are high quality. Quite the opposite, in fact. They're cheap in the bulk combo deals from Newegg, and they have a very convenient writing space for a Sharpie (tm) on the back side. Perfect for OS / distro installation and boot USBs, that don't tend to get re-written much, but require decently high read speeds. I'm just saying that one needs to manage their expectations.

Edit: I mean, I guess, I just think my friend has illogical and stubborn thinking, at times. Like how he just can't stand having a micro-ATX mobo, he HAS to have an ATX. Why? I don't know, it's not like the mATX won't fit in his ATX case.

"Disposable" tech is a privilege and prerogative of those wealthy enough to replace whatever they want, whenever they want. You might be able to keep TCO down over the long run with this attitude but you need to have the money liquid to do it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I guess... it's a tradeoff.

5-10 years ago, you could get, what, a 4GB or 8GB flash drive, for $25-30 retail? (Maybe more?)

Now you can get three 16GB USB3.0 Adata drives for anywhere from $11-16 on a combo special from Newegg, whenever they run it. (Monthly, usually.)

The older drives from 5-10 years ago, if they were still MLC (or SLC if they were fast USB2.0 drives), would likely still be running, but newer drives with cheap crap planar TLC with the controller chip embedded into the flash die, well, my estimate on their longevity is maybe a year or so, if you re-write them often. If you just "write once, read mostly", like on my installer USBs, I expect them to last a few years, but I've had a few glitch out eventually.

*shrug*

Am I being "extravagant", to think that flash drives are "disposable"? I know that they're not any good for long-term storage. (Don't try to keep data for more than a year on them, if they are TLC.)

Also, know that flash is "binned", and the lowest of the low, gets used in budget flash drives. The high-quality stuff gets used in SSDs.

You want a "durable" flash drive, get one with "SSD NAND", and a real "SSD controller / USB3.0 bridge" setup. You'll pay much, much more than a budget USB3.0 flash drive though.

 

[VirtualLarry]

"Disposable" tech is a privilege and prerogative of those wealthy enough to replace whatever they want, whenever they want. You might be able to keep TCO down over the long run with this attitude but you need to have the money liquid to do it.

LOL. Comedic point taken.